What happen here?

[Lr-308FUn]

I have been building ARs for decades now and I have never seen this before. Just look at the pics they tell the whole story. 
The barrel extension unscrewed for the barrel when timing the muzzle brake. This is a Ballistic Advantage 16" .308 TACTICAL GOVERNMENT MIDLENGTH AR 308 BARREL, MODERN SERIES barrel. I have contacted the place where I purchased this from and BA also. 

I thought I should share this. I know for a fact that this isn't suppose to happen. 

[98Z5V]

Barrel Index Pins don't lock the extension to the barrel - they never go deep enough to get into the threading, and they're not designed to.  What keeps the barrel extension ON the barrel is 175lb/ft of torque.  Not a typo.

BA will have you send the barrel back, and they'll give you another one, no questions asked.  Don't waste your time with the vendor, if that vendor wasn't BA directly. 

Yes, I had that happen once, on a 16" 300BLK barrel.  I fixed it at home, and it hasn't been a problem since.  Never will be, either.

[98Z5V]

1 hour ago, Lr-308FUn said:

The barrel extension unscrewed for the barrel when timing the muzzle brake.

Also, this could never happen when installing a muzzle brake.  Just taking one off.  Right hand threads, both ends.  If it happened installing, then it would only tighten the extension onto the barrel.  Not the other way around, and break it free.  That can only come from/happen with a counterclockwise motion.

Edited April 29, 2021 by 98Z5V

[Lr-308FUn]

It happened when timing the muzzle brake, I am sure you know what that is. I always tighten the brake and back off then tighten and back off, when doing this, the barrel suddenly started to rotate, that's when I noticed that the barrel extension came loose. I know this isn't suppose to happen, you can clearly see in those pics, which I took right after I took off the barrel nut. The barrel extension has no lock-tight or anything on it. The threads where oily, I have never had this happen before out of countless upper builds. I am just sharing this, to show that quality has really slacked here lately on firearm parts. This supposed to be a good barrel company. 

Again trust me, it did happen when I was timing the muzzle brake, not making this poop up. I also always use aero-shell barrel nut grease on all my threads even the muzzle when installing the brake. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Lr-308FUn

[Lr-308FUn]

15 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Barrel Index Pins don't lock the extension to the barrel - they never go deep enough to get into the threading, and they're not designed to.  What keeps the barrel extension ON the barrel is 175lb/ft of torque.  Not a typo.

BA will have you send the barrel back, and they'll give you another one, no questions asked.  Don't waste your time with the vendor, if that vendor wasn't BA directly. 

Yes, I had that happen once, on a 16" 300BLK barrel.  I fixed it at home, and it hasn't been a problem since.  Never will be, either.

 

I agree I could fix but I really don't have the equipment to torque that barrel extension on correctly. So I am going to let BA handle the situation. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Lr-308FUn

[98Z5V]

6 minutes ago, Lr-308FUn said:

It happened when timing the muzzle brake, I am sure you know what that is. I always tighten the brake and back off then tighten and back off,

Very well aware of putting on muzzle devices.  There's absolutely zero reason to do this, at all.  No need to tighten/loosen/repeat - at all.  Just put it on, with whatever timing device you're doing (crush washer, peel washer, shims) - you align it at the proper torque, and you're done. 

That process of tighten/loosen 3 times is for barrel nuts.  Not muzzle devices.

9 minutes ago, Lr-308FUn said:

The barrel extension has no lock-tight or anything on it.

There usually isn't anything on it - it doesn't need it.  It's supposed to be torqued to 175 FOOT POUNDS...   That's pretty damn tight, and well over anything else that you'll ever need to do to that barrel.  All other torque specs to a barrel are way less than that.

That one just wasn't torqued right, from assembly.  It happens.  It happened to me.  It's not common, that's for sure.

[Matt.Cross]

28 minutes ago, Lr-308FUn said:

This supposed to be a good barrel company. 

It's a great barrel company! Yours is the first and only barrel with their name on it that I've heard of or seen issues with...

Granted, you didn't get a good barrel. Noted.

It's their response that should determine your judgement, not one statistically insignificant anomaly.

