That Empty Feeling

[RedRiverII]

Went to the range with a few pistols and one revolver that I acquired recently.  Let's try the S&W M&P 22 compact.  Fire,  jam,  eject manually, jam.  Case was stick in the chamber and removed with a cleaning rod.  Ditto,  case gets stuck.  I did clean and lube this pistol beforehand.  I'll call S&W today.  Next up S&W Thunder Ranch all steel 45 revolver moon clips.  Fire, boom thwack,  thwack,  thwack,  thwack,  boom.  Two moon clips with identical performance.  Four rounds ignite and two do not.  Put that away in the case.  The ammo was bought from a guy I felt sorry for.  Dude ran his business into the ground and I bought a bag of reloads from him for $25.  Guessing it's the reloads.  The mainspring may have been loosened a bit much as well causing light strikes,  not sure.  Picked up the 1911 and it shot everything I asked of it.  Had a new used Glock 26 and it did the same,  boom boom boom.  Point of the post,  that empty feeling is caused when I pulled the trigger and nothing...  Just wanted to say I'll never carry an untested firearm again.  I did carry the 22 a couple of times at night while walking the pup.  We do have some huge snakes in my area and ... Thankfully I did not need that 22 as a rock would have been better protection.  It's not the first time a firearm did not ignite for me but my confidence took a hammering.  

[Magwa]

or untested ammo a gun is only as good as the ammo, not really a good idea to buy any reload unless you know the person and their ammo, bummer day at the range it will get better....carry the 1911..

[392heminut]

A bad day at the range is STILL better than a good day at work though!

[Sisco]

Magwa hit the nail on the head. Always test the ammo. On the 22 check and see if you were shooting standard velocity 22’s. Some semi autos now recommend only 22 High Velocity. My GSG’s are 22 High Velocity only. Regular 22’s will not fully retract the slide. Also, there are a lot of crap standard 22’s out there. I have had problems with both Winchester and Federal with misfires. I buy only CCI now, and I still have a few misfires. Had one Tuesday in my Ruger Mk II.

[98Z5V]

14 hours ago, RedRiverII said:

 Just wanted to say I'll never carry an untested firearm again. 

My rule for carry a pistol - or moreso, determining if a pistol is carry-worthy...  It MUST blow through 500 rounds without a single ANYTHING. Perfect function.  After it makes 500 rounds, it gets night sights installed.  Then, and only then, it's a carry gun.   If I'd get 498 rounds in, and have any kind of a malfunction whatsoever, I'd determine the cause of the malfunction, correct it - and start again at Round Number 0, until I got to 500.  The only exception I've ever, ever made to this, for any handgun, was the G43X.  I got to 350 rounds, from the very first round out of the gun.  Zero issues.  I had the night sights installed right then.  Took it out the next weekend, got the other 150 rounds, and then bought the IWB carry holster for it.  It's my daily now.

4 hours ago, Sisco said:

 I buy only CCI now, and I still have a few misfires. Had one Tuesday in my Ruger Mk II.

I mainly shoot CCI for the .22LRs, too.  That's all I ever recommended to Appleseed students.  One thing about CCI .22LR ammo, though - CCI Standard Velocity and CCI Mini-Mags are the exact same load - the Standard Velocity is bare lead projectiles, the Mini-Mags are those same projectiles, just copper-washed.  Same ammo.  If you get a stoppage  or reduced performance from CCI Standard Velocity, and not with MIni-Mags, it's because of something going on with the rifling - a burr, or something, that's grabbing that bare lead SV projectile.

The only other two ammos that I'll recommend for semi-auto .22LRs is Fed Auto-Match, sold in 325-rd boxes, and Winchester M22, in the 1,000-rd boxes. Those two work.  They're all 40gr round nose, and that's what's important for semi .22LRs.  No 36-gr hollowpoints.  Save those things for the miniature bolt guns. 

[Albroswift]

14 hours ago, RedRiverII said:

The mainspring may have been loosened a bit much as well causing light strikes,  not sure

Shooting USPSA I had backed out the mainspring tension screw on my 629 until the hammer would bounce back off the primer, spring wouldn't even hold it all the way forward. Only could run Federal primers.  Argued with an old gunsmith I know for over a year about the subject and he finally convinced me, better geometry to change out the mainspring and rebound spring and polish up all the lockwork, and keep the screw all the way in.

