GS455 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) 1) Finally got my Virgin Rock River LAR8 Elite Operator out to the range today for function test and roughing in with an ACOG. The VERY FIRST ROUND had it’s rim ripped off failing to extract. This is Portugese Milsurp. Fired plenty in my FAL and M1A wi no previous problems. Fortunately a light tap of a cleaning rod and it popped right out. 2) Cycled a few and had a fail to feed. Stuck angled up from the mag into the receiver. Later I had a couple more fail-to-feeds but I might attribute this to the beat up old metric FAL mags we were using (although never had a problem in my FAL). 3) My curious machinist buddy grabbed a few of the spent rounds and noticed what looked like very light roughening up of the brass as a result of being in the chamber. Almost as though the inside of the chamber was like fine sandpaper. I don't think I've ever noticed anything like this before. Anybody ever see or notice anything like these issued in an LAR8EO? PS: I will say that after a little time sighting in wearing a Trijicon TA11E ACOG I was picking off all small steel targets out to 300yds. Haven’t measure any groups on paper yet. PSII: When I initially received the rifle it had a terrible trigger pull like pulling a tuff spring wi no second stage. Sent it to RR and they had it back in less than two weeks wi a new trigger group. Now its beautiful. Edited October 1, 2013 by GS455 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibiwan Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Methinks you need to send it back to have the chamber checked - especially since it's brand new. Send the empty cartridges along with it too... -S Edited October 1, 2013 by shibiwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Three of your photos are missing but the first one of the rifle is there. Mine eat all sorts of ammo. The only one that has an issue is the CBC M80...and those are difficult (not impossible) to extract. Any chance you can repost those three photos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS455 Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Three of your photos are missing but the first one of the rifle is there. Mine eat all sorts of ammo. The only one that has an issue is the CBC M80...and those are difficult (not impossible) to extract. Any chance you can repost those three photos? Ooops. reset pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 I'm at a loss...my brass doesn't look like that. Call RRA, see what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Hi GS that milsurp you got there is some old crummy ammo in my opinion....you have a brand new sweet expensive rifle...with a tight new chamber....why dont you shoot some nice 308 ammo while its breaking in? your problems will prolly go away :) Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Hi GS that milsurp you got there is some old crummy ammo in my opinion....you have a brand new sweet expensive rifle...with a tight new chamber....why dont you shoot some nice 308 ammo while its breaking in? your problems will prolly go away :) Wash I agree, I would start off by shooting as much quality .308 as you can for a minimum of 100 rounds. And run that lady wetter than prom night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas30cal Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Different ammo may very well fix it so by all means try, but I built a dpms pattern rifle with a barrel that was supposedly made by Mossberg and it did exactly the same thing, the brass looked like yours and it would rip the rim off and had to tap the empty out with a cleaning rod, in fact if I pulled the charge handle back and let it fly as you should then I could not open it back up by hand, I had to pull on the handle and bump the stock on the ground to get it open (kind of scary). When I asked a local gunsmith that I have known for a while he said it was probably rough and or tight, with close inspection it was definitely rough, he suggested polishing, he had me remove the barrel and put it in my lathe using a dowel with a slot in the end and start with 600 paper but only for a few seconds then switched to 1000 and polished until it felt smooth with the dowel. He had me take extra care to not get the paper on the end of the dowel so I didn't work on the shoulder inside the chamber and use the corner of the dowel to feel the shoulder. He checked it for headspace and it was good, he does mostly bolt action work but he polishes like this often and has never had a issue with making the chamber too big, it really isn't removing very much material at all. I have never had another problem and the brass looks normal now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I agree, I would start off by shooting as much quality .308 as you can for a minimum of 100 rounds. And run that lady wetter than prom night! This. Agree 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I agree with a good break in. But if GS455 is someone that's waited a year plus on the rifle, I'd expect it to be proper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Different ammo may very well fix it so by all means try, but I built a dpms pattern rifle with a barrel that was supposedly made by Mossberg and it did exactly the same thing, the brass looked like yours and it would rip the rim off and had to tap the empty out with a cleaning rod, in fact if I pulled the charge handle back and let it fly as you should then I could not open it back up by hand, I had to pull on the handle and bump the stock on the ground to get it open (kind of scary). When I asked a local gunsmith that I have known for a while he said it was probably rough and or tight, with close inspection it was definitely rough, he suggested polishing, he had me remove the barrel and put it in my lathe using a dowel with a slot in the end and start with 600 paper but only for a few seconds then switched to 1000 and polished until it felt smooth with the dowel. He had me take extra care to not get the paper on the end of the dowel so I didn't work on the shoulder inside the chamber and use the corner of the dowel to feel the shoulder. He checked it for headspace and it was good, he does mostly bolt action work but he polishes like this often and has never had a issue with making the chamber too big, it really isn't removing