Any Ham operators here?

[RedRiverII]

@Lane,  I just wanted to point out that you have been supremely helpful in this subject.  The time and effort alone was worthy of mention,  but the experience and guidance you offered allowed me to get a clearer picture of some subjects that completely stumped me.  I can see you are a powerful example of the Ham community.  I will in turn pass on whatever information I am able to,  to those that are stumped. 

  73

Edited November 11, 2020 by RedRiverII
sp.

[Magwa]

I also have a Butternut HF9V 9-Band Vertical Antenna but I have not got it up yet, it is a ( band antenna and from what I have read could really be a good one will have to wait and see...

[98Z5V]

18 hours ago, Lane said:

@98Z5V What is up with your ground antenna operation? I assume that includes some kind of tree wire as well? Not a pure ground wire antenna?       

Directional ground wire is the way to go for HF.  HF is simple - you're bouncing radio waves along the ground.  Tx/Rx freq is the same here, and you literally have to point the wire at your recipient.  You cut the wire to an exact length for your TX/Rx freq, and literally lay it down on the ground, in the direction of the Rx station.  HF usually sucks for voice, but it excels at data, or Morse with a leg key.  If you nail that wire antenna to perfection, you can still pull voice with it, but it usually sounds like someone is talking underwater.  You have to speak very deliberately running voice over HF. 

For VHF and the lower areas of UHF, a field expedient 292 antenna is easy to make, and works very, very well.  This is very specific to the Tx/Rx freq, too, and you cut the ground plane sections to a specific (1/4 wave) length.  Super easy to make.  For "insulators", we used the plastic MRE spoons.  All the information to construct one is in any Ranger Handbook (SH 21-76). 

Edited November 12, 2020 by 98Z5V

[RedRiverII]

@Ravenworks  Very cool link,  thank you.  I missed this post earlier,  the study manuals got me nuts.  

[RedRiverII]

On 11/8/2020 at 3:46 PM, Radioactive said:

Congrats on the general 

Thanks bro,  it was fun going through the challenge.

[RedRiverII]

On 11/11/2020 at 8:20 AM, Magwa said:

I also have a Butternut HF9V 9-Band Vertical Antenna but I have not got it up yet, it is a ( band antenna and from what I have read could really be a good one will have to wait and see...

I understand that antennas are key to our success.

[RedRiverII]

On 11/8/2020 at 5:15 PM, Lane said:

@RedRiverII Back a page, attachment on post: Posted Thursday at 09:44 AM 

I entered the first 24 or so from the repeaterbook search, and saved the CHIRP file for you so you didn't have to type it out yourself.

I did find the connection just now,  I am indebted for sure.

[RedRiverII]

"...once again into the breech ".  I have just received the ARRL Extra Class License Manual,  Twelfth Edition.  It is for exams taken between July 1, 2020 and June 30, 2024.  This book has just been released.  I'll look for an exam one month out from now.   Again I thought the rug had been pulled out from beneath because of the antenna issue.  Then I found a story online from Florida.  Some woman gets assistance from a guy who knows a guy... It turns out to be the fellow who writes or produces "Last Man Standing."  It turns out Tim Allen is a Ham as well.  Anyway they managed to put a 32' antenna in her attic.  They got ahold of France first,  then went on to some other country.  The locations are not important here.  What's important is I believe I can do it now.  They used a Comet H42Z,  some LMR 400 solid conductor with N connectors. " N connectors was a question on the General.  They had a run of 29' and had to modify the length.  An antenna analyzer was a must.  Nancy from Florida was the woman.  While learning and searching the internet one of my favorite things was a remark.  These are not the exact words,  but when you run into some problem,  challenge,  or a dipshit,  instead of getting angry do what the winners do.  Outsmart the bastards. AR

[Lane]

2 hours ago, RedRiverII said:

They had a run of 29' and had to modify the length.  An antenna analyzer was a must.

I have been meaning to mention this too... You analyze anything you buy really. A broken or out of spec antenna can break your radio if you don't know what you're doing. Even when you buy something "ready made". I got a dummy load marked for a band or two. It was non-functional; just off the charts on the analyzer (and never worked "obviously").

