Neutral hammer hooks

[Anderson3754]

Is anyone aware of a source of hammers with Neutral sear engagement, instead of the traditional Positive engagement ?

Regards

[392heminut]

54 minutes ago, Anderson3754 said:

Is anyone aware of a source of hammers with Neutral sear engagement, instead of the traditional Positive engagement ?

Regards

Never heard of it!

[Belt Fed]

Are you talking about the ones where it fires when you release the trigger instead of pulling it?

[RedRiverII]

shooting clays???

[Anderson3754]

1 minute ago, Belt Fed said:

Are you talking about the ones where it fires when you release the trigger instead of pulling it?

No not that. A neutral engagement hammer in the context that I'm in reference to is;  The hammer does not cam down, cocking the hammer further as your pulling the trigger. Open up the top of your AR, cock the hammer and pull the trigger slowly you will see the hammer cam rearwards, this would be positive engagement. The hammer is actually compressing the hammer spring further. This also increases your trigger pull. On a neutral engagement, the hammer does not move has your pulling the trigger. The sear just slides off the hammer hooks. At any time you can stop pulling the trigger. The sear, which in the case of AR's is integral part of the trigger, will stop moving off the hammer shelf. The trigger return spring and hammer spring ideally will return the hammer back to full engagement. Then you just start the whole process of pulling the trigger again. Negative engagement would be has you pull the trigger, the hammer starts falling forward, the power of the hammer spring will then squirt the hammer itself right off the sear and the gun goes bang. Considered by most as dangerous, it is however sometimes used in a Bullseye Wad Gun.

On the Ar platform I thinking you always want some Positive Engagement, but it does not need to be as much as that is commonly found in most, if not all combat weapons. You do have the violent action of the BCG slamming backwards and then forward each time the gun goes bang. You do not want to create a condition EVER that would allow the hammer to bounce off the sear, hence the generous amount of positive engagement built into the hammer of the AR platforms. Some aftermarket triggers do employ less positive engagement but they stop at 3.5 lbs occasionally 3lb.    Triggers are actually a fascinating topic to study. 

I'm a bolt rifle guy, prone with a sling, I just thought I would ask to see if anyone else has pursued this on the AR platforms

Regards

 

 

[Anderson3754]

32 minutes ago, RedRiverII said:

shooting clays???

Well... yes I do shoot clays (skeet) in the winter months, not very well  through. But they have a warm club house and they serve beer and pizza. I use a plain ole Remington 1100 20ga, improved/cylinder with a nice trigger, and again not doing it very well.

[Belt Fed]

This guy lived across the street from me, he died of parkinson's

 

http://www.arkansastrapshooting.org/ASTF Hall of Fame/Gerald Pennock.html

[RedRiverII]

sorry,  I was trying to understand and hone in on your initial post.

[Anderson3754]

13 minutes ago, RedRiverII said:

sorry,  I was trying to understand and hone in on your initial post.

Oh nothing to be sorry about. I new the question, was gonna raise questions for some. Who never heard of these terms.

Regards

[Anderson3754]

20 minutes ago, Belt Fed said:

This guy lived across the street from me, he died of parkinson's

 

http://www.arkansastrapshooting.org/ASTF Hall of Fame/Gerald Pennock.html

Yes.. these are remarkable people giving so much of their time and knowledge to shooters and the clubs. I was fortunate, when I started shooting NRA Hi-Power,          Colonel  Sam Burkhalter from AMTU, and Boots Obermeyer took be under their wings. The knowledge they shared and the time given to promote shooting and the manner in which they conducted themselves is simply priceless.

Regards

 

[Anderson3754]

2 hours ago, Belt Fed said:

Are you talking about the ones where it fires when you release the trigger instead of pulling it?

No...., that actually is called a "release trigger" of European origin I think. Normally a rules violation not allowed here Stateside. Shot a single shot Hammereli 22 target pistol a few rounds decades ago that had a release trigger. Extremely strange, when we always pull the trigger to make it go bang, instead of pulling it then releasing it to make it go bang.

Regards

[unforgiven]

3 hours ago, Belt Fed said:

This guy lived across the street from me, he died of parkinson's

 

http://www.arkansastrapshooting.org/ASTF Hall of Fame/Gerald Pennock.html

God bless him

[Belt Fed]

1 minute ago, unforgiven said:

God bless him

Yeah, he was a good guy, I kept all his mechanical stuff goin for him. went bird hunting with him a few times, he never missed that I can recall. He was also a crack shot with a bow. one with no sights too. It was sad the way he died, he got bad hallucinations long before he died. His brother still lives across from me on down about 50 yards from where geralds trailer was.

