bfoosh006 Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) mk Edited July 30, 2018 by bfoosh006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Man, I've been all over this since November, from the Fall Shoot. PSA is fucking this up bad. Here's some recent info: To complicate things even further, it looks like they did an interim switch to the (too long, internal depth) almost-AR-10 Carbine style, and were still shipping the DPMS-based LR buffers... Long tube + short buffer = BCGs crashing into the ears on lower receivers... Awesome, PSA. Great work, guys. So far, based on two recorded accounts, and one I personally measured, those new-ish carbine receiver extensions are between 7 7/8" internal depth and 8"internal depth - both TOO LONG for the Armalite-based parts. Correct internal depth to run those parts should be 7 5/8". PSA doesn't know what the hell they're doing with the buffer springs, either... My $0.02, based on what I saw, and what's been reported here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 That new buffer they're shipping is fucked, too - for a 308AR Carbine recoil system, it should be H3-weighted, minimum. Those buffers they are shipping are light. H at best, and unmarked means "standard" AR-15 carbine buffer weight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted January 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 I will weigh the "New" buffer and measure the tubes depth. I completely agree with the H3 minimum. I will also check the potential over travel with the BCG in the "New" tube... ( the over travel part that breaks bolt releases ) I am really beginning to think PSA is not building their sold product.... seriously... I suspect it is just like their parts supply chain... MANY different companies. I have so much more first hand contact with PSA CS that I haven't shared yet... mostly because it isn't polite. I have posted my comment from here in another webpages industry forum, on PSA's sub forum webpage. There are just to many hands in the PSA pot for anything to go right. ..And PSA can't possibly be the only hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted January 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 And I meant to add, in context to the "who makes the PSA product" comments.... IMHO, if someone else is making assembling the uppers / rifles... that would also help explain the odd / never quite makes sense shipping times for various uppers and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted January 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Oops ... edit to add... I have never been able to speak with anyone in the Assembly Dept / Gunsmithing area... ever ... almost like they aren't in the same general property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted January 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Specific questions require a few days to receive a response from the assemble folks, and even then it typically is completely wrong. Even the CS answers are "odd" ... Answers like "we don't show that in our cataloged system / for sale system"... The armorer's are not here... That part doesn't exist... I went through that while looking for a missing part on a complete PSA upper, a part that came on numerous other PSA uppers set up from them with the same parts. Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwrench Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 The only contact I can make after a lot of searching on the internet is the alleged Customer Service Dept. The same alleged cs answered an email that with some white noise reply, my reply to them ( not so white noise) was replyed with cs was the only point of contact. I sent an information inquiry to them before Christmas and have gotten no reply yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwrench Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Like I posted in the intro section my upper came complete and my lower I found at a retailer. They had been carrying it for a while. The receiver extension on it is marked PA-1 and is 7 7/8 but now has three quarters to bring it to 7 5/8. The buffer is marked "H". How did you get past cs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted January 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 CS Manager / Supervisor. ...Lol, even then you NEED to follow up. For various reasons. IE ... if you don't get a contact e-mail from the supervisor... you may not have spoken to a Supervisor.... so be sure to get an e-mail address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted January 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) mk Edited July 30, 2018 by bfoosh006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) This is what happens when you don't have in house R and D and Product Development. I am guessing that they switched suppliers on the buffer tubes and buffers and someone "assumed" old and new suppliers were the same spec. The company manufacturing them might well have gone out and bought an Armalite and copied the buffer system without realizing DPMS and Armalite and PSA were different. Such schlock things do happen. As attractive as the prices, as long as they are "proprietary" and depending on other manufacturers, I am staying away. Edited January 7, 2018 by Sisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 15 minutes ago, Sisco said: , I am staying away They keep offering them cheap and I might jump in, these gentlemen seem to have done most of the leg work required to get them running now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, jtallen83 said: They keep offering them cheap and I might jump in, these gentlemen seem to have done most of the leg work required to get them running now! Having proprietary parts and multiple suppliers of them is difficult unless you have a well coordinated product development team who is in constant contact with all their suppliers. it sounds like they are getting different spec parts from different people and trying to make it work. Not a good situation. I would let it shake out a while at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 hours ago, Sisco said: Having proprietary parts and multiple suppliers of them is difficult unless you have a well coordinated product development team who is in constant contact with all their suppliers. it sounds like they are getting different spec parts from different people and trying to make it work. Not a good situation. I would let it shake out a while at least. IMHO, PSA counts on no one noticing the changes. Even the HP Bolt and small diameter FP has been quietly handled.... and quite effectively. I will still buy from them... but , wow... talk about shooting from the hip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mley1 Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 One question. If you buy a complete PA10 lower, and match it up with any PA10 upper in any caliber, will it work? Seems to me that it should. I think where problems arise is when people try building from scratch using PSA parts. It's more difficult to match up the parts that will work together. Or, am I wrong in that assessment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 i wont gamble on pa10.. i have several ar15 variants from them that work great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 You get what you pay for in almost anything . With the AR 15 types , they are using MilSpec components , pretty easy to get them to work properly. It seems they are getting or having made to their spec's , Proprietary components , we don't know what they use for the Receiver's dimensions for the machining of them & that can make any normal LR 308 /AR 10 type components to have issues trying to work with them . It seems to be a crap shoot on what you get , we do have some working just fine . R&D is the key to any production Firearm , for non Gunsmith assemblers , to build these Rifles . It could also be they are in over their head at this time & cant keep up with demand , cutting corners with suppliers or just sloppy Quality Control . Its not just PA , I just read on the M14 forum where some are having issues with a after market builder of M14/M1A 's & they were bringing up QA seems non existent with this Manufacturer ( not SA ) , so it just may be demand & lack of resources ( R&D, personal training , etc ) & the demand for these type Rifles may be contributing to these issues . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/8/2018 at 9:54 AM, mley1 said: One question. If you buy a complete PA10 lower, and match it up with any PA10 upper in any caliber, will it work? Seems to me that it should. I think where problems arise is when people try building from scratch using PSA parts. It's more difficult to match up the parts that will work together. Or, am I wrong in that assessment? I think its a crap shoot......like already said the buffer spring and all that is crazy mixed up and that's where the pew pew or no pew pew happens Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mley1 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 14 hours ago, washguy said: I think its a crap shoot......like already said the buffer spring and all that is crazy mixed up and that's where the pew pew or no pew pew happens Wash Yes, I agree if you buy one of the rifle kits without the lower, and then try to integrate parts not designed to work together. However, it sure looks like if you were to buy a complete lower, and match it to an upper, it should work fine. Where I see folks having trouble is trying to match up parts when they build from scratch. With that said, I did have to tune my rig a bit. With regard to the buffer, spring and tube, I had to add a quarter behind the spring to keep the bcg from hitting the re. No big deal if you know what to look for. Plus, I had to install an adjustable gas block on the upper due to it being over gassed. Again, no big deal if you know what to do. I don't know. It just seems to me that if you have a complete lower, with parts designed to work together in that lower, it should work just fine when mated up to an upper. If I have to tweak it a little I'm ok with that. Where I'd be upset is if I got a complete lower, and the parts weren't designed to work together and the rifle was non functioning, and I couldn't get it to run. I may be in the minority with that feeling though. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliddriller Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) I have bought 4- pa 10’s from PSA. Yes their buffer system is odd. I changed out the buffer spring on most & went with a heavier buffer. No problem. For $480 delivered for a complete 308 i cannot complain. $50-$60 more & I have a great rifle. I of course change out the gas block for an adjustable ($40 at lj’s) run a heavy AR15 buffer then change out the spring to a flat wire. I also changed out the gas tube. They use ar15 gas tubes which are 1/4” shorter. I also changed out the delta for a free float rail. My friend uses his the way it came from factory & it works fine. Mine however have lighter recoil from the changes that have been made. (Also I believe i could get one to work as is from psa but i want lighter recoil therefor the mods) Edited January 10, 2018 by Soliddriller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliddriller Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, mley1 said: Yes, I agree if you buy one of the rifle kits without the lower, and then try to integrate parts not designed to work together. However, it sure looks like if you were to buy a complete lower, and match it to an upper, it should work fine. Where I see folks having trouble is trying to match up parts when they build from scratch. With that said, I did have to tune my rig a bit. With regard to the buffer, spring and tube, I had to add a quarter behind the spring to keep the bcg from hitting the re. No big deal if you know what to look for. Plus, I had to install an adjustable gas block on the upper due to it being over gassed. Again, no big deal if you know what to do. I don't know. It just seems to me that if you have a complete lower, with parts designed to work together in that lower, it should work just fine when mated up to an upper. If I have to tweak it a little I'm ok with that. Where I'd be upset is if I got a complete lower, and the parts weren't designed to work together and the rifle was non functioning, and I couldn't get it to run. I may be in the minority with that feeling though. I don't know. I’ve also bought a psa lower then a psa upper & they match up. I recommend buying PA 10’s. Their price point Is attractive ($480-$500 wow). Now will It function for you right out of the box? I don’t know. But i do know for a little extra $ you can get a decent 308 for total $600?? That beats anyone anywhere (If your willing to work with it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Way to go Driller ! you have 4 that you got running fine ...kudos to you .....you have a great handle on their weird buffer system Good work! Wash Edited January 10, 2018 by washguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) On 1/6/2018 at 10:58 PM, 98Z5V said: Man, I've been all over this since November, from the Fall Shoot. PSA is fucking this up bad. Here's some recent info: To complicate things even further, it looks like they did an interim switch to the (too long, internal depth) almost-AR-10 Carbine style, and were still shipping the DPMS-based LR buffers... Long tube + short buffer = BCGs crashing into the ears on lower receivers... Awesome, PSA. Great work, guys. So far, based on two recorded accounts, and one I personally measured, those new-ish carbine receiver extensions are between 7 7/8" internal depth and 8"internal depth - both TOO LONG for the Armalite-based parts. Correct internal depth to run those parts should be 7 5/8". PSA doesn't know what the hell they're doing with the buffer springs, either... My $0.02, based on what I saw, and what's been reported here... I have to say.... I never even considered looking for this parts change. I mean no one does this... except PSA. ..... as others have said... PSA clearly has no in house R&D, and just buys stuff kind of higgledy- pigglyed. Again, where are PSA armorers ? Edited January 12, 2018 by bfoosh006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) One also has to remember that what you see & hear on these Forums is when shooters have issues with a Firearm & not too much on all the ones that work . That being said , the fact that any Manufacturer that offers a Firearm for 1/3 of what any other factory Firearms are selling for , to me, is cutting corners somewhere & that in itself turns me off . Not that I don't like inexpensive Firearms or that they are not up to par with the others , but it should make a buyer pause & think about it . Feel free to flame me , all you PSA 308AR owners Edited January 12, 2018 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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