MikedaddyH Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 Dude clam down. I gave up comparing it to 6.8 a couple of post ago. The rounds may be moving forward in the mag as the rounds move upwards. Compare the heads and the shape of the brass and the wildcat rounds are nose heavy ! With less "round barrel" portion of the brass touching , movement is more likely to occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 27 minutes ago, MikedaddyH said: Dude clam down. I gave up comparing it to 6.8 a couple of post ago. The rounds may be moving forward in the mag as the rounds move upwards. Fuckin still going, without reading, Mike. I AM calm, by the way - you just don't read, and it's pretty damn frustrating. My rounds cannot physically move forward in the mag. That's due to the loaded length. BASED on the loaded length, they are DRAGGING in the mag. Now,how the fuk are they gonna move forward, when they're physically LONGER than mag length?... Riddle me that one... Go read my shiit again, Mike. For what it's worth, you NEVER gave up comparing it to the 6.8 - you kept going on the 6.8 up until right now, in your last post. I'll quote your shiit for you if you want to read it all in one post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 6 hours ago, 98Z5V said: Alright, I'm thinking... I effed up this load, and they're too long... Measure them ALL - either 2.260" or 2.259". Conclusion? Lancer L5AWM might be 2.272" at the mouth of the mag, but that fucker tapers down in the middle. Solution? Resize all the loaded ammo to 2.255". Done. Now, I go to load up that Lancer 30-round mag again - it was getting tight in the middle again, but it was easier to load. I stripped them all out, and they all came out, but somewhere around the middle of the mag, I had to give the mag a smack to get that next round up to the feedlips and strip it out. It was only a couple times. That's a big no-go in my book, if they're not gonna feed reliably. Solution? Downsize the ammo again? Maybe. I need to seat it all shorter, until all the rounds feed, and THEN duplicate the load testing again, at shorter seated lengths. Fuk me... Or, try a Lancer 20-rounder. Okay, I did that, and the rounds are kinda tight in there, but they all stripped out okay, even loaded now at 2.255" COL. I'll shoot that mag and see if rifle recoil is enough to keep bouncing them all up to the top... Hey, there's a Gen 3 PMag 20 - load it all up fine, they all strip out easily - like normal. Testing that one today, too. Oh, there's 2 x Gen 2 PMag 20 - let's load 'em. Okay, issues in one, but not the other... Hmmm... Look at them closely, and see what it is - bumps on the sides of the mags, at the top, and the little protrusion that separates rounds at the top of the mag. "Massage" them a little with the knife, and they load and strip just fine. ^^^ This right here is the critical part of what I found, what I came up with, and what will work. From loading 2.260" during an accuracy test, to loading live ammo at 2.260" into a 30-round mag... You didn't read that Mike. I wasn't looking for help, solutions, offers, advice - I was documenting what I found, and what I'm doing about it to solve the problem I found, already analyzed, and the solutions I already came up with. I wasn't asking for any help, Mike. And then, here you come. 6.8ammo, modified followers, only load a half a mag, feed lips, etc. That shiit doesn't pertain to this round, Mike. At all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Annealed some brass tonight , 20 FC .223 , 20 PMC .223 , & 20 LC & also some 308 . I couldn't wait till they dried completely off , took two , one PMC & one FC & cleaned the Shoulder area of any left over Temp. indicator paint & lubed them up , then sized them or formed them , easy deal , I noticed that it looks like the FC brass is thicker even after forming , but no cracks or splits & the SS Tumbling , will make them look real pretty , if the $hit don't fuk up on me again . The polished look is from fine steel wool , to wipe any remaining Temp. Paint marks off the case . Formed PMC next to a FC .223 case FC after forming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 98 , are you trimming the Formed brass or are you waiting to fire form the Brass to your Chamber . I don't recall seeing a " Trim to length " any where or are we using .223 length measurement ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, survivalshop said: 98 , are you trimming the Formed brass or are you waiting to fire form the Brass to your Chamber . I don't recall seeing a " Trim to length " any where or are we using .223 length measurement ? Just went with the .223 Rem/5.56mm trim length of 1.760.Since mine were all once-fired, I didn't even measure them before reforming into 25-45. I just reformed, loaded, and went with it, for this round of ammo. All fired brass I have on hand now, I will measure, and see how much they've grown after their first 5.56 fire, then this reform and fire. I'll report any weird shiit. After reforming into 25-cal, and after passing them through the resize/decap die, I DID inner chamfer them all