Measure twice, cut once; isn't even close to enough in the ham world. Check everything... And keep checking until it's always right (this mostly applies to HF operation).

[98Z5V]

^^^  That right there is why we always cut all our antennas for the exact length, militarily. 

[Lane]

1 minute ago, 98Z5V said:

^^^  That right there is why we always cut all our antennas for the exact length, militarily. 

I've been meaning to ask about this...Those ground antennas. Were you running below 2MHz? I earlier suspected it was an operational thing (I read up on army manuals to be "more sure") . I suspected distance was a factor in that choice (and terrain). Not to mention hardware, technology, weight, etc.

Now; I'm beginning to wonder, if the frequency was tuned to distance using ground antennas for their limitations? 

[RedRiverII]

Antennas are a good topic for me.  Thanks guys for the info.   I wanted to have a first DIY building project,  and I'll go with the Dummy load.  I have not opened the book yet but from what I hear the test has been made a bit simpler by removing some questions.  Some other questions have been made so the subject matter is clearer.  @jtallen83,  The reason to learn to pass the test is not to defeat the art of Ham Radio but to initiate the newer practitioner to all the jargon.  That's what I think.  Once you handle a radio or watch some videos,  those folks talk in Ham Radio speak.  SWR,  DSP,  Ohms,  current,  series or parallel come alive after you know the subject matter.  AHA,  that's why I need to measure power loss in watts on the RG8 coax.  Guess I should've used R58 or solid line...Before the test they lost me in the jargon.  @Lane Thanks Bud you are helping me stay in the pursuit.  I have really been examining the whole gambit of Ham.  I have held off buying any equipment or radios until I understand what is important.  Unlike my feverish consumption induced here at 308AR,  I have been very laidback in the purchasing dept.  I will buy a soldering iron,  a couple of resistors,  1030.01capacitors and a Hammond cube and build a dummy load.  The extra class exam comes first.  I got the book yesterday and have not opened it yet.  Once I do all other fun stuff goes to the back burner.  I'm going to dig in and complete the endeavor.  I'll set a date for the exam a month out and go for it.  Thank you all once again.

[RedRiverII]

@shooterrex  HAMSTUDY.ORG  has a schedule for online exams and a study guide.  To take the exam online is either $10.00 or $15.    

[shooterrex]

4 hours ago, RedRiverII said:

@shooterrex  HAMSTUDY.ORG  has a schedule for online exams and a study guide.  To take the exam online is either $10.00 or $15.    

Thanks.

[98Z5V]

21 hours ago, Lane said:

I've been meaning to ask about this...Those ground antennas. Were you running below 2MHz? I earlier suspected it was an operational thing (I read up on army manuals to be "more sure") . I suspected distance was a factor in that choice (and terrain). Not to mention hardware, technology, weight, etc.

Now; I'm beginning to wonder, if the frequency was tuned to distance using ground antennas for their limitations? 

Not below 2 - just the typical (military) 2~30 MHz HF stuff.  The directional ground wires are an "field expedient" way to get it done, over a Directional Long Wire antenna.  We never wanted a long wire antenna sticking out in front of a hide site.  Long wire is much more effecient, but it's pretty visible.  Mission dictates, though, and most times, you don't want anything that can be identified. 

I'll find some pics...

EDIT - here's a goldmine on old-school army antennas:

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a155204.pdf

Here's a Long Wire setup:

Edited November 14, 2020 by 98Z5V

[Steveale]

I’ve had a General Class Radio Telephone Operators License (lifetime). I worked on television transmitters, cellular radio, and public safety radio services for Motorola.  I’ve always though about doing ham and seeing this thread rekindled my interest.  Then I investigate and find that the commercial license I have does not reciprocate to the amateur side.  You gotta be f’ing kidding me.  Lol. I passed the old classes 3, 2 and 1 certifications before they changed it to general and lifetime.  Gotta love the government.  

[Lane]

2 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

2~30 MHz HF stuff.  The directional ground wires are an "field expedient" way to get it done, over a Directional Long Wire antenna.  We never wanted a long wire antenna sticking out in front of a hide site.  Long wire is much more efficient, but it's pretty visible.  Mission dictates, though, and most times, you don't want anything that can be identified. 

