Atakachafa Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Well to start this is my first post o here so HELLO. Now to get to it. I have a Rem. R-25 and when I first picked it up all those years ago I had some sort of feeing issue (I don't remember what it was I was young and didn't have a clue about AR's) but my local gunsmith thought maybe I had a "short throat," so I loaded some compressed rounds and never looked back. Flash forward to now and I bought some CBC M80 Ball ammo... bad idea... Failure to load, failure to strip, failure to extract, ripped case heads, cracked case necks, and couldn't even get a 2" group at 100m. Took the few old compressed hand loads I had and shot like a dream... loaded up some new rounds(not compressed) and out of 10 rounds 2 will strip, feed, and extract every time while the others will not. More often then not the round will not feed all the way into the chamber. If I drop the mag and drop a round in by hand it wont slide all the way in(the compressed rounds will) and I have to send the bold home to seat it the rest of the way, but why have mag gun that you cant use a mag in. The two sets of hand loads are 180g I don't know what the CBC was. So I guess in short... what the heck is wrong? This happens with either the factory 4 round mag and both of my p-mags. The photos are of "gravity fed" rounds, you can see how the compressed round seats further down then the standard round. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Welcome from Indiana brother Travis.Someone here will come along with some insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atakachafa Posted November 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Thank you. Finally decided to make an account here rather then just ghosting all the time. By the way Ill be the first to admit that I am not well versed in firearms. Two of my best friends are gunsmiths so when something goes wrong I hand it over to them. This time I wanna see if I can dig up something on my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Thank you. Finally decided to make an account here rather then just ghosting all the time. By the way Ill be the first to admit that I am not well versed in firearms. Two of my best friends are gunsmiths so when something goes wrong I hand it over to them. This time I wanna see if I can dig up something on my own. Hey neither am I but I learn something new here weekly, and been trying to do stuff myself also. Welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibiwan Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Welcome from AZ. Have you tried any other factory loads besides the CBC M80? Seems like a chamber issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seasprite Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Might try sooting up some re sized cases and seeing were the case is hanging up in the chamber by the carbon transfer. You might have a tight chamber were you need small based dies. If you do this scrap the cases after use because of heating the case web with the candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Flash forward to now and I bought some CBC M80 Ball ammo...THIS is entirely your problem. CBC M80 ball (147gr btw) is TERRIBLE ammo. I had all of the same issues as you (FTE, FTF, popped primers) with CBC M80, and I could never get through 10rnds without a malfunction of some sort with my PWS MK216. CBC 168gr "Sniper" ammo has been reliable for me though, as has Prvi M80 ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Have you tried shooting "quality" off the shelf ammo yet? Grab a box of Federal Premium and see if this happens. It's quite possible your rifle just doesn't like the heavy stuff. How does the 147gr mil surplus stuff shoot in your rifle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atakachafa Posted November 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) I only shot 20 rounds of the CBC then sold it, all the other ammo has been reloaded by me. New brass and good dies (I competition shoot and have never had a problem with this ammo in my other rifle). I am picking up two boxes of the best quality off the shelf .308 after work. Called DPMS and learned that the first lot of R25's did have some issues with a short throat... took some 147's 168's and 180's all loaded to "standard" specs... all had the same issue. Ill update later tonight after I get the factory ammo though I feel it wont make a difference. I feel I know I what is wrong and I have just been trying to deny it. I have shot Mil Surp in my rifle before but it was before(maybe 6 rounds) and after figuring out why my rifle wouldn't set off the thicker primers, I do not recall and issues with that ammo. I will make note to pick up some of that as well. Thank you everyone for the info thus far. In short, tonight I will be trying "shelf" ammo of good quality and surplus ammo. I will update as soon as I am done somewhere around 2000 Mountain Time. Edited November 4, 2013 by Atakachafa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atakachafa Posted November 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 THIS is entirely your problem. CBC M80 ball (147gr btw) is TERRIBLE ammo. I had all of the same issues as you (FTE, FTF, popped primers) with CBC M80, and I could never get through 10rnds without a malfunction of some sort with my PWS MK216. CBC 168gr "Sniper" ammo has been reliable for me though, as has Prvi M80 ball. that is by far the worst ammo I have ever seen... id run steel case in my AUG before I put CBC in my R25 again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibiwan Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Called DPMS and learned that the first lot of R25's did have some issues with a short throat... took some 147's 168's and 180's all loaded to "standard" specs... all had the same issue. Ill update later tonight after I get the factory ammo though I feel it wont make a difference. Go check the factory loads first and then if they keep getting stuck, call DPMS/Remington and give them crap. I'm sure they'll replace your barrel (or the entire rifle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 What you need to find out is , what's different about your compressed loads that let them work . Short chamber or not. Check the head space of the chamber & that will tell you if it is out of spec's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atakachafa Posted November 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 So my gunsmith buddy brought me over several of his store bought competition rounds along with some misc stuff. The Remington and Winchester worked fine, the Federal and Mil-Surp did NOT, and neither did any of his hand loads. His thoughts "the two brands that worked were in his opinion the best quality rounds he brought by far..." he thinks I may have little bit of a short throat AND a match chamber which is why my rifle is being sooooo picky with the ammo. He took the gun with him to confirm this. I will know by tomorrow evening. If that is the case I am fine running only