jtallen83 Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Docgmt said: The only hope we have to remaining a free people is to have foundational rules far above the governments reach to change as it sees fit. Yes, that was the original intent of the bill of rights..........the tree of Liberty needs refreshed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Docgmt said: He already had his constitutional rights, when tyranny is violating them you don't compromise by infecting the entire law abiding citizenry with another infringement. Move to California, and start to turn it around, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docgmt Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 44 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: Move to California, and start to turn it around, then. Sorry very busy here keeping this state free, californication will have to fix their own problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 Yep,Virginia does have issues. I lived there, so I know what you're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwrench Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Docgmt said: He already had his constitutional rights, when tyranny is violating them you don't compromise by infecting the entire law abiding citizenry with another infringement. The problem w your lic is it's a law a law that can be changed at anytime at the whims of congress. What guaranteed do you give to that not occurring? Two congresses from the lic declared your lic void and turn them in, your guns that is. The only hope we have to remaining a free people is to have foundational rules far above the governments reach to change as it sees fit. Plus one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 Good one! In the last 84 years, how many times have the 1934 NFA laws been changed?!... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 Just now, 98Z5V said: Good one! In the last 84 years, how many times have the 1934 NFA laws been changed?!... Just added to on numerous occasions when the sheeple begged to be protected from some imaginary boogey man created by politicians and mass media, it's still an unconstitutional law says this originalist. The socialist/progressive experiment began by the court in the early 1900's will be the undoing of our nation, many would say it is undone. Only by appointing a court that will judge each individual case by it's constitutional merits can the federal ship be righted without violence. That court will never be created with the current culture in America, right back to the long slow process of changing the culture. I think there has been a shift these last several years, people are beginning to feel the repercussions of a top down tyrannical government and starting to think about how it happened. Once people understand how and why we are where we are the rebuilding process can start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwrench Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 2 hours ago, jtallen83 said: How long before the regulation and law is so convoluted we all become violators? If you don't thin k that is the establishments goal then think again! In my opinion we are real close now. Just try traveling across this country while not violating any gun laws. A small example, in Virginia some counties make a loaded rifle in your vehicle an offense, some don't. This is a law that has to do with hunting. Do you want to bet they wouldn't prosecute a non hunter if it served the agenda . I am sure that with the current patch work of law we have in place not many of us aren't guilty of some violation at any given time. Our Congress didn't even pass reciprocity and I doubt there will ever be a better chance. What kind of chance would an even broader law have for enactment? Lets start with a nice clean slate, shall not infringe. If you murder, rob and rape have a trial, if guilty go to jail and perhaps if you repay the ones you wronged (not counting murder) and show true remorse you get to rejoin society. Simple to say but I am sure hard to enact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwrench Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: Just added to on numerous occasions when the sheeple begged to be protected from some imaginary boogey man created by politicians and mass media, it's still an unconstitutional law says this originalist. The socialist/progressive experiment began by the court in the early 1900's will be the undoing of our nation, many would say it is undone. Only by appointing a court that will judge each individual case by it's constitutional merits can the federal ship be righted without violence. That court will never be created with the current culture in America, right back to the long slow process of changing the culture. I think there has been a shift these last several years, people are beginning to feel the repercussions of a top down tyrannical government and starting to think about how it happened. Once people understand how and why we are where we are the rebuilding process can start. Plus one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwrench Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 2 hours ago, jtallen83 said: Yes, that was the original intent of the bill of rights..........the tree of Liberty needs refreshed. Original intent , written by geniuses, now practised by few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 Get to it, Hotwrench. Be that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 well ill take the 98 challenge and support this licensing memo for over the counter items. I didnt want a list but as said im already there. When or if the laws change there will be louder voices with better equiptment to stand up for our rights? My state is getting to close to redicilous laws already and they will not agree to this licence anyhow. Id love to say in the neck with your bs iam a law abiding citizen. I dont think snowflakes are going to turn us into nazi germany, they would fuckup a wet dream! Im going to enjoy my nfa items tomorrow?? for all that the fallen have given. All valid points from brothers alike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, 98Z5V said: Good one! In the last 84 years, how many times have the 1934 NFA laws been changed?!... 1 hour ago, jtallen83 said: Just added to on numerous occasions when the sheeple begged to be protected from some imaginary boogey man created by politicians and mass media, it's still an unconstitutional law says this originalist. Love ya, brother, but that's not what I asked. What I specifically asked was how many times the 1934 NFA was changed. Period. I'd like an answer - from anyone here - as to how many times the 1934 NFA has been changed. Nothing more, for that singular question. No rhetoric, no bullshiit - just an answer to that question I posed... It was a pretty simple question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: It was a pretty simple question... The additional federal laws did change the actual NFA act from its original verbiage. The wikipedia page does a good job of hitting these changes one by one, I'm not gonna count them, feel free; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act Sorry for being so loquacious in my original response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: The additional federal laws did change the actual NFA act from its original verbiage. The NFA of 1934, in itself, is unchanged, then. Yes or no... It's never changed. "Additional" whatever. The NFA 1934 has never changed. At all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 14 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: The NFA of 1934, in itself, is unchanged, then. Yes or no... It's never changed. "Additional" whatever. The NFA 1934 has never changed. At all. They have changed portions of it. It is a long and complicated law that has had the verbage adjusted many times. Did you read the wiki page, they go step by step listing the changes made? Just a few of the changes made; Minimum barrel length was soon amended to 16 inches for rimfire rifles and by 1960 had been amended to 16 inches for centerfire rifles as well.