[98Z5V]

22 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

It's a great barrel company! Yours is the first and only barrel with their name on it that I've heard of or seen issues with...

 

Indeed, and I agree.  I have 7 or 8 or 10 or their barrels, not sure how many, but I've never had a single issue with any of them, ever.  My .300BLK barrel was not from BA - but it was form another well-known company.

23 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

It's their response that should determine your judgement, not one statistically insignificant anomaly.

^^^  This, right here.  

[Lr-308FUn]

I agree with you that they are a good barrel company but my issue is that in the firearms industry they need to stop, slow down and get the job done correctly.

I understand that things happen and lemons get passed. 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Lr-308FUn

[98Z5V]

1 minute ago, Lr-308FUn said:

I agree with you that they are a good barrel company but my issue is that in the firearms industry they need to stop, slow down and get the job done correctly.

I understand that things happen and lemons get passed. 

 

 

Since this is a first-heard for this happening to a BA barrel - you're stating that you're a Zero-tolerance person.  No mistakes from a company, ever, are allowed...

[Matt.Cross]

16 minutes ago, Lr-308FUn said:

I agree with you that they are a good barrel company but my issue is that in the firearms industry they need to stop, slow down and get the job done correctly.

I understand that things happen and lemons get passed. 

Stop and/or slow down, on whose dime? Yours, mine? Certainly not on theirs, not when demand is at historic highs....

It's a demand-driven supply chain. Of course they're adding some liquor to their diesel (movie reference), but they gotta strike while the iron is hot. 

The reason they're reputable for being a great barrel company is that the overwhelming majority of their customers got a great product immediately. That you didn't is unfortunate but I'm pretty confident they will correct the issue at little if any cost.

[Lr-308FUn]

Not zero tolerance guy, just a measure twice guy, make sure the steps are done correctly.

I am sure they will take care of it. Its just frustrating that now I have to deal with taking the time to ship the barrel back, getting a new barrel etc. 

Also, when it comes to firearm industry I except more higher attention to detail, but yes lemons happen. 

[Lr-308FUn]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:58 PM, 98Z5V said:

Very well aware of putting on muzzle devices.  There's absolutely zero reason to do this, at all.  No need to tighten/loosen/repeat - at all.  Just put it on, with whatever timing device you're doing (crush washer, peel washer, shims) - you align it at the proper torque, and you're done. 

That process of tighten/loosen 3 times is for barrel nuts.  Not muzzle devices.

There usually isn't anything on it - it doesn't need it.  It's supposed to be torqued to 175 FOOT POUNDS...   That's pretty damn tight, and well over anything else that you'll ever need to do to that barrel.  All other torque specs to a barrel are way less than that.

That one just wasn't torqued right, from assembly.  It happens.  It happened to me.  It's not common, that's for sure.

I am hoping you know what I mean about timing a muzzle brake, I just saw this above response from you, and when timing a muzzle device like the one I was installing (see pic) you have to align the muzzle device correctly. The holes in the top of the brake (as shown in pic with yellow circle indicating what holes)  have to face upwards even with the gas block for the brake to function correctly. I wasn't installing a standard A2 flash hider on this 308 AR. It was the Strike Industries J-comp gen 2.
This is what I meant about timing the brake, because after hand tightening the the wholes where on the bottom of the barrel not facing upwards, so I tighten and loosen the brake to slowly orientate the muzzle device, when doing this that barrel extension came loose. 


 

[DNP]

I hope you know what he meant when he mentioned shims. If you had to crank hard enough to loosen the extension, either you needed a shim kit in there, or that extension was not torqued to spec - which could absolutely happen. 

[98Z5V]

19 hours ago, Lr-308FUn said:

I am hoping you know what I mean about timing a muzzle brake,

I'm very, very intimately F A M I L I A R with timing muzzle devices. 

My information still stands - you do NOT tighten and loosen 3 times for a muzzle device.  That's for barrel nuts, not muzzle devices. Go research crush washers, peel washers, and timing shims. 

I bet you put that thing straight on your barrel, and tried to make it line up...  