very much material at all. I have never had another problem and the brass looks normal now.If you don't have a lathe try a drill or as planeflyer21 call em up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS455 Posted October 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) If you don't have a lathe try a drill or as planeflyer21 call em up! Yea . . . . I don't think wi what this costs and the time I waited I'd entertain putting it in a lathe. Maybe if it was an older used rifle. Gonna be several weeks before I can get to the range again but I would go back using the Thermold mag that came with it and bust out some of the good stuff to break it in further. A few people on another board suggested it was over-gassed as well. Not sure how that symptome is evident or what that looks like. I will probably go ahead and send it back to RR and let them look at this under warranty along with some of the spent brass. We'll see what they say. Edited October 2, 2013 by GS455 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 That ammo is mil-surp, and it's 30 years and 7 months old, right now. You can't guarantee that it was ever stored properly, at all, and the brass isn't schit by now. Get some NEW, good ammo, shoot it, and see what happens. I'd be curious. Also, that was the first round - it's brand new. You need to run a few through it to see how everything functions. That first round is kinda like putting ten targets up, firing one round apiece at them, hitting the dead center on one, and saying "My rifle is dead nuts ON!" You need to see the variation in more rounds fired, before you can really judge what the rifle is doing. My $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas30cal Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 There are also flex hones just for polishing rifle chambers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I agree with a good break in. But if GS455 is someone that's waited a year plus on the rifle, I'd expect it to be proper. Jon i waited a year for a gal give up her p-mag.....it wasnt proper either :) moral of the story.....if its new and tight....use fresh shiney ammo with lots of lube......not old corroded foreign ball ammo cause if you do all you will get is a rim job like the first pic :) Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Your chamber is ROUGH!!!!! All the shooting in the world won't help! or, will help a little, but polishing is the correct way to do it. Just polish the chamber! Or have your gunsmith polish it. Taking the bbl off takes more time than the actual polishing. I'v done many hundreds of these. plus, I polish every bbl that I chamber. Only had a ctg stick once, when I forgot to polish the chamber. I got inturpted in the chambering process. Respectfully Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas30cal Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 I would either send it back or use thishttp://www.midwayusa.com/product/598130/flex-hone-rifle-chamber-hone-762x51mm-nato-14-800-grit if you don't want to remove the barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS455 Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Brand new rifle under warranty. I'm not going to touch it. I spoke to the fellow at RR that replaced my trigger group. He is concerned and wants to see the entire rifle (not just the upper) as well as any spent brass I saved. I got a call back from RR less than a day after I sent an email with these pics and description. They are sending a call tag for pick up and are covering shipping back to them. Hat's off to RR for phenomenal customer service - thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 That's damn cool of them - they should do it, but that's a fast turnaround on their part. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas30cal Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 That is good to hear, they are doing exactly what they should be doing, all manufacturers should be that helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Correct me if im wrong,but doesnt RR have a diatribe on their website that sez if you shoot such and such ammo out of your rifle it voids the warranty? Or is that another ar mfg company? If it was me I wouldnt be sending any of that junk milsurp brass to them...just sayin :) Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 heres the one for dpms ill bet RR has somewhat of the same policy :) Wash "After extensive testing, we have found that only ammunition manufactured to SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) specifications is reliable in DPMS rifles. DPMS recommends the use of high quality, domestically produced ammunition for best results and highest accuracy. For plinking and practice, we recommend only domestic, commercially manufactured ammunition. Please note: the use of hand-loaded ammunition voids the factory warranty. The use of all ammunition listed below also voids the warranty. We have incurred feeding problems with the following: Israeli ammunition Korean ammunition Chilean ammunition Portugese ammunition" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 ^^^ That's definitely on the DPMS site. http://www.dpmsinc.com/Ammunitions-Warning_ep_59-1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS455 Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 If it was me I wouldnt be sending any of that junk milsurp brass to them...just sayin :) Wash Huh. I've run many hundred rounds of this NATO ammo through both my M1A and FAL with neither ripped rims nor roughed up brass. May not be the most accurate stuff but and I am not an expert but I can't see how this is an ammo problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Huh. I've run many hundred rounds of this NATO ammo through both my M1A and FAL with neither ripped rims nor roughed up brass. May not be the most accurate stuff but and I am not an expert but I can't see how this is an ammo problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Huh? Did you read 98Z's post bout crap milsurp, then my post bout milsurp ammo voiding warranties with DPMS, and just maybe RR too? and then 98Z's post after that? Geez I gotta quit answering questions in the middle of the night ::) Wash Edited October 3, 2013 by washguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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