with a VLD chamfer tool, before loading any powder or projectiles. That dummy round I made up showed some slight signs of copper shaving around the case rim. Solution was VLD chamfer. Not necessarily because it needs a VLD chamfer, but because that tool has never failed me on the 300BLK brass-making... Didn't outer chamfer at all. Went with it. Edited April 27, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) Started this just to see the difference between the impact of 5.56 ammo vs. 25-45 ammo. Had a temporary scope on the 25-45, so I had to zero the little bastard for that rifle. I had all good intentions of doing this prone, bipod, and slinged up, but I had to setup slightly uphill - once I checked targets again, there was a rise between me and the targets... So, improvise. I had to shoot this sitting, legs crossed, with the rifle on bipod, ON the range box. No other way to see the target, besides completely move everything. No one was there when I got there, initially - bunch of fuckers were there when it was time to pull the trigger for the first time. FUk me. After zero on the 25-45, I went to the 5.56 from the Mk12. 10 rounds of 55gr Hornady FMJ BT going 3100fps, then 10 rounds of Prvi Partizan 69gr OTM going 2855fps, then 10 round of Ultramax 75gr Heavy Match OTM going 2650fps. Rifle change and bipod swap led me to 20 rounds of the 25-45, 90gr SGK HPBT over 23.1gr RL-7, estimated 2815fps. The steel swings different on those last 20, and I've got some interesting pics... First round impact about 1:40 in the vid, so you can skip forward... I didn't shoot the GoPro. WAY happy about that. More to come... Edited April 27, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) Vicious wind shift, when you watch the dust in the video... Fukkin sucked... Totally missed the 10th round on the 75gr OTMs... Blew that shiit... Edited April 27, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Here's the initial layout, and the ammo used for 5.56 - minus the 55gr handloaded Hornady 55gr FMJ BTs. The layout didn't work with the terrain, though. I wanted prone, loaded bipod, but that wasn't happening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Standing up, the targets looked good - I even got low,and they looked good. Prone, all I saw was dirt rise in front of me, and the top zero target. Fuk,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 This ended up being the shooting position - bipod on range box, sitting legs crossed, grabbing the left bipod leg to pull it into me. I couldn't load the bipod on that box, so I had to load the bipod with ME... Shiit again... Not ideal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 The steel took some punishment - a couple of the 25-cal rounds hit hard enough to knock the paint off the BACK of the target. I didn't see this until I got home... THE BACK OF THE TARGET... This round performs, I'll say that. I'll get into magazine shiit tomorrow night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 You gotta get you some Allen Shooting Bags for support brother, they'll make a world of difference in what you can & can't make a supported position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said: You gotta get you some Allen Shooting Bags for support brother, they'll make a world of difference in what you can & can't make a supported position. I got it done, ya product-pimpin' bastage! I definitely DO need a rear bag. You're right. My shooting position ended up being SO fucked up today, all based on terrain "that looked good..." We been there. We been Chollo'd for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Today reinforced something - can't always have "perfect." You WANT the perfect firing position, you WANT the perfect support, you WANT.... whatever... ...and you have to deal with the shiit that you're dealt, and either hit it or not. Everyone of those hits was a kill radius on deer vitals, and pretty damn close to a 5" circle on a coyote's vitals, despite all the shiit out there. I can live with that, ideal or not. I don't necessarily like it, but I'll take it home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 I chamfered the Brass before I formed it ( inside & outside the case mouth ) , seemed like a good idea , not sure if it makes a difference or not . My thinking was I wanted as clean of an entry into the Forming process as I could . I will clean & form the rest today & I'm going to weigh them , sort them after SS tumbling . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Just measured some sized 25-45 Sharps cases , & all were well under the 1.750" trim to length , most were around 1.730's". Maybe after fire forming they might grow enough to trim . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Shoot, I didn't even bother measuring them after forming. I'll get some numbers tonight. Right now, I don't have any formed brass that hasn't been fired - I've got the brass that's been fired as a 25-45 it's first time. Everything that turned into 25-45 got loaded right away. I have about 150 total cases now. 300 more getting ready - tumbling 5.56 brass... I'll get the magazine into up tonight, too. Bottom line on mags, and loading longer than (or at) 2.255" - 20 rounders: Gen 3 PMags work, Lancer 20s work, Gen 2 PMags will work if you hit a couple key areas. I'll test 30-rounders next time I'm out with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: I'll get the magazine into up tonight, too. Bottom line on mags, and loading longer than (or at) 2.255" - 20 rounders: Gen 3 PMags work, Lancer 20s work, Gen 2 PMags will work if you hit a couple key areas. I'll test 30-rounders next time I'm out with it. That seems to be exactly the results I found with 300BO as far as which mags work best, wish I'd have known before I had all the 30 round Gen 2 Pmags cerakoted to match the 300BO, looking forward to seeing your mods, maybe I can salvage them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) Measured all 40 pieces of brass that was fired yesterday - they were all arouns 1.740~1.745",only a few weird ones outside of that range. Two were over 1.760", so they're getting trimmed. Measured the 5.56 that was fired yesterday - consistently 1.757" or 1.758". I'll measure these individually before I resize them, and after I resize them. Magazines... So, of the 20-rounders, here's what works, without messing with them, with a loaded length of 2.255" or under: Lancer L5AWM 20-rounders Gen 3 PMag 20-rounders Here's the kicker on the Gen 2 PMag 20-rounders - I'll post a pic of the Gen 2 and Gen 3 (fwiw, Gen 1 and Gen 2 are the same...), but pay close attention to the FDE ones - those are the Gen 2 mags. Look at all the casting flash and that nub on the sides... Edited April 28, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) They put that little "separating tab" or whatever it is, right in the middle. Casting flash all over those things, and I never noticed it before - didn't have a need to. That little nub on the sides kicks the round right into that tab in the middle, and the hollow points on my loads were getting stuck on the tab, and in the casting flash. So first off, all that casting flash has to get removed, smoothed down,sand-papered, whatever your choice - the casting flash has to go. THEN, that little nub on the sides has to go - just knock it down flush with the rest of the stuff so it doesn't stick out like that. I used my knife and shaved it off. Used my knife on the casting flash, too. Once I did that, the rounds fed through the mag like a dream. That bottom pic is the Gen 3 PMag 20 - the pushed that little center tab further down in the magazine body, and those nubs on the sides are even more aggressive - didn't have to do anything to this mag, and it fed a full mag just fine. Those aggressive nubs don't matter, because they pushed that centering tab further down - the nubs actually kick the next (top) round towards the center of the chamber. So, work the little Gen 2 mags a little bit, and they'll feed fine, out to 2.255" COL. Edited April 28, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 After modification: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted April 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) Those Guides on the side of the Mag are what was causing issues with certain Bullets in the 300 BLK & had to be altered . I never had that issue , but don't or never tried the Bullets that had the issue . Man, you really take up all that room in the mag. @ that COL. . I think I will start a little less . Could you take a photo of a 5.56/.223 in the mag next to the 25-45 . Like the one above . I'm going to order some 25-45 Sharps brass today from SRC , just to see what their length is , not that the minor length is an issue , just curious . My LE Wilson Case Head space Gage is back ordered also , kinda pissed about it , that's makes two things that were shown in stock & didn't ship . Edited April 28, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted April 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 Damn their Brass is expensive , & shipping on loaded ammo is a little high , I'm not ordering $150+ so no free shipping , so I'm going to pass on both for now . I did find that LC brass will need to be trimmed slightly after sizing . Before sizing ----------------- after sizing FC - 1.740" 1.735" LC - 1.759" 1.751" I have RP yet to do & may even do some Wolf Brass , just for the hell of it . Seems to shorten the case after forming , I may just go with the LC as a final Brass alternative . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 16 hours ago, survivalshop said: Could you take a photo of a 5.56/.223 in the mag next to the 25-45 . Like the one above . Here they be. Had to find an unmolested Gen 2 PMag 20 to load the 5.56 into. I'm going to modify all of them, so I never have an issue. Before I mid the one in the pic, I'm going to load up some 300BLK 150gr Hornady FMJ BT loads that I've got,and see if/what the interference is. NOTE: I don't doubt for a second that MagPul changed that center tab location (going lower) because of the prevalence of 300BLK... 25-45 and 5.56 here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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