Edited May 6, 2021 by 98Z5V

[DNP]

[Rsquared]

On 5/5/2021 at 10:04 PM, DNP said:

Now THAT's too god damn funny right there.

[unforgiven]

Just got to want it.

[98Z5V]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:17 PM, Lr-308FUn said:

I am hoping you know what I mean about timing a muzzle brake, I just saw this above response from you, and when timing a muzzle device like the one I was installing (see pic) you have to align the muzzle device correctly. 

What was the outcome here?   1st - Did BA take care of you?   2nd - did you install this brake straight onto the barrel, with no washers or shims at all, and try to make it line up?

[98Z5V]

He hasn't been here since May 6th, but I quoted him, so it goes to his email notifications - unless he turned those off.  With a short time here, I doubt that happened - so he knows about this post update, and my reply.

I'm betting he torqued that muzzle device on there with NOTHING in between the barrel - NADA...   And his misunderstanding was that it's "3 time tight, 3 times loose, then FINAL TORQUE..." 

...Like a barrel nut. 

I think his muzzle device went on 3 times tight - with ZERO shims, washers, nothing there between the barrel...  Directly applied to the barrel, nothing in between... 

On 4/28/2021 at 7:20 PM, Lr-308FUn said:

I have been building ARs for decades now

 

Oh, really?...  DECADES? 

Since he knows so much about TIMING A MUZZLE DEVICE, like he stated to me so many times...    That thing went on there BARE, and he tried to time it. Completely OBLIVIOUS...

In my Very Humble, Honest Opinion, HE fucked up his BA Barrel, all by himself, due to his own lack of knowledge of building these things.

BA didn't do this, with a loose extension.  Fun-boy did this to himself, through a complete ignorance of building these things.  Small=Frame, Large-Frame - doesn't matter.  It's a complete ignorance of building AR platforms, here.

It's definitely NOT a problem with any BA Barrels.  Not that I've ever witnessed. 

I'll wait for his response to his own thread...  

Edited May 28, 2021 by 98Z5V

[Lr-308FUn]

I used a crush washer, like I always when installing a muzzle brake.

When I install a muzzle brake, I hand tighten it down on the crush washer then using a wrench 🔧, I tighten then lossen the brake to season the threads and spread the anti-seize I use on the threads. Doing this slowly aligns the muzzle brake correctly. This also makes sure one isn't cross threading the muzzle threads as well. 

There is no way that doing this could have caused a barrel extension to come loose. 

I have done it this way for over 20 years and never had an issue. Also, those barrel extensions are torqued down to 175+ ft lbs and a loc-tight is used as well, one can clearly see in those pics that there is no loc-tight on those threads of that barrel extension. 

So again I used a s have always used crush washers or jam nuts on all my muzzle brake installs. 

There is no way doing this muzzle brake installs that the barrel extension could have come loose. There isn't enough torque on the barrel to cause any issues with the extension when installing a muzzle brake.

Also, the barrel is in a barrel vise blocks and when timing the brake the barrel moved in the barrel vise jaws, unscrewing from the barrel extension. I always used barrel vise blocks when installing a brake this way there is no tension on the upper when installing a muzzle device.

Thank you and have a great day. 

[Matt.Cross]

3 hours ago, Lr-308FUn said:

I tighten then lossen the brake to season the threads

Being that I'm but a mere machinist and layperson, please explain what "season the threads" means...

[Cunuckgaucho]

13 hours ago, Matt.Cross said:

Being that I'm but a mere machinist and layperson, please explain what "season the threads" means...

While I'm partial to Montreal Steak spice I have it on good authority that Dillo Dust is the go to for 308 seasoning...

[Matt.Cross]

16 minutes ago, Cunuckgaucho said:

While I'm partial to Montreal Steak spice I have it on good authority that Dillo Dust is the go to for 308 seasoning...

Well, there you have it. Since "threads" is American slang for clothing, I was misreading this as a possible reference to starching clothes.

I stand corrected. 

[Cunuckgaucho]

3 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

I stand corrected. 

I think I'm the one standing corrected, I made assumptions as to the definition of 'threads' and we all know what happens when one assumes 🙂