Floydieguns Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 How many rounds have you all fired before the takedown pin bores began to elongate? When holding the rifle complete and assembled, the upper walks fore/aft. This check is performed by holding buttstock against a firm surface and pushing/pulling the handtube in same motion as the BCG travels. I have heard about some 'less service friendly' options. JP, Matrix. Possibly others. Anyone have experience with these takedown pins; More importantly, pictures of them? Matrix states something about threaded pins. Unfamiliar with either option. Am aware filler such as cerakote may be used to "bandaid". In additions, reasonable logic shows that peening and honing would be another viable solution. Fully disclosed, I am observing a minimal movement. Measurable between .015-.020", no failures or issues have come from this. Not enough to make an issues. Receivers only walk fore/aft at pins. No lateral or vertical play is found. A comment was made to me the other day. "How much have you shot this? It was not like this before." A friend was fondling and asked. I personally am not concerned, though have tossed the idea of selling one of my rifles and funding a different build. Digging in my surplus of parts, revelations of potentially lowcost build came to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Who made your upper and lower? If you have so much movement in your upper and lower, that it is causing an elongation of your takedown pin hole, you have some fitment issues. I have an AR built in .338 Lapua magnum, which delivers considerably more recoil than any standard cartridge, and the receiver shows no signs that it has been fired. My theory is, A) your lower receiver and your upper receiver do not mate well, or B) your lower receiver is not built to perform under the cycling stress of the caliber you're shooting. It’s entirely possible that your lower receiver is not strong enough (be it poor design or poor choice in metal) and that is causing a flex between the pistol grip and the stock. That little flex is causing the strain at the pin hole. This was a common area of failure for the original polymer lower receivers. You really only have two options… 1. Separate yourself from the rifle and make it somebody else’s issue. 2. Find a machinist that’s willing to do the work, and have him bore the hole out to a larger diameter and re-shim it with some kind of a bearing or other insert. JP makes a pin that will tighten that up, but that’s just a remedy to the symptoms and not a fix to the root issue. If your upper and lower are from the same company, or if you have an off-the-shelf rifle, you might be able to contact the manufacturer and get the parts replaced?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydieguns Posted March 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 It is a mated billet set from a company that no longer exists. When new in box - everything was very stiff and tight. In actuality the receiver kit was so stiff that it took effort to slide the upper and lower apart when neither pin was pressed in. Claimed to be made of 7075 series alloy. It is a minimal amount of movement. Only enough that under firm force the receiver will 'click' softly. The receiver visually shifts, not the pistol grip or threaded trunnion for receiver extension. I can see the upper sliding rearward, and only rearward. No vertical movement or lateral. Honestly, I had not even noticed until someone asked about it. This concern is minimal. It takes firmly holding the buttpiece to your shoulder while forcibly shoving the float tube forward and rearward. In a quiet room. Tomorrow I will use my mag block, secure the receiver to bench-vice, stick my magnetic base dial indicator on vice, zero and measure total movement. It may be less than .015".. However, with my aging eyes, I highly doubt my capabilities of seeing less than 0.010" of movement. Anodize has worn some, yes - however the question is.. How do your rifles get treated? This one has.. certainly seen the paces. Not unfamiliar to having two-hundred rounds pumped down it in less than ten minutes. It literally has been run. Not a 'bench top' rifle. I have considered sizing the bores with a gauge pin, then finding the next step up in 'over-sized' pins and reaming. There is nothing 'wrong' with the rifle. I put my 5oz weight in it, thing functions flawlessly unsuppressed. Change to 10oz weight, attach suppressor and still works as intended. While yes, I've chased my tail in the 'golden territory' for a well balanced open/suppressed gun with no adjustments.. That is something of it's own nature. A lot of people have gone down that trail. Which - Really is a royal pain. Even when using match loadings. Elevation or large temperature swings can make for finicky rifle. Just simply, I am very picky and due to my prior considerations of "sale" for funding a new toy.. I want it to go with good blessings, when leaving my shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Well unfortunately the company is out of business. You don’t seems too concerned (frankly I wouldn’t be either, have you ever handled a service rifle? .020 would be a match grade weapon!) If you use it as intended, which it sounds like you do, enjoy it until it present a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydieguns Posted March 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, edgecrusher said: Well unfortunately the company is out of business. You don’t seems too concerned (frankly I wouldn’t be either, have you ever handled a service rifle? .020 would be a match grade weapon!) If you use it as intended, which it sounds like you do, enjoy it until it present a problem. Hahahaha, someone who shares my sentiments! I am more or less concerned with, "how long is it taking you all to wear them out? Who has used oversized pins? What are these threaded pins Matrix receivers discuss on their webpage? What methods do you all use for service repair?" Hence, 'contemplated peening and reaming. Or, gauging and oversizing'. I prefer not to weld 7075. I could, but.. =/ Peening and honing would do, just.. the deformations are cosmetically noticed. Even after a cerakote application. Gauging and reaming seems reasonable, in-so-far