Any Armalite people willing to make some noise with me!? I need help!

[beachmaster]

Ok, so here is the situation.

I believe that for the 308ar community to thrive, we need to have clear, concise information, and that has to start with manufactures.

In posting the Ras 12 above, which says that it fits an AR10 lower, which it doesn't (dpms pattern, sr25), someone mentioned that their Palmetto state armory AR10 lower fit it perfectly.

How could this be, Palmetto State armory doesn't make Armalite platform parts... Right!?

So I called their customer service to try to clarify exactly what pattern their stuff does fit. Of course he gives me "our 308ar platform is proprietary, and doesn't fit anyone else's stuff"

Ok, that would be fair, you don't want to be held liable for when people mix and match upper and lower brands and it doesn't work. So... Then why call it an AR10 platform?

So I say to the man "that is all fine and dandy, but you do realize that the AR10 designation is only for Armalite pattern rifles, right"

The guy says "no, our parts don't fit armalite platform rifles"

My reply was "... Right... That is the problem... If it is proprietary (which it isn't), then you can't call it an AR10, because it isn't an AR10..."

The guy says "sir, not I, nor anyone else here can tell you what manufactures our AR10 platform will work with" (very rudely)

I say "right, because you don't make an AR10, only armalite does, anything else is an Ar308"

He says "Whatever, is there anything else that I can help you with!?"

I say "no" and hang up.

 

Alright, so here is my hang up. I want to share this platform that I love with the world. I'm an Ar308 fanboy, but of course I can respect the AR10 guys ;-). The problem is that we have what can be a confusing market, and how can we expect people to understand, if the manufactures don't even tell their customer service guys what is going on, and they are missing advertising and misinforming on their own products!?

So I feel like we need to contact them in mass, have them specify exactly what they are selling, and market it properly. Or just incessantly bother them for being d bags for having rude customer service.

(I SWEAR that he was rude first! I was polite in tone right until I hung up... Now I'm pissed)

 

[shepp]

That's horseshitt salesmanship right there! Isn't the name AR10 trademarked by armilite hence the reason only an armilite can be an Ar10 (besides it being its own pattern)? If so they would be infringing upon armilite a trademark correct?

Edited August 24, 2015 by shepp
it called the shitt poop

[beachmaster]

Yeah! They call their products "Pa10", but they list it on their website in the "Ar10" section, and they don't give any information on what it will or will not fit because it is "proprietary"

 

I think that I need to contact Armalite... but an email from a few good people here would help to! Or a phone call.

 

And can you believe that I waited like 15 minutes on hold for all of that!

 

I used to think highly of the company based on my friends opinion of them. Now it will take some serious turning around before I even mention their name without being irritated. Second rate stuff right there!

 

I feel like Tom could handle this situation best though! Get em! lol

[beachmaster]

I am calling armalite to see what is really up with their trademark. Hopefully they will light psa up

 

[GreyGoose]

Kinda took the words right out of my mouth, I am new and after a couple days digging around in here a little confused, and subsequently afraid to make a move for fear of it being a mistake.

Never would have thought it would be this complex to build a well executed 308Win or 338Fed gas gun. Ha?

Edited August 24, 2015 by GreyGoose

[blue109]

Doubt it will go anywhere. The term AR10 is solidly ingrained in most people's mind with all big frame ARs. it's just the way it is. I've learned not even to bother to correct people outside of this forum because it generally just starts a argument like the one you had with that rep. People who want to know about 308s can come here and learn. People who want to talk out their ass on gun forums are more than welcome too. I usually just shoot people a PM with a link instead of trying to argue. 

[beachmaster]

My issue here is that PSA is going to screw someone over, because they will think that they are buying AR10 parts. Then said person will go around complaining about how ar308s are to proprietary and don't work and this that and the other. It is bad for the whole industry.

What is good for the industry is companies responsibly labeling their own crap!

I don't care what people say, but the manufactures themselves should get their crap together, you know!? Why wouldn't they properly label their own products?

[jtallen83]

 After the way they got rid of Pat I quit bothering................

You would think the makers would want to avoid the hassle of selling to someone that thinks it will fit their rifle, most are just clueless though.

[blue109]

My issue here is that PSA is going to screw someone over

 

Have you forgotten the painfully flawed rollout and all the people who got screwed trying to piece these PA10s together? PSA is like a gun Wal-Mart far as I'm concerned. Occasionally there is a deal I can't pass up, but I only order if I know what I want. I have no expectation that anyone answering phones there has a clue. I put them in a similar category to botach.

[beachmaster]

I didn't forget, I didn't even realize.

 

I'm living under a rock I guess.

[pokey]

  It would be nice if we could talk companies into building a generic 308 (ar15 mil spec for example) type pattern, or at least more interchangeable .  Armalite made a baby step with the A model. The proprietary designs hurt sales big time. It's the number one reason everybody I know don't buy one.

    For now, maybe a labeling system for what rifles the parts fit.  Say something A for armalite, D for dpms and such. Maybe presenting a more constructive ,problem solving direction would help. Yes, trying to figure out what fits what drives me nuts. We should try to encourage vendors to label their parts compatibility . I know some people are going to be hard to work with.

[Sisco]

 After the way they got rid of Pat I quit bothering................

You would think the makers would want to avoid the hassle of selling to someone that thinks it will fit their rifle, most are just clueless though.

10-4 on that. Also, it is in a company's self interest to have proprietary parts. Locks in customers. Like me and GenII Armalite "B" mags, for instance.