 

 

[RedRiverII]

When clothing is right the 1911 sits in a  Milt Sparks horsehide IWB.  Confidence is not lacking with the 45.  Arguably of course,  but the 1911 is the best hand filling grip to date for me.  It just fits.  The 22 is not staying in the stable.  I'll shoot it again, and figure it out,  but the experience is not good.  I used the CCI quiet-22.  I have some Aguila .22 Super Extra,  it says 1,225 FPS and copper plated.  I'll give that a go and reconsider.  Sisco,  I went to Shoot Straight,  nice folks there.  I just looked at the CCI box,  710 FPS,  my bad.  I should and will use the high speed stuff for break-in.  BTW I bought the reloads so the older gentleman had food for him and his pup that day  Really tough spot the guy was in.  I know that feeling. I'll work those bad loads through the 1911 one at a time.  If they don't fire it's oil can time.  I haven't pulled any rounds yet,  but do have a bullet puller hmm perhaps the Lord has offered me a new lesson?  Thank you all for the advice and caring offered,  it is appreciated.

[Cliff R]

"My rule for carry a pistol - or moreso, determining if a pistol is carry-worthy...  It MUST blow through 500 rounds without a single ANYTHING. Perfect function."

+2, 3, 4 and 5

Once something shows me it's unreliable I just don't trust it, period.  Just went thru some drama with a S & W 45 Shield I purchased a couple of years ago.  It will not "run" so down the road it goes.  Mine even went back to S & W for a complete overhaul and they gave it a clean bill of health, get it back and still jams.

I have tried just about every 22 auto pistol out there over the years and got to say that very few will "run" on most of this commercially available "low" end ammo.  Bricks, boxes, buckets and tins of cheap 22 ammo is DIRTY and low quality.

The last 22 pistol I had was a Ruger SR 22.  It would run about 100-150 rounds of the cheap stuff then start acting up.  I'd walk out to the shop, spray it down with brake-clean, blow it completely out with compressed air, a little Tri-Flow in the right places and good for another 100-150 rounds or so.  That same saga happens with every 22 auto pistol I've owned.  You can push that deal further by using cleaner ammo, or get less rounds before issues with really bottom shelf stuff, but 22 rim fire auto pistols are typically NOT reliable in long term service without keeping them clean.

The worst ammo I tried to run was the cheap Remington hollow points, and the low-end Federal isn't much better.  CCI is top of the pile as is the older Winchester Western Super X.  As it's related I have a really old Marlin bolt action 22 sold under the Sears label.  It's topped with a vintage Weaver 4X scope with the spider web thin crosshairs.  ROCK solid platform and one of the most accurate 22's I've ever shot/owned.  You can shoot a hole in a piece of paper then shoot a dozen more rounds right nearly thru the same hole at 25 yards.  Even out at 50 yards it's under a dime.......but......ONLY if you use top shelf ammo in it.  The same greasy-grimy crap that loads up the 22 auto pistols will not group nearly as well as the higher end stuff.

As a general rule I NEVER shoot anyone else's reloads.  I've been reloading coming up 45 years now..  Whatever I'm reloading for gets slower burning powders or at least those that yield over 50 percent case capacity with starting loads.  This absolutely makes sure that you will not double-charge a load.  I've been on the range when this happens and it's not pretty.  Lots of folks just open up the reloading manual and pick a powder, like Bullseye for example.  Good powder, doesn't need much of it and saves money.  However, it's super quick burning and in most handgun cases you can EASILY double and even triple charge them accidentally.....YIKES! 

Folks may also try to load hotter loads with faster burning powder.  Problem with that deal is that pressure rise is fast as is temperature and you can burn the forcing cone out of your favorite revolver using power on the faster end of the scale to load +P and Magnum rounds with it.   Don't ask me how I know this.

Anyhow, sorry for the rambling, hope it helps someone someplace with this sort of thing.......Cliff

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Cliff R

[Sisco]

good advice Cliff. Only time I have deviated from that on 45 acp. Was when I had 500 -230 grain hollow points that had to be loaded higher then 850 feet per second to reliably open up. I ended up getting Viht H320  powder. It is a small load of powder, but had the lowest chamber pressure readings  for pushing that bullet at 850 feet per second of any powder I found. But I used a Hornady Automatic digital powder meter to charge the case and reweighed every powder charge to be sure I didn’t double charge it. It paid off. They are incredibly accurate in my FNX45 and very clean shooting when I use my suppressor. But yeah, it is nerve wracking to load them.