[7] In addition to fixing the defect identified in Haynes, the revision tightened definitions of the firearms regulated by the Act, as well as incorporating a new category of firearm, the Destructive Device, which was first regulated in the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968. NFA categories have been modified by laws passed by Congress, rulings by the Department of the Treasury and regulations promulgated by the enforcement agency assigned to known as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives or ATF. In 1960 Congress changed the transfer tax for all AOW category firearms to $5. The transfer tax for machine guns, silencers, SBR and SBS remained at $200.[10] For example, in Ruling 81-4, ATF declared that any AR-15 Drop-in Auto-Sear (DIAS) made after November 1, 1981 is itself a machine gun, and is therefore subject to regulation.[12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 So, my question stands... Which different acts made different changes that further impacted the decisions of NFA 1934? NFA 1934 has never been changed. At all. Different acts, at different times, may have made an impact on the rulings of NFA 1934 - but itself, it has never has it's own amendment, and it itself, has never been changed. It stands, complete as it was passed, unadultered. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 True, or am I lying?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 i have no interest in NFA other that its complete reappeal, so i dont know if it has or hasnt changed. It hasnt really needed to change because so few people are willing to go through the trouble of a stamp. I will certainly never do it. The percentage of firearms owners with NFA items is small. That still hasnt stopped states from denying its citizens ownership. but honestly, current NFA is a flawed comparison to the proposed registration scheme from that link. Saying NFA has been static since the beginning doesnt indicate this proposal will follow suit because they are different animals. If something like that became law of the land, its membership would expand exponentially overnight. it would take no time at all before items began disappearing off the "can have" list....and that would be permanent and for everyone. In no time at all common sense restrictions would be all over that federal registration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 minute ago, blue109 said: i have no interest in NFA other that its complete reappeal, so i dont know if it has or hasnt changed. It hasnt really needed to change because so few people are willing to go through the trouble of a stamp. I will certainly never do it. The percentage of firearms owners with NFA items is small. That still hasnt stopped states from denying its citizens ownership. but honestly, current NFA is a flawed comparison to the proposed registration scheme from that link. Saying NFA has been static since the beginning doesnt indicate this proposal will follow suit because they are different animals. If something like that became law of the land, its membership would expand exponentially overnight. it would take no time at all before items began disappearing off the "can have" list....and that would be permanent and for everyone. In no time at all common sense restrictions would be all over that federal registration. 84 years ago. You're saying that the number of SBR owners, the number of suppressor owners, the number of legal SBS owners, and the number of AOW owners is small. You have a number of the people that own all that stuff? You have any proof whatsoever than the 1934 NFA has ever been changed? Instead of deflecting again, just answer the question. When was the 1934 NFA changed?... When was it changed?... It never, ever was. That's the answer. Since you brought it up, please give me the numbers on the percentage of firearms owners with NFA items is small. You apparently have the numbers on all american gun owners, how many guns they have, and also have the data on how many NFA-item owners that are out there, by NFA-item count, so spill the beans already... Or, just say that it's conjecture on your part - and you have no data on your statement... You're just "guessing" here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) Relativity. You can estimate tens of millions of guns sold the past few years. Pretty safe to say NFA stuff is a small fraction of that. You are nitpicking. You are championing an unpopular idea. You seem to think you are seeing it in a different light than we are but you are not. We just have a fundamental difference of opinion on the nature of the problem. I want the inches back. This isnt a way to accomplish that goal. Were obviously not going to convince each other. Edited May 27, 2018 by blue109 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, blue109 said: Relativity. You can estimate tens of millions of guns sold the past few years. Pretty safe to say NFA stuff is a small fraction of that. You are nitpicking. I[m not nitpicking, at all. I never gave any stats. That's all YOU, brother. All you. You came up with the figure, not me, and said it was small - with zero data to back anything up. Not even ONE number... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 44 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: True, or am I lying?... Wow, do you not understand the meaning of the words amended, modified, revision, changed? read the history of the act and you will see these words used over and over. The act itself has been changed several times. Yes other acts were passed that had an effect on it but the act itself does not stand today verbatim as it was written and passed in 1934. I would not say you are a lier, just misguided in your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: You have any proof whatsoever than the 1934 NFA has ever been changed? See the above wikipedia article and the references included, just the plain undisputed truth, do you want me to believe that is all just a ruse? It has been changed and will be changed at every opportunity we give them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: Wow, do you not understand the meaning of the words amended, modified, revision, changed?\ I completely understand those words, in entirety. List the links to the changes to the NFA 1934... Cite sources. The NFA 1934 has never been amended, or changed. Prove me wrong. Edited May 27, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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