Looking for a true semi-automatic .308

[Timbuck2]

Hello all, new to the forum.  Wanted to know if anyone has any thoughts or recommendations for a semi-automatic .308.  Without getting into the same debate that they are interchangeable, I am looking for a rifle that is an actual .308.  It seems that most AR10's are chambered in 7.62.  Springfield shows the M1A (Scout would have been my first choice until I started looking closely) as 7.62 (.308), which lets me believe they are really chambered in 7.62.  The Remington BAR is listed as a .308, but has a limited number of rounds due to the box magazine (yeah I saw the new model that uses a different mag, but I have my heart set on flat dark earth).  I would not mind having something in an AR-10 style, but would want something on the DPMS frame so I could use larger capacity magazines.  I am not looking to go hunting, but just want one mostly for target shooting, or if stuff happens.  I have several AR15's in 5.56/223, and I have a good bolt action rifle (Browning X-bolt) in 30.06.

 

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance

[blue109]

Welcome to legoland. Many of the 308AR barrels are 308. Are you looking to build or buy? Also, new armalites can use the larger capacity mags like the DPMS guns.

Edited May 5, 2015 by blue109

[Timbuck2]

Thanks blue, I am looking to buy, but have resigned myself to possibly having something built.  No time, patience, or real skills (including space to build one myself)

[planeflyer21]

Welcome from AZ.

 

The Rock River LAR-8s are all chambered .308 Win, as are most of the other brands I've looked across.

[BLKSHEEP]

There are several off the shelf available in .308, If you want a custom built 308AR this gentleman will build to your specifications > http://www.dtprecision.com/  he's a member of this forum.

[wetncold]

But, they are the same! Just like 223 and 5.56. It's just the military designation.

[98Z5V]

But, they are the same! Just like 223 and 5.56. It's just the military designation.

 

That's a very, very inaccurate statement.  .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO are not the same, and there are vast pressure differences between the two, with the 5.56 NATO having the higher pressure.  You run enough 5.56 through a .223 Rem chamber, and you're eventually going to have a very big problem on your hands - if you have hands left.

 

OP, have one built, build it yourself, either way - run the Fulton Armory barrel, as he chambers his in a .308 WIn/7.62x51 Hybrid Match  chamber.  then, you have no doubt that you can shoot what you want, in your mind.

[ChaseFan9]

That's a very, very inaccurate statement. .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO are not the same, and there are vast pressure differences between the two, with the 5.56 NATO having the higher pressure. You run enough 5.56 through a .223 Rem chamber, and you're eventually going to have a very big problem on your hands - if you have hands left.

OP, have one built, build it yourself, either way - run the Fulton Armory barrel, as he chambers his in a .308 WIn/7.62x51 Hybrid Match chamber. then, you have no doubt that you can shoot what you want, in your mind.

If you've got the patience, Black Hole Weaponry will make a match barrel to your specs (though they only use the non-armalite pattern extension, so only dpms style bolts), and I believe they chamber them in .308, among other calibers.

They say it takes 6-12 weeks, but for the price it's worth the wait. I'll let you know how they shoot once mine gets here, headspaced, and installed.

[98Z5V]

Not worth the wait, when you can pick it up from Rainier Arms, in stock. 

[ChaseFan9]

BTW, since there are so many different answers out there on the .308 vs 7.62 pressure that all contradict each other, here's something that might clear it up a little bit:

http://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.html

[98Z5V]

We've had extensive conversations about this, with tons of information pinned on the topic.  Bottom line is this:  If you're running an old surplus rifle chambered for 7.62x51, then don't run .308 Win ammo through it, because of the supposed pressure differences (two different methods of measurement were used to come up with the max pressures). 

 

So, old surplus rifle = no .308 Win ammo. 

 

Modern rifles really don't matter.  Really.  In a modern rifle, it doesn't matter how the barrel is stamped.  Run what you have, for ammo, be it old surplus (verify the source), or commercial off the shelf stuff in 308...

Edited May 6, 2015 by 98Z5V

[ChaseFan9]

We've had extensive conversations about this, with tons of information pinned on the topic. Bottom line is this: If you're running an old surplus rifle chambered for 7.62x51, then don't run .308 Win ammo through it, because of the supposed pressure differences (two different methods of measurement were used to come up with the max pressures).

So, old surplus rifle = no .308 Win ammo.

Modern rifles really don't matter. Really. In a modern rifle, it doesn't matter how the barrel is stamped. Run what you have, for ammo, be it old surplus (verify the source), or commercial off the shelf stuff in 308...

