hired_gun Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 I am building 2 .308 rifles and have run into the same problem with both Neither one will pass a headspace test. The bolt won't close on a "go" gage, or a "no go" gage or even a dummy 308 round. It stays open and comes nowhere near being closed. I tried swapping bolts between rifles, no difference I tried a third bolt I had on hand, same thing I tried it with the extractor in as well as out, still nothing. They will fully close without anything in the chamber, but not with the dummy round or headspace gages. one rife is a DPMS carbine style barrel with a DPMS bolt and DPMS upper The other is an Ares Armor barrel with a DPMS upper and an Ares Armor bolt. Any suggestions or help here would be appreciated.
ponce Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 Sounds like it's time for a chambering reamer. You might contact the manufacturer.
blue109 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Sounds strange to have this issue with two builds using different parts. I'm wondering if they are just really tight as new builds tend to be? Will they lock on the dummy if you let the bolt slam? Edited June 11, 2015 by blue109
hired_gun Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Posted June 11, 2015 wont close on the dummy either. I just find it had to believe it is a short chamber issue in two guns and 3 different bolts. They close and function perfect as long as there is nothing in the chamber
survivalshop Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 Are the manufacturers of the Barrel the same ? Are the BCG's/Bolt made by the Same Manufacturer ? Check the Function of the Ejector , which depending on what HS gages you are using , should be removed for testing , the extractor can stay on most, if not all HS gages. What kind of Dummy round , hand load or a factory made one ?
guruofhotrod Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 Have you got the BCG and chamber oiled up real good?
mrmackc Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 Maybe the barrels are chambered for a different caliber?
washguy Posted June 11, 2015 Report Posted June 11, 2015 Hired How are the cams acting..do they rotate when the bolt is pushed in and pulled out? Did you service the bcg ? Are you using the charging handle and letting it slam forward without anything in chamber? did you take the upper with it facing down and drop the bcg into the upper...it should almost go into battery..and a lil slap with palm will finish it off? did you grease up the lugs just a lil? is your gas key and even your charging handle freely going onto the gas tube? Is your barrel index pin seated all the way in the upper? Is the nitride wearing off on the bolt lugs in certain places? have you put a live round in a mag and let the charge handle go? :) Wash
98Z5V Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Hired How are the cams acting..do they rotate when the bolt is pushed in and pulled out? Did you service the bcg ? Are you using the charging handle and letting it slam forward without anything in chamber? did you take the upper with it facing down and drop the bcg into the upper...it should almost go into battery..and a lil slap with palm will finish it off? did you grease up the lugs just a lil? is your gas key and even your charging handle freely going onto the gas tube? Is your barrel index pin seated all the way in the upper? Is the nitride wearing off on the bolt lugs in certain places? have you put a live round in a mag and let the charge handle go? :) Wash He did that already, brother. See below. They will fully close without anything in the chamber, but not with the dummy round or headspace gages. I'm with Mack on this - different caliber might have something to do with it. More detail on the barrels is necessary here. Like, post direct links to the barrels purchased, from the dealers websites - not pics of the barrels. Manufacturers links, when I would go to add them to my cart...
survivalshop Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Are the Bolts NIB coated ? They can be tight . I do all head spacing testing with dry Bolts & Barrel Extensions I could see one being the wrong marked caliber , but two different barrels from different manufacturers ?
washguy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Are the Bolts NIB coated ? They can be tight . I do all head spacing testing with dry Bolts & Barrel Extensions I could see one being the wrong marked caliber , but two different barrels from different manufacturers ? Survival is on the money! strip down both units and head space with barrel and bolt...the only true way to find your problemo. you can have the carrier and even the charge handle give you bad readings....ive seen it :) Wash
hired_gun Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Posted June 12, 2015 all BCG are lubed. When the chamber is empty they close and function perfect. As long as nothing is inthe chamber the bolts/cam will rotate and lock fine. The problem it the moment the gages or dummy is put in then they wont rotatate and close at all. Gas key and handles appear to be going in fine. I even tried swapping the charging handles and still had the problem. With the gages in the handles will close all the way and lock but the bolts wont budge. I believe if I really tried to put the pressure on them Could maybe force them to close but that aint right For the record the gages are Forester and the dummy is a factory round I dumped the power out of and pulled the primer. I am going to try removing the ejectors to see how that works. I know it has to be me on my end so I will go thru the whole thing from step one
ponce Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Did you check headspace with the bolts stripped down? You posted just before I did. That test should be very useful. Edited June 12, 2015 by ponce
MikedaddyH Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Coating on the bolt face is adding a thousand or two. This happened with a few manufacturers with anodized parts not fitting takedown and pivot pins in holes.
washguy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Coating on the bolt face is adding a thousand or two. This happened with a few manufacturers with anodized parts not fitting takedown and pivot pins in holes. Exactly...thats why I asked him to look at the lugs for the coating wearing.... he could have a coating or whatever on both the bolt and the extension.. :) Wash
MikedaddyH Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Exactly...thats why I asked him to look at the lugs for the coating wearing.... he could have a coating or whatever on both the bolt and the extension.. :) WashNow we need SS to say the same thing since he was leading with his last question.
washguy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Hired so did you ever put the dummy round in a mag...pull back the charge handle and let it fly ? :) Wash
washguy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 hired you got this going on thats a LOT of coating it doesnt take much to fubar the function of bolt to chamber :) Wash
blue109 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 My current 308 failed to headspace when it was assembled, but worked when I pulled the barrel and used a naked bolt. Ran some ammo through it and it checks good now. Parts just needed to make some sweet love to all work together smoothly.
hired_gun Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) the Ares barrel is stainless and the bolt is nickel boron I also originally tried the headspace with just the bolt and barrel before I assembled them and had problems. I wrote that off to the ejectors as they seem so damn tight and strong. I also did "slam" the bolt on a dummy round and played hell trying to pull the bolt back. Its like it just wasnt coming back. When it finally did release the bolt, with the extractor removed, they round was so jammed in I had to force it out with a cleaning rod Edited June 12, 2015 by hired_gun
washguy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 the Ares barrel is stainless and the bolt is nickel boron did you ever put the dummy in a mag and charge the weapon? yes/no? :) Wash
hired_gun Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Posted June 12, 2015 Wash, I am going to try it from a magazine feed. Previousy I dropped the round in by hand and let the bolt go on it. Plus this is a better dummy then the last so we will see what happens
washguy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Wash, I am going to try it from a magazine feed. Previousy I dropped the round in by hand and let the bolt go on it. Plus this is a better dummy then the last so we will see what happens Hired Well crap.... do that and let the handle fly... ill tell ya right now... you will have trouble removing the round from the chamber..as its tight and new...dont whack on the charging handle either. when trying to get the round out I think what you need is my old standby plan B... you take your rifle to the local range...and I know there's gotta be a know it all A-hole range officer. Unpack your rifle load up the mag,and then go over to the range officer and tell him you dont know $hit about this rifle and would he shoot it for you....there ya go easy peasy oh...stand behind him :) Wash
Toolndie7 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 Hired Well crap.... do that and let the handle fly... ill tell ya right now... you will have trouble removing the round from the chamber..as its tight and new...dont whack on the charging handle either. when trying to get the round out I think what you need is my old standby plan B... you take your rifle to the local range...and I know there's gotta be a know it all A-hole range officer. Unpack your rifle load up the mag,and then go over to the range officer and tell him you dont know $hit about this rifle and would he shoot it for you....there ya go easy peasy oh...stand behind him :) Wash I like that idea.
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