survivalshop

I read that part about the bullet is imperfect & thought the same thing , wonder if the bullet manufacturers know this <laughs> You know , all this about getting a couple of CUP from a certain barrel or twist rate is kinda made me think , if thats what someone thinks is keeping them from getting better groups , I believe they have got other problems keeping them from attaining better ones. No doubt that the weight of the bullet can determine the twist rate , to some extent , that is published fact , not to mention has scientific fact surrounding it by long range shooters. As has been said , there is far too much that relates to ammo , shooter & the capability of the shooter , that determines how a rifle shoots . The merry go round of what rifling is a better shooter is mote . Getting a good barrel from a reputable manufacturer is !

Sorry to hear of your loss , FaRKle!. Gather your data when you get the chance .

Five pages of different type of mounting . http://www.brownells.com/optics-mounting/rings-mounts-amp-bases/index.htm?k=red%20dot%20sight%20mounts

A Book club , we can chat over tea & crumpets . <laughs>

Bullet was probably not hot on that 220 swift , just constructed wrong for the Velocity it was shot at or loaded too hot for bullet construction , same thing. I have a hard time understanding how the rifling twist rate will change chamber pressure . If same caliber , the barrel will be rifled with spec's for that caliber . I can see its possible , but it won't be much & where are the scientific pressure readings to back this stuff up. There are too many factors involved in chamber pressure , you can get a batch of not to spec bullets or the manufacturer may use a different construction or material , jacket thickness & so on & it will effect chamber pressure & down range velocity , just far too many factors involved to get any good comparison between two barrels . I have been lucky in getting very good shooting barrels , because I know its not me . <dontknow> Nice to see another 16" 308 barrel fan. I find the date on the target in post # 11 ,kinda strange or are you just getting a head start on load testing , 8-10-18 ? <laughs>

I think you will find that chamber /barrel pressure has little to to do with what twist rate the barrel is . Now what type or how many lands & groves , might ,but that is not something even most barrel makers have the ability to measure accurately . The 1-10 ,IMO, shoots just about every thing , with good results , But that's your call , some swear by the slower twist rates , for long range with heavy bullets I never owned any with other than 1-10 , so I can't compare the different twist rate barrels . Obermeyer Approved 5-R™ Style Rifling Now Available! (PLEASE completely read description below) Thanks to approval by Boots Obermeyer, Krieger Barrels, Inc. is now offering the true Obermeyer 5-R™ rifling pattern as an option on limited calibers with our barrels. At this time we are limiting the 5-R™ option to the calibers listed below, but may offer others in the future as greater demand arises. PLEASE NOTE: We are not currently, and have no future plans to offer 5-R™ rifling in our finished 'Gas Gun' lines of M14, M1 Garand, AR-15, and AR-10 variants. Nor will we make a 5-R™ blank longer than 33" (32" finish length). 5-R™ rifling is ONLY available in standard bore/groove dimensions listed and standard twist rates (**) at this time. Please call if you have questions about availability of a certain caliber/twist combination. There is a $30.00 up-charge to the base cost of the barrel for 5-R™ rifling. Currently available bolt gun calibers with 5-R™ rifling: 6mm (.236" & .237" bore diameters, .243" groove) ** NO twist slower than 1-9 for 6mm 5-R™ barrels are available. Good authority has shown that short, light, 6mm bullets do not perform well in most 5-R™ barrels. We have no knowledge as to why, but do not want to risk an inaccurate Krieger Barrel being on the market. 6.5mm (.256" bore, .264" groove) 7mm (.277" bore, .284" groove) .30T Palma (.298" bore & .3065", .3070" & .3075" groove diameters) .308 cal (.300" bore, .308" groove) .338 cal (.330" bore, .338" groove) Description of 5-R™ rifling: Visual aid to describe our 5-R™ style of rifling. Some dimensions have been changed to allow a better understanding of the rifling style. *Sides of groove have a 'ramped' transition to the land. Not to scale Visual aid to describe our traditional 4 groove rifling. Some dimensions have been changed to allow a better understanding of the rifling style. *Sides of groove are nearly parallel. Not to scale The Obermeyer 5-R™ style rifling is simply a different style of rifling that has a more 'ramped', or angled transition from the groove to the land and back down from the land to the next groove. Our conventional 4 groove rifling has nearly parallel sides to the groove. The internet is full of information describing perceived benefits to the 5-R™ rifling over conventional styles, but most of this is comparing "apples to oranges" as they are usually comparing one manufacturer's "non 5-R™" to a different manufacturer's "5-R™" barrels. We have honestly seen no significant differences in accuracy or performance between the two styles of rifling when comparing our barrels. Thank you, Krieger Barrels Quick Links Home Online Order Form PLEASE READ Barrel Making & Steel FITTINGS: Accepted Receivers 5-R Rifling Calibers & Prices Contours Services Fluting M1Garand & M1A/M14 DCM & AR-15 AR-10/DPMS-LR M-110 Service Rifle Handguards Break-In & Cleaning Test Barrels Henry Style Rifling Contact Us Support & Order Form FAQ Overseas Proper Reloading Practices Links Special Runs & Closeouts Inventory List Stay In Touch Bookmark this site! Copyright 2014 ® Krieger Barrels inc. All rights reserved. Contact Us