THAT is what I was waiting for, 98, sorry for the prodding :)

[survivalshop]

  One thing they don't say is that the actual cartridge dimensions ( with the same bullet ) are the same , be it a 308,7.62x51 or .223, 5.56x45 . I guess I should have no face or hands by now because of all the wrong ammo shot in the wrong chambers . 

  The whole 308/7.62x51 issue is blown out of proportion . AS is its smaller brother .

 

  What 98 said is spot on . 

[Timbuck2]

Thanks to all for the advice and wisdom.  Thanks to ChaseFan for the link, pressure aside, the headspace is/was what I am most concerned with for shooting differences.  I will concede and admit that today's off the shelf factory rounds are probably going to be okay.  That being said I do not have a gauge, nor am I willing to check each and every round; after witnessing first-hand my buddy's Sig Saur P238 blow up in his had from an overcharged round, I have realized it only takes one.  Yes I know there are significant differences in hand guns and rifles, but I do not want to be chancing that unless absolutely necessary.  In summary to those that think 7.62 and .308 are the same:

 

Saami 308Win:
GO 1.630
NO GO 1.634
FIELD 1.638

7.62NATO (M14 US MILSPEC):
GO 1.6355
NOGO 1.638
FIELD 1.6445
 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Timbuck2

[survivalshop]

  Those are head space gages for the Chambers , the actual cartridges or ammo have the exact same overall dimensions . the only difference is in the case base webbing is thicker on 7.62x51 then the commercial 308 & thats internal in the case  , not outside .

  I use .308 head space gages to check all my 308's , be it a .308 or 7.62x51 , even the Hybrid chambers . I don't recall ever seeing a 7.62x51 reloading die set  <dontknow>

[Microgunner]

Thanks for the great info guys.

[ChaseFan9]

Thanks for the great info guys.

That's why I love this place

[EasyEJL]

That being said I do not have a gauge, nor am I willing to check each and every round; after witnessing first-hand my buddy's Sig Saur P238 blow up in his had from an overcharged round, I have realized it only takes one.

What is sort of funny is that regardless of 308 or 7.62nato, an overcharged round pretty much is going to blow a barrel.

There isn't an effective difference between 308 + 7.62nato in terms of any barrels made in the last 20 years.

[Microgunner]

What about steel cased 308 in old 7.62 chambers?

I owned an old Ishapor British L1A1 SLR that I shot LOTS of Chinese steel cased 308 through without a hint of trouble.

I didn't know any better back then.

[Timbuck2]

What is sort of funny is that regardless of 308 or 7.62nato, an overcharged round pretty much is going to blow a barrel.

There isn't an effective difference between 308 + 7.62nato in terms of any barrels made in the last 20 years.

Ok, good point.

[Timbuck2]

That's why I love this place

I will have to agree, again thanks to all, I do appreciate you taking the time to provide help and advice.

[98Z5V]

The .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO do have some big differences in operation, despite the outside case dimensions.  Externally, cool, they're twins.  Internally, the NATO cases are composed of thicker walls and base, and that reduces case capacity. 

 

You should be VERY cautious reloading these, and verify your load data.  If you're thinking about loading something that's close to a maximum charge, or if it's a compressed charge, you better verify that you're not looking at .223 Rem load data, and stuffing that in a 5.56 NATO case - you WILL have one VERY hot load on your hands.  Or, in your face...

 

Chambers are different between .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO.  In a nutshell, the 5.56 chamber has a longer leade - this will also contribute  to increased and decreased chamber pressures, between the two chambers.  Spike some hot 5.56 NATO ammo that you loaded with .223 Rem data (mistakenly) into a .223 Rem-chambered rifle, and you run the possibility of pulling that trigger ONE more time...

 

Then, we have the .223 Wylde chamber - a hybrid match chamber that's a combination of the .223 Rem numbers and the 5.56 NATO numbers.  That chamber shoots everything safely, and well.  That's the reason for it's design.

 

Edited May 7, 2015 by 98Z5V

[shibiwan]

There are several off the shelf available in .308, If you want a custom built 308AR this gentleman will build to your specifications > http://www.dtprecision.com/  he's a member of this forum.

<laughs>  <lmao>

Edited May 7, 2015 by shibiwan

[Robocop1051]

What is sort of funny is that regardless of 308 or 7.62nato, an overcharged round pretty much is going to blow a barrel.

.22lr Kaboom

[ChaseFan9]

.22lr Kaboom

Not to get off topic, but did they ever get your "uncle's" rifles fixed, Robo? Edited May 7, 2015 by ChaseFan9