[Rsquared]

I hear ya Beach. The different patterns that are emerging into the 308 world of AR's can be frustrating as hell. Especially to complete greenhorns that go into these things just thinking that they're just another AR. Unfortunately, I don't think that there's any way that we can entice the manufacture's or retailers to be more specific on the patterns of the parts that their selling. Obviously, some manufacture's/retailers are more helpful than others. And your story of the piss poor customer service is completely unacceptable. Unbelievable that that guy would be such a prick to a customer over the phone. Guys like that, aren't helping these large frame AR's at all.

Overall, that's probably why most of us around here try to encourage guys to take their time and read, read, read up on these things before jumping in.

As far as proprietary parts and patterns, everybody knows that I'm a BIG Armalite guy. And like Blue stated, I don't really waste my time trying to correct people at first. Mainly cause they'll just think that I'm some kind of Armalite snob (just keep your mouths shut all of you jokers out there). Luckily, I waded into the water instead of just diving in. I bought my first AR-10, and kept reading and trying to learn as much as I could about the platform as a whole. And that led me to not having any issues for parts when it came to building the other 10's that I have since that first purchase (short of breaking parts, that is). With that being said, I've slowly (still am) gathering parts for a Black Rain Fallout-10 (DPMS pattern) that I'm planning on building. Bought a POF P-308 (mostly DPMS with some of their own proprietary parts). With the POF probably the last fully built rifle that I'll ever buy. So I've also dipped my toe into the DPMS side of the platform also.

It all comes down to knowledge of the platform itself. And that's why all we can do, is try to keep spreading the word and continue to try and help guys (or gals) that don't have the experience yet, building or working on the large frame AR.

[planeflyer21]

Maybe each section on 308AR should have a sticky titled "308s Are DIFFERENT!!", with a listing of what we know to be compatible, what isn't, what manufacturers recognize compatibility issues, and those with rude customer service using other companies' trademarks.

[beachmaster]

Holy Crap... Now the Armalite snobs have come aboard, time to abandon ship...

 

lol jk

 

These companies say that they are proprietary, because it is easy. Windham told me the same thing. And I get it. They aren't proprietary, but they don't want to be held liable for fitment to another manufactures parts.

 

But, if you have an Sr25 pattern rifle, or a proprietary pattern rifle, or whatever the heck else, and you sell individual parts, maybe DON'T MISLABEL THEM??!! I would think that this would be simple...

For instance, if I was selling parts for a Honda S2000, and I labeled them as being "Miata parts" people would loose their mind if they didn't read the fine print and got a piece that didn't fit.

Likewise, if your parts wont fit an Ar10, being that certain parts are not interchangeable, then it would make sense not to list your parts as Ar10 parts.

Maybe since they label their product the Pa10, it should just say Pa10?

Maybe I should just start emailing them like... every day. 

[Rsquared]

Holy Crap... Now the Armalite snobs have come aboard, time to abandon ship...

Meh! More room for the rest of us.

laughing 

[jtallen83]

I still think my AR-10 is the $hit! Ethel will always be my gal, regardless of what direction the Armalite name goes..........

[98Z5V]

The misrepresentation in this side of the industry really pisses me off.  Take Ares Armor for example - everything they list for the Big AR, they state it's an AR-10 part, but DPMS profiled.  What?!  Then, it's NOT an AR-10 part, people!

I hate that shiit.

[jtallen83]

Even the d. wilson site titles their BCG's as AR-10 then calls them out as DPMS pattern in the description. I chalk it up to marketing, everyone wants their product attached to the goodness that is an Armalite AR-10;)

[ChaseFan9]

Not just that, but I know we've all noticed how many newcomers to the platform start with the misconception that it's a .308/ large frame AR, so it's an AR-10.  Calling everything "AR-10", even if it has nothing to do with Armalite, might just be so guys that're clueless can find the partsparts they need easier.

That doesn't make it okay, but until we can get some sort of continuity with ALL manufacturers and their product labels, it's better than saying everything's proprietary (I reckon) 

[beachmaster]

It is irritating that everyone says that everything is proprietary lol

 

 

[98Z5V]

^^^  That's just like PSA, though.  I think they only say their PSA rifle is proprietary because they don't know what the fuk it is.  It's easy that way - you don't have to learn about your own company rifle, don't have to answer calls about it, just recommend your own company parts and everything will be okay.

It's just damn lazy is what it comes to...

[mrmackc]

Well If you can call a DPMS an AR10 then you should be able to call a F18 a Phantom and any two engine jet fighter either a Phantom, this is pure bullpoop, but it is acceptable and politically correct when you can't call an Islamic terrorist a Islamic Terrorist and a black 18 year old strong arm robber a criminal but a victim of a white cop murderer when he tried to take the WCM's gun away from the WCM sitting in a cop car, he was such a good kid, getting ready to start college!

It is cool to do that because our POTUS is really a PODSTUS.

 

DAMMIT!.... ARMALITE makes a.308  AR10 and DPMS and a hundred others make a LR308 and whatever it is that they make  ???? so call it what it is, If you don't know what to call something, ask someone that knows like unowho. (XCVIII-ZULU-V-VICTOR) or . Whatever he Vants to be.

Edited August 30, 2015 by mrmackc

[98Z5V]

Oh, now you're being funny, Mac...  

Edited August 30, 2015 by 98Z5V

[planeflyer21]

Well If you can call a DPMS an AR10 then you should be able to call a F18 a Phantom and any two engine jet fighter either a Phantom,

Bwwaaaahahahahahaha!!!

You just reminded me of some bilge rat on the ship who, when looking at F-14s flying with the wings swept back said "Look! There's an F-15!" and then "Oh wow! There's an F-14!" when they had the wings forward for landing. No correcting him either...he KNEW that F-15s were escorting our ship for protection.