I'll find some pics...

EDIT - here's a goldmine on old-school army antennas:

You answered all my questions here...  Thank you. I was pretty sure there was a very good reason you didn't want to raise an arial. And all the illustrations I've seen, none recommended ground. Your mention of this makes me want to experiment though. I'm thinking one could do some interesting things on HF playing off of ideal terrain... This too is another reason why I have an attic antenna; when I don't have an HOA, or any other explicit zoning restrictions. Nobody's the wiser to what I do. I don't have any reason to advertise.

I LOVE those army manuals in general. I've been reading them on and off since grade school. There are SO MANY, on such a wide variety of topics! Great illustrations, easy reading, and usually more informative than an encyclopedia by a long shot.

[RedRiverII]

I looked at the Ranger book suggestion and found very interesting and direct info there thanks.

[RedRiverII]

@Steveale The amateur licenses are secondary on any shared frequencies,  but amateur bands can't be used by commercial interests.  Laurel/VEC exams are free.  You could probably pass the exams easily.  You can try an exam on QRZ.com.  

[Lane]

For me (on antennas); these were on my screen before I replied to @98Z5V  Appreciated. I'll read anything useful...

TM_11-666.pdf

fm24-18.pdf

[RedRiverII]

You guys are unbelievably helpful,  especially to a newcomer to the subject.  I all the manuals and they are a treasure trove of information.  One of the most important things is the antenna.  I was worried about setting up a home base,  and still am.  The key to my success is the correct antenna.  Thanks.

 I'm having trouble setting a date for the Extra exam.  The fellows cancelled the 12/06/20 test,  I just called and spoke to them.  The exam was set for a retirement community and because of Covid they felt they had to cancel.  I like to set a date for the exam so I can settle in and do the study with purpose routine.  I still have not cracked open the new Extra manual.

[Lane]

@RedRiverII

http://www.arrl.org/find-an-amateur-radio-license-exam-session

I just used Florida, and a date range through January as search terms. There are quite a few options depending on your tolerance for driving to a testing location. I noticed a few interesting location choices as well. An emergency ops center, public library, VE's house just to name a few...

Found this just now at a whim and it has some more specifics on indoor antenna options. https://www.rsgbshop.org/acatalog/PDF/StealthAntennas_Sample.pdf

[RedRiverII]

@Lane Thanks,  the only ARRL listing I found was the one that was cancelled.  Let me look at your posted listing.  Oh I see,  you just entered Florida,  good thinking buddy.  I'll definitely check out the indoor antenna link.  Who would have thought that antennas were so complex.  I began reading the DOA manual and thankfully it is laid out in simpler language.  Also I just began reading the manual and taking tests.  I now about one out of every eight questions,  schmart I am.    I'll return.

[RedRiverII]

@Lane,  There is only one exam listed that I would consider, and it is an hour's drive.   I'll set it up tomorrow.  The book has finally cracked open and the quest to extra begins.  You know I have not made one call yet.  I have listened to the weather but no ham conversations have I listened to.  It'll happen soon enough.  BTW,  Alaska has a club that has figured out how to do the test remotely.  It is a little complicated but they have the know how,  I may call them tomorrow. 

How about you what are you into these days radio wise?  Any DX'ing?  Local stuff?  Have you ever done a contest?  All States?  What kind of unit are you using,  what type of unit are you looking to get?  I talked earlier about the 7300 which is a good unit so they say in reviews, but so is Icom,  Elecraft,  Yaesu,  Kenwood and others. I'm ogling them all,  and Christmas is around the corner.  I may sell my LaRue and some other gear to have a nice chunk of cash for this radio hobby.  First the exam,  then the antenna education,  then a base unit,  power supply,  mic,  and stuff I don't even know I need yet.

[98Z5V]

2 minutes ago, RedRiverII said:

How about you what are you into these days radio wise?  Any DX'ing?  Local stuff?  Have you ever done a contest?  All States?  What kind of unit are you using,  what type of unit are you looking to get? 

Did you just try to Waterboard him, over radio shiit?...  

Slow down, take your Ritalin...