Never heard of them ,but you should pick one up , just to let us know if they make a good enough product for us to use <thumbsup> <laughs> I like the review where he used 4X to see mill marks , WTF

What are you resting the Bipod on ? I use a small , folded rag under the legs feet , if I'm on a bench , especially if its made of Concrete . The harmonics make them bounce. Definitely sand bag rests help , both front & back .

Is there going to be an Upper receiver made by you to match the lower ?

I don't see any problems with 1-10 twist barreled 308's , they can be very accurate with a very wide range of bullets . Its the most widely used rifling twist for .30 cal. barrels . What is meant by " looser twist " ?

Interesting Camo Patterns there Robo . So who uses them with a back pack ?

They do not make one to fit the low profile , newer version of the DPMS upper receiver , last time I looked .

I would recommend JP's hand guard , but they only fit ( as far as rail height ) the older rail height upper receivers . Photo shows a Tactical Machining ,DPMS type upper receiver ( low ) & a 308 JP hand guard rail . I have an older , Fulton Armory screw on one with the cinch nut on another 308 , but it is also the old rail height & its matched up to a DPMS upper receive with the older (high ) rail height. far right , 20"rifle , notice both 308AR's are rifle length gas systems & if you want to cover the gas block , I think the Hand Guard has to be at least 12" or more , I believe . Others here who cover there gas blocks can tell you what they have .

Doesn't surprise me. Change it out to something you can use & upgrade , instead of jury rigging one .

All I can say is " I want a cookie " . <laughs>

Yes , but I have a lot of help spreading the cost around . <thumbsup>

Man , I would hate to pay for the reloading supplies for that !

If cases are to SAMMI spec's , they better have the same extractor grove configurations , but foreign made brass may be different . Even for hunting ammo , the difference in grouping can be effected by case volume at normal hunting ranges . Weighing the case & putting them in weight groups , is the easiest way to segregate by case volume , the exterior dimensions of the brass case are all going to be to SAMMI spec's , so any weight loss or gain will be in case thickness , which translates to volume . If just making plinking ammo , not a big deal to have a flyer or two or group size . Consistency in ammo making can make you a better shooter & a more ethical hunter. IMO

If its got an M4 stock , you can use one of these , but not sure of quality of product .http://www.amazon.com/Cheek-Riser-pieces-Standard-collapsible/dp/B008FDIW68 or http://store.commandarms.com/products/saddle-fits-collapsible-stocks/

I'm not familiar with the Hydraulic buffer , but I would install the proper factory AR 10 Buffing system ( spring & buffer ) & test fire the rifle with the factory components installed. What weight bullets were in the different ammo tried ?

What I want to know is ,Why only one warning point ? Surely this infraction ,to insult most other firearms we discuss here , is worth at least two. <laughs>

If all components are secure & with in spec's , proper shooting technique & practice will make a difference in groups . As already has been said here , the cold bore shot will be a little off ,but shouldn't be very much , of course depending on range they are shot at. Whats the round count on the barrel ? I'm not a fan of bore snakes , they have the potential of redepositing abrasive materials already removed from the bore, not to mention what said particles could do to a nicely lapped match bore . Cleaning of the bore snake may or may not remove imbedded particles from the mop part .Bore brush & clean patches do the best cleaning . As long as you are not using a copper solvent , you should not lose your bore seasoning . According to the Army match Armorers , it takes 40 -60 rounds to re-season a bore to tighten groups after a copper solvent bore scrubbing. From there data , they go from 11/2" groups to 1/2 "inch groups after re-seasoning shots.

I'm sure you won't see someone like that here <laughs>

What no photo's , how do we know if its a real one <dontknow>

Done deal .