there is a reasonable supply for appropriately sized pins. While I have the TIG and mill in shop, no lathe yet. Still a year or so out on that. All in all, I greatly appreciate all of you fine gentlemen(and/or gentle-ladies.. gotta be politically correct in this trans/altered/selected gender country nowdays) ---- Floydie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 18 minutes ago, Floydieguns said: I greatly appreciate all of you fine gentlemen(and/or gentle-ladies.. gotta be politically correct in this trans/altered/selected gender country nowdays) ---- Floydie Personally, I identify as the Black Hawk helicopter. You may use masculine pronouns to refer to me, but they must be written in all CAPS. Preferably in bold print, and one font size larger than the rest of the text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 PECKERFACE....that's a chicken, kinda like a black hawk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbas4570 Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 HAHHAHAAHHHAHAH!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Floydieguns said: I am more or less concerned with, "how long is it taking you all to wear them out? I've never worn out a receiver set. Not even on an issued Colt M4A1 that I had for 10 years. And it got the shiit shot out of it. It was rebarreled twice, but I never wore out receivers. My $0.02 on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Floydie " It is a minimal amount of movement. Only enough that under firm force the receiver will 'click' softly. The receiver visually shifts, not the pistol grip or threaded trunnion for receiver extension. I can see the upper sliding rearward, and only rearward. No vertical movement or lateral. " there are a few ways of reducing the dreaded wobble ive used both and it works...the third way is super secret and I cant divulge it on a public forum ....one way is got get you a #7 o ring if I remember correctly and put it over the front lug of the upper...yes you are slipping a round o ring over a square lug....it makes the fit really nice and tight...get more than one of the 7 cent o rings cause if you are opening and closing the upper a lot it will crap out on you after a while...it works fine... the number 2 way to tighten up the upper /lower is get you a softy foam type earplug and fit it to the the rear of the lower on the back shelf...you may or may not need the whole earplug.... I like the o ring...but go ahead and try the earplug as im sure you have one right close by.......either method makes the upper/lower tighter than Dik's hatband ! Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Floydie, hop into the Intro section, and tell us a little more about yourself. Make an Intro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 I've run thousands of rounds through my 10B's, and they're not showing any issues at the pins. Other parts should wear long before you start having distortion problems on the receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Honestly. There probably won’t be any more movement or deformation. These rifles need to mate parts. Your rifle has most likely settled and you won’t see much in the way of wear and tear now. If you can live with it, in its current state, you should be fine for thousands of more rounds. If it’s just the slight rattle that bugs you over time, stuff an accu-wedge in there and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 It aint the performance .....rattles/wobbles bother the crap out of me.....just put a 7 cent o-ring on the front lug I think its a number 7...or part of a foam ear plug in the back shelf.....no need to buy an accuwedge...... and food for thought...if you or anyone else a buys a matched set upper/lower you/they ..prolly wont have this type of problem ...that's one benefit of a matched set Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 " jb weld" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydieguns Posted March 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 18 hours ago, unforgiven said: " jb weld" ^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is my choice repair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydieguns Posted March 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 23 hours ago, Robocop1051 said: Honestly. There probably won’t be any more movement or deformation. These rifles need to mate parts. Your rifle has most likely settled and you won’t see much in the way of wear and tear now. If you can live with it, in its current state, you should be fine for thousands of more rounds. If it’s just the slight rattle that bugs you over time, stuff an accu-wedge in there and call it a day. I am anticipating as much. Was tied up yesterday. About finished with my sidearm, got the action work smoothed out. It is a stainless steel series 80 colt 1911. That and enjoying the seventy degree weather with my horses(equine type) kept me from meeting deadline about speccing out my ar308. Going to do a teardown and inspect later this day. Here is a peep at my 1911. One picture of a single gunsmith improvement that corrected multiple issues(in part) and another of my trigger weight. Yes, that is three pounds and one ounce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 Very cool brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydieguns Posted March 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 It seems, I forgot my gauge pins stop at .250" so.. when correcting other issues I was only able to get a look. My pivot pin is ~.276 to .277".. it was slightly tapered. The receivers are ~.280". Between the taper and the oversize it offers a slight click in fore/aft movement of upper/lower receiver when mated and pinned. Seems my eyes are not soo bad yet, after all. Not going to address that yet. If I keep it - when third barrel is installed, will ream and reanodize. If I sell it.. "NMMFP" (not my mother fornicating problem)!! Looks like a few thousandths oversized in cross-pins will correct this ailment. Thank you gentlemen, good sirs and fine ladies. Floydie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 Unless I missed it could be bad pins out of the box ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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