[Sharpshooter]

Way back when, I wore a badge and carried a Combat Commander. I loaded the old Speer #4477 200 grain hollowpoint (the flying ashtray) over a 20% overload of bullseye. I worked up to the load, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else. It worked in my weapon. But after around 5000 rounds, it bulged the chamber. (Yes, I know. It was too hot. But I wanted the velocity.) I replaced that barrel and went on about my business. As far as I'm concerned, it was a successful load, given its purpose. And the FBI (at a firearms trainers course) decided my load had the best combination of penetration and mushrooming of anything brought to the course. That ranged from .38 Specials to .44 Magnums (which blew through the test media and were judged as "fornicate me, I don't want to be shot with THAT!!).

[RedRiverII]

Went back to range today,  will report after coffee tomorrow morn. 

[Cliff R]

Coincidentally I'm getting ready to load up some 45 ACP rounds.  Haven't played around with that caliber for decades.  

Picked up some CFE Pistol powder and Hornady 185 grain XTP jacketed hollow points.  Going to produce some higher velocity loads later today.  Reloading data says 7.1 to 8.1 grains and about 1000-1100fps from a 5" barrel. 

Kind of cool but while I was digging around in my gun stuff I found some cool stuff I inherited from my dad after he passed.  An old Redding powder scale, Lyman 30-06 hand loader, and a hand held shotgun loader.

I also found a box of 45 Govt parts left over from back when I used to build them and shoot competitively.  Going to send all of it down the road here when I get a moment to advertise it.......Cliff

 

[Cliff R]

On the topic and FWIW about working up "hot" loads.  WAY back when S & W introduced the 586 .357 magnum revolver I obtained a very early production model.  It was the same year I got married (1980) and had already started a family and new job with the Sheriffs Office.  Loved that gun and started hand loading for it.  I didn't have much money to work with back then so I used some powders I already had on hand to work up magnum loads with.  Those included Bullseye and Red Dot.  BAD idea.  Within a 1000 rounds or so I'd eroded the forcing cone right out of it and it started to spit lead and excessive gas leakage between the chamber and barrel.  I was devastated, but it's good learn lessons early in life with these things. 

I moved on to a 629 when they came out and used either H100 or 2400 for all my magnum loads, and have taken scores of deer with that pistol  over the years.  It's in perfect shape and has had many thousands of pretty hefty loads put thru it.  I cast my own Keith SWC bullets for it out of wheel weights with some tin added.  They weigh in a little under 300 grains grains (nearly as I can remember) and are smoking across the chrony around 1400fps. 

I've taken a few whitetails out close to 200 yards and that load still passes right thru both shoulders!  These days the 44 mag is overshadowed by much more powerful offerings but back when I first got into long range hunting with handguns it was at the top of the pile and still very effective with the right loads.

I would add here that one should NOT attempt to load early model 29's anywhere near full house with heavy bullets.  I tried that once briefly in an earlier model 29 and they don't have the internal upgrades and other mods needed for those loads.  I've had the cylinder fall open after a shot, and frequently unlock and rotate back so the next round falls on an empty chamber.  Also bent the crane that holds the cylinder from the heavy recoil.  S & W fixed all those issues with the newer versions........Cliff

[Sisco]

6 hours ago, Cliff R said:

On the topic and FWIW about working up "hot" loads.  WAY back when S & W introduced the 586 .357 magnum revolver I obtained a very early production model.  It was the same year I got married (1980) and had already started a family and new job with the Sheriffs Office.  Loved that gun and started hand loading for it.  I didn't have much money to work with back then so I used some powders I already had on hand to work up magnum loads with.  Those included Bullseye and Red Dot.  BAD idea.  Within a 1000 rounds or so I'd eroded the forcing cone right out of it and it started to spit lead and excessive gas leakage between the chamber and barrel.  I was devastated, but it's good learn lessons early in life with these things. 

