Traffic jam in the barrel

[Sisco]

There was a discussion about this a while ago with a barrel exploding. Found this article on loaded rifles at Gettysburg.

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/almost-every-rifle-recovered-at-gettysburg-was-fully-loaded-and-no-one-knows-why?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Organic4&utm_term=History&utm_content=almost-every-rifle-recovered-at-gettysburg-was-fully-loaded-and-no-one-knows-why

[unforgiven]

War is a terrible thing.

[Belt Fed]

I've read that one about the 23 loads, hard to imagine but I can't imagine shooting those 58 caliber mini 's at each other from close range either. Apparently the guy shooting that gun was scared shitless (which is understandable) or he has never shot a gun before. I have loaded a ball on an empty powder charge a few times. so I can see it happening easily.

[98Z5V]

That's wild. I can see getting so nervous or shaken that you mess the powder charge up - I can see that easily. Spill more than you charge.There's a reduced charge, right there, waiting to be fired, and not get a projo out of that long barrel. Or, next to last step before you fire, you don't notice that you missed the cap, dropped the cap, or didn't seat the cap - and it falls out. Last step, you don't take it from half-cocked to full-cock and try to fire it - reduced hammer speed...

Alot can contribute to that, but I never, ever knew there were that many problems.  That's pretty eye-opening...  😮

[Robocop1051]

I can honestly see the argument that some Americans just got plan rebellious about killing other Americans. 

The South declaring Confederacy was not a take over. They were already there. It was there home. The Union attacked the south and descended on them. The north  had to psychologically prepare their soldiers to be killers and warriors. When they left their homes, it was because they were conditioned to be soldiers. The confederate army didn’t have they preparation nor the mental preparedness. They were walking out of their house and fighting in their own backyards. 

If you have to march 200 miles, with someone telling you every day that you’re going to have to kill someone, eventually that starts to sound like a good idea. If you wake up one morning and someone tells you to go outside and kill someone... well that takes a little more convincing. 

Im not defending or supporting one side of the mason/Dixon line over the other. I’m just pointing out how much war sucks. 

Civil War = 100% American casualties 

[98Z5V]

I see you are a student of LTC Dave Grossman.  As am I, my brother. 

[unforgiven]

Which pose's the problem of the ages. You take the average Joe, and you try to make a killing machine out of him. Then try to go back to what was.. normal. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by unforgiven
Sat on my nuts

[98Z5V]

I could talk about that for hours, my brother.  I can get Loquacious about that topic.  

[bubbas4570]

1 hour ago, unforgiven said:

Which pose's the problem of the ages. You take the average Joe, and you try to make a killing machine out of him. Then try to go back to what was.. normal. 

Removal of a normal set of morals (in order to make killing another human something automatic) for a determinant period of time, and then BAM!!! you are supposed to go bake to hoeing corn, baking bread, or just setting there with the dog watching sunsets? It never did work that way........and it never will.

 

And I am not talking about those who were already predisposed to killing for fun and profit either. Most of them don't come back all fukd up, just better at it.

[Magwa]

easy to do under the strain of battle up close like that does not surprise me, man that was a horrific war....

[98Z5V]

12 hours ago, bubbas4570 said:

Removal of a normal set of morals (in order to make killing another human something automatic) for a determinant period of time, and then BAM!!! you are supposed to go bake to hoeing corn, baking bread, or just setting there with the dog watching sunsets? It never did work that way........and it never will.

 

And I am not talking about those who were already predisposed to killing for fun and profit either. Most of them don't come back all fukd up, just better at it.

That stuff isn't completely true.  Training, training, training - and I'm talking about realistic training.  Mindset, which you can train.  This could turn into a long conversation. 

[bubbas4570]

LIn other words, 98, the training (repetitive training, I mean the kind you are talking about) just removes the part of the human nature that most of us have in which we don't have it in us to kill each other over and over. Yes, that can be done. I don't discount that at all. What mean is taking someone into battle, trained mind you, and then when their tour is over, just expecting them to return to what their previous normal was....no problems and such. That doesn't happen, and all one needs to look at is the suicide rates, PTSD rates, and the related problems with veterans. The current generation isn't much different than previous generations of Veterans in their pro lem, they are just handling them differently. I know of many WWII,and Korean vets back home that were forever changed by their experiences, and some overcame them with alot of time, some didn't and just did whatever the could to bury/overcome their problems. Vietnam Era veterans that I know have many of the same stories, just ZERO backing upon returning from overseas.....that didn't help at all.

 

Mayhaps I look at this differently, but how I see the training to change the mindset works from your perspective just coarsense the person to being able to take lives on command. This toughen ing is a process of removing some of the moral structure some have that wouldn't be changed without the need for killing. I am not talking self defence, but war and killing. Not everyone has this softer side, if you will, and those that don't usually have had it removed through a tougher upbringing.

 

I can say more later, when I have more time.

[98Z5V]

On 4/27/2019 at 12:26 PM, bubbas4570 said:

What mean is taking someone into battle, trained mind you, and then when their tour is over, just expecting them to return to what their previous normal was....no problems and such.

They're gonna come out the same way they went in.  They were either (1) ready, prepared, and expecting to see/do what they did - trained to see it, counter, it, or mitigate it - or (2) they weren't.  Most of those that are the former, have no issues.  Most of those that are the latter - it fuks them up, depending on how bad it was.  

[bubbas4570]

24 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

They're gonna come out the same way they went in.  They were either (1) ready, prepared, and expecting to see/do what they did - trained to see it, counter, it, or mitigate it - or (2) they weren't.  Most of those that are the former, have no issues.  Most of those that are the latter - it fuks them up, depending on how bad it was.  

I can't argue with you, as I haven't served. I don't know what training is provided to the members getting sent into harm's way/a poop hole no one show be in, all I know is the problems that I see and hear about  with what is going on after they get back. I can only hope that I am NOT seeing way more positive stories than the negative problems of Veterans the is seenseen after returning.

 

Like I said in a different way earlier, this is how I see it.

[98Z5V]

2 minutes ago, bubbas4570 said:

I can only hope that I am NOT seeing way more positive stories than the negative problems of Veterans the is seenseen after returning.

 

Like I said in a different way earlier, this is how I see it.

You'll never see news stories about the people that come back and don't have any problems, brother...  

[bubbas4570]

Not on topic, but I really wish I could catch the fuk ups caused by my autocorrect on my tablet.......

[Sisco]

General Buford’s calvarymen on Cemetery ridge on the first day of the battle were armed with Spencer breech loaders, it would be interesting to see if there were fewer of those found loaded then Springfield and Enfield muskets used by the Union and Confederate infantrymen, respectively. If so, it could be a function of the complicated procedure needed to load a musket in the heat of battle. Probably a lot of factors. “The Killer Angels” movie, later renamed “Gettysburg” is a great movie. The Killer Angels book was very good as well. Walking that battlefield was a very memorable experience, especially for a civil war history buff like myself.

[unforgiven]

Having traveled the area with all the woods and greenery, it's almost im possible to see the enemy in the woods. Scary $hit. Worse yet infection/ amputation...POW camps. There is a large memorial to Confederate soldiers on the southwest side of Chicago. Many made it that far during the war.

Yet we now have sciopaths among us that would cause murder and sleep well