[unforgiven]

Heartbreaker brother

[sagebrush]

2 hours ago, Anderson3754 said:

No...., that actually is called a "release trigger" of European origin I think. Normally a rules violation not allowed here Stateside. Shot a single shot Hammereli 22 target pistol a few rounds decades ago that had a release trigger. Extremely strange, when we always pull the trigger to make it go bang, instead of pulling it then releasing it to make it go bang.

Regards

this may be in pistol and rifle shooting, release triggers are quite common in shotgun sports. legal in ata, pita, elks competition

[Anderson3754]

4 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

this may be in pistol and rifle shooting, release triggers are quite common in shotgun sports. legal in ata, pita, elks competition

Now thats interesting, did not know that was allowed for ATA, had to look up PITA,  I do not have a clue what Elks Competition is.

[Belt Fed]

1 hour ago, sagebrush said:

this may be in pistol and rifle shooting, release triggers are quite common in shotgun sports. legal in ata, pita, elks competition

They use them here for trapshooting.

[Anderson3754]

42 minutes ago, Belt Fed said:

They use them here for trapshooting.

Really;.. I'm not a hardcore clay bird shooter but do shoot maybe 1000rds a year for skeet. Never heard of the release triggers being used or even been part of a conversation involving release triggers. Well I guess thats what happens when you live in a small bubble with bolt rifles.

[DNP]

Something new for everybody...I knew nothing about them in general, so thanks for the discussion!

[98Z5V]

14 hours ago, Anderson3754 said:

Is anyone aware of a source of hammers with Neutral sear engagement, instead of the traditional Positive engagement ?

Regards

You're looking for this kind of design, right here:

 

Mil-spec trigger designs are far from this.  Stay away from RRA 2-Stage in this design. Geissele, Larue, Armalite, and others offer this design. 

That IS the RRA I pictured above.  This is the LaRue:

This is a Geissele Hi-Speed NM trigger:

Here's the Armalite NM trigger:

Edited December 28, 2019 by 98Z5V

[Anderson3754]

1 hour ago, 98Z5V said:

You're looking for this kind of design, right here:

 

Mil-spec trigger designs are far from this.  Stay away from RRA 2-Stage in this design. Geissele, Larue, Armalite, and others offer this design. 

That IS the RRA I pictured above.  This is the LaRue:

This is a Geissele Hi-Speed NM trigger:

Here's the Armalite NM trigger:

Nice thanks.... Geissele or Larue any reason to buy one over the other ?

[Anderson3754]

Quite a price difference between the two of them, after making a quick comparison. I'll have to do some homework ref these two.

[Matt.Cross]

9 minutes ago, Anderson3754 said:

Nice thanks.... Geissele or Larue any reason to buy one over the other ?

Application. The LaRue is the most cost effective choice and an unbeatable value, the Geiselle NM is the ultimate in precision trigger dynamics. The best choice will be entirely dependent on your intended use.

[98Z5V]

3 minutes ago, Anderson3754 said:

Nice thanks.... Geissele or Larue any reason to buy one over the other ?

Depends on what you're looking for, ultimately.  You need to state what you're after here, first.  I have several of both, for different reasons.

LaRue - pure high quality, 2-stage trigger, 2.5lbs first stage, 4.5lbs (combined weight) for the second stage, non adjustable, and $90 regularly. What a great trigger, at a price that's unreal.  I'd buy more at twice the price - and they used to be twice the price...

Geissele  - There is no higher quality - Adjustable from 1.5lbs to 5lbs first stage, to 6oz  to 1.5lbs second stage.  Those weights span all three configurations of the Geissele Hi-Speed trigger (National Match, DMR, and Service triggers).  Full-Rip retail from Geissele is $279.  Holiday sales come in cheaper, but not by much.

I have several of both, and I made that decision on what I wanted that specific gun to do.  Most of the time, I'll buy the LaRue, because you just CANNOT beat that trigger's performance for the dollars that you shell out.  There are other times that I just want a little bit more, though - and I'll shell out that extra $200 to have that Geissele trigger in that specific gun, for that specific purpose...

What you want in the trigger determines which one you'll buy. That's on you, and what you really want...

[98Z5V]

1 minute ago, Anderson3754 said:

Quite a price difference between the two of them, after making a quick comparison. I'll have to do some homework ref these two.

We've already done the homework on them, and I just gave you the Cliff's Notes...