I moved on to a 629 when they came out and used either H100 or 2400 for all my magnum loads, and have taken scores of deer with that pistol  over the years.  It's in perfect shape and has had many thousands of pretty hefty loads put thru it.  I cast my own Keith SWC bullets for it out of wheel weights with some tin added.  They weigh in a little under 300 grains grains (nearly as I can remember) and are smoking across the chrony around 1400fps. 

I've taken a few whitetails out close to 200 yards and that load still passes right thru both shoulders!  These days the 44 mag is overshadowed by much more powerful offerings but back when I first got into long range hunting with handguns it was at the top of the pile and still very effective with the right loads.

I would add here that one should NOT attempt to load early model 29's anywhere near full house with heavy bullets.  I tried that once briefly in an earlier model 29 and they don't have the internal upgrades and other mods needed for those loads.  I've had the cylinder fall open after a shot, and frequently unlock and rotate back so the next round falls on an empty chamber.  Also bent the crane that holds the cylinder from the heavy recoil.  S & W fixed all those issues with the newer versions........Cliff

Have a 629 and a late model 29. For whatever reason I like the trigger in the 29 better. Also more comfortable to shoot when you are going through 20-25 rounds. Planning to give the 629 to my son for his birthday next year.

[Cliff R]

Any of the later S & W 44's are more than up to the task of shooting custom heavy loads in them, NONE of the early guns are.  I'm not sure exactly when they put all the upgrades in place, but as a general rule if your 29 or 629 has a "pinned" barrel it should NEVER get heavy loads of any variety put thru it. 

Heavy recoil can and will release the latch and the cylinder will fall open.  The cylinder lock can also move down and allow it to rotate to a different chamber after a round is fired.  Constant pounding will bend the crane back and it will start to become more difficult to close the cylinder and the air gap between the cylinder and barrel will increase.  I ruined two early guns back when I was doing long range shooting with heavy custom loads.  Tried a Redhawk briefly, actually two of them.  They can take the pounding but can't even come remotely close to the accuracy of the S & W's with big heavy hard cast bullets, at least none I've ever had in my hand were up to the task.  The barrels were so "rough" cut in both of my guns you'd be lucky to hit a 5 gallon bucket at 15 steps after putting a dozen or so rounds thru either one of them!

I quit shooting and hunting with my 629 when Ohio allowed straight wall rifle cartridges for deer hunting.  I miss hunting with it but not how bad it rings my ears w/o hearing protection.  I never got used to wearing any sort of hearing protection when hunting, and my tinnitus is so bad these days even one round from the 629 w/o it is  too much.

I sold my 686 recently and going to send the 629 down the road as well.......

[Sisco]

54 minutes ago, Cliff R said:

Any of the later S & W 44's are more than up to the task of shooting custom heavy loads in them, NONE of the early guns are.  I'm not sure exactly when they put all the upgrades in place, but as a general rule if your 29 or 629 has a "pinned" barrel it should NEVER get heavy loads of any variety put thru it. 

Heavy recoil can and will release the latch and the cylinder will fall open.  The cylinder lock can also move down and allow it to rotate to a different chamber after a round is fired.  Constant pounding will bend the crane back and it will start to become more difficult to close the cylinder and the air gap between the cylinder and barrel will increase.  I ruined two early guns back when I was doing long range shooting with heavy custom loads.  Tried a Redhawk briefly, actually two of them.  They can take the pounding but can't even come remotely close to the accuracy of the S & W's with big heavy hard cast bullets, at least none I've ever had in my hand were up to the task.  The barrels were so "rough" cut in both of my guns you'd be lucky to hit a 5 gallon bucket at 15 steps after putting a dozen or so rounds thru either one of them!

I quit shooting and hunting with my 629 when Ohio allowed straight wall rifle cartridges for deer hunting.  I miss hunting with it but not how bad it rings my ears w/o hearing protection.  I never got used to wearing any sort of hearing protection when hunting, and my tinnitus is so bad these days even one round from the 629 w/o it is  too much.

I sold my 686 recently and going to send the 629 down the road as well.......

I am keeping my 29 for my Florida snake gun loaded with shot-shells, with JHPs for back up in case feral pigs show up.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Sisco

[Cliff R]

Never ran into any feral hogs even when I lived in Southern GA.  Used to see areas all rooted up by them, but never encountered one up close and personal in the wild.  I'll bet in the right scenario they could be pretty dangerous.......