the Rem or Win ammo. BTW he read everything that was posted in this thread looking for a good laugh at what people thought(much like watching the idiots on sons of guns) but he wanted me to post that he was very surprised at how well your answers or thoughts were in regards to my issue and he apologizes for the offence you felt when you read the first sentence of this. "good forum, good tips...I might have to join this one" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 Glad that you found something.... But interesting if the federal was GMM and did not work, as it is regarded as the standard go to round for match bullets. Either way, stock up on whatever works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 Just a thought, The R-25 is a rifle focused for hunting. That might be why mil surp ammo doesn't feed and why good hunting ammo works. This could be the difference between a good match .308 and a 7.62x51. We don't see it common around here, but then again there aren't many hunting designated rifles built by mfg's. I've always been a fan of the R-25 and the design features implemented in their rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibiwan Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 Just a thought, The R-25 is a rifle focused for hunting. That might be why mil surp ammo doesn't feed and why good hunting ammo works. This could be the difference between a good match .308 and a 7.62x51. We don't see it common around here, but then again there aren't many hunting designated rifles built by mfg's. I've always been a fan of the R-25 and the design features implemented in their rifles. I always thought the R25 is just a DPMS LR308 with fancy camo... hmm interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 I always thought the R25 is just a DPMS LR308 with fancy camo... hmm interesting. I thought that too. I know they have special barrels that you can only get with the R-25. I thought it was just the profile that was special... Remington wanted to get as far away as possible from the "combat rifle" stigma. Maybe making their rifles unable to use mil 7.62 ammo was part of that. All that aside, I'm still a big fan of the R-25 as a hunting rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seasprite Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 I thought that too. I know they have special barrels that you can only get with the R-25. I thought it was just the profile that was special... Remington wanted to get as far away as possible from the "combat rifle" stigma. Maybe making their rifles unable to use mil 7.62 ammo was part of that. All that aside, I'm still a big fan of the R-25 as a hunting rifle. If thats the case we need to know what the barrel is stamped with .308 or 7.62. I know DPMS says not to run nato ammo in there .308 chamber because of it being a tight chamber and won't feed the 7.62. Atakachafa, do you know what your barrel is chambered for .308 or 7.62? It should be stamped on your barrel somewhere probably under the hand guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 thats why when someone is having a problem and they are shooting 762 or nato..I always suggest go to 308...and FGMM is my go to checkout ammo....hmmmm....well its lookin like a chamber issue....have your guy polish or ream that sucker out :auto: Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atakachafa Posted November 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 If thats the case we need to know what the barrel is stamped with .308 or 7.62. I know DPMS says not to run nato ammo in there .308 chamber because of it being a tight chamber and won't feed the 7.62. Atakachafa, do you know what your barrel is chambered for .308 or 7.62? It should be stamped on your barrel somewhere probably under the hand guard. the hand guard is a beast to get off this rifle for whatever reason... but the mag well is stamped .308 WIN. Though there is without a doubt some problem, I have now found(after being "detailed" at the shop) that SEVERAL different brands of factory ammo are working while others are not. I literally went through EVERY brand and weight my gun shop hand including their person stock, finding what worked and didn't. I may be wrong here but I have always been under the impression that Barnes ammo was of "better" quality, found out the Rachel doesn't like feeding them either, but anyways I found and acceptable round to use for deer and coyotes (ordered 5 boxes) while my competition rounds still function fine. Problem solved...Er... managed. Thank you everyone for the knowledge, pointers, and the time to type them for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atakachafa Posted November 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I thought that too. I know they have special barrels that you can only get with the R-25. I thought it was just the profile that was special... Remington wanted to get as far away as possible from the "combat rifle" stigma. Maybe making their rifles unable to use mil 7.62 ammo was part of that. All that aside, I'm still a big fan of the R-25 as a hunting rifle. same here... DPMS told me that if I want to buy anything for my rifle(hand guard at that time) look for LR308 things as they are BASICALLY the same. Never thought to ask for the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seasprite Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 the hand guard is a beast to get off this rifle for whatever reason... but the mag well is stamped .308 WIN. Though there is without a doubt some problem, I have now found(after being "detailed" at the shop) that SEVERAL different brands of factory ammo are working while others are not. I literally went through EVERY brand and weight my gun shop hand including their person stock, finding what worked and didn't. I may be wrong here but I have always been under the impression that Barnes ammo was of "better" quality, found out the Rachel doesn't like feeding them either, but anyways I found and acceptable round to use for deer and coyotes (ordered 5 boxes) while my competition rounds still function fine. Problem solved...Er... managed. Thank you everyone for the knowledge, pointers, and the time to type them for me. Glad your getting it figured out so you can run it the way you want. <thumbsup> As far as the stamping on the receiver I know DPMS will stamp LR308 on all there large frame receivers even though the chamber is different. If the Remington is just a rebadge DPMS since Cerberus owns them both it might be the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atakachafa Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Glad your getting it figured out so you can run it the way you want. <thumbsup> As far as the stamping on the receiver I know DPMS will stamp LR308 on all there large frame receivers even though the chamber is different. If the Remington is just a rebadge DPMS since Cerberus owns them both it might be the same? I think you hit it dead on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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