Failure to feed

[Dabaer]

Hey, I’m from up North and need some help! I have an ar10 platform 308 and have a failure to feed problem. Using a sharper profile bullet like the Berger or Sierra game changer. The round jams itself between the bolt and barrel entrance. Anyone able to help with this issue?

these are hand loads at saami spec. My 168 smk feed perfectly fine.

[unforgiven]

Spec's on the rifle brother

[Dabaer]

Bcl 102 (Canadian made)

18.5 in barrel 1:10 twist (holds about 1-2 moa depending on ammo and me)

adjustable gas block, a2 stock (aftermarket)

everything else is stock.

feeds federal smk and hand load smk. 

Let me know what else you need spec wise!

 

[Dabaer]

30 minutes ago, unforgiven said:

Spec's on the rifle brother

Bcl 102 (Canadian made)

18.5 in barrel 1:10 twist (holds about 1-2 moa depending on ammo and me)

adjustable gas block, a2 stock (aftermarket)

everything else is stock.

feeds federal smk and hand load smk. 

Let me know what else you need spec wise!

[Cunuckgaucho]

Just some background history for our American brethren,

BCL(Black Creek Labs) used to be NEA(North East Arms), the name change in large part was the bad will, customer service and hit and miss quality control.While the name changed a lot of the players didn't. There is a bunch of proprietary parts along with poorly documented changes/repairs as problems appeared. These rifles run the gambit of rock solid performer to FTF/FTE every few rounds( even after coming back from manufacture 'corrected'

What NEA/BCL did was get a 308AR rifle that was non restricted class in Canada. AR-10,AR-15 and a large number of 308AR are restricted class in Canada( only be fired at sanctioned ranges) when there limited and noticeable more expensive options.

The approval of the Stag 10 a bit later had a huge effect on sales along with the price dropping.

Dabaer I'll talk to a couple people I know with experience on this specific platform and see what they come up with and get back to you.

 

[Dabaer]

8 minutes ago, Cunuckgaucho said:

Just some background history for our American brethren,

BCL(Black Creek Labs) used to be NEA(North East Arms), the name change in large part was the bad will, customer service and hit and miss quality control.While the name changed a lot of the players didn't. There is a bunch of proprietary parts along with poorly documented changes/repairs as problems appeared. These rifles run the gambit of rock solid performer to FTF/FTE every few rounds( even after coming back from manufacture 'corrected'

What NEA/BCL did was get a 308AR rifle that was non restricted class in Canada. AR-10,AR-15 and a large number of 308AR are restricted class in Canada( only be fired at sanctioned ranges) when there limited and noticeable more expensive options.

The approval of the Stag 10 a bit later had a huge effect on sales along with the price dropping.

Dabaer I'll talk to a couple people I know with experience on this specific platform and see what they come up with and get back to you.

 

Perfect, thank you for the help. I have never had other problems expect for specific rounds not feeding. Let me know if there is anything else info wise I can provide.

[shooterrex]

If you load just 1 round of the problem ammo does it lock back on an empty magazine? If it doesn't open the gas block up a bit. Might be undergassed with that load.

[Dabaer]

1 hour ago, shooterrex said:

If you load just 1 round of the problem ammo does it lock back on an empty magazine? If it doesn't open the gas block up a bit. Might be undergassed with that load.

Single loading is fine. It does lock back and loads smk projectiles fine. The failure occurs when I load any projectile with a more aggressive taper. Bolt release, charging handle, or mixing the rounds in a mag also leads to the same issue

[98Z5V]

9 hours ago, Dabaer said:

Bcl 102 (Canadian made)

18.5 in barrel 1:10 twist (holds about 1-2 moa depending on ammo and me)

adjustable gas block, a2 stock (aftermarket)

everything else is stock.

feeds federal smk and hand load smk. 

Let me know what else you need spec wise!

 

 

9 hours ago, Dabaer said:

Bcl 102 (Canadian made)

18.5 in barrel 1:10 twist (holds about 1-2 moa depending on ammo and me)

adjustable gas block, a2 stock (aftermarket)

everything else is stock.

feeds federal smk and hand load smk. 

Let me know what else you need spec wise!

For me, personally, I don't give a shiit what you call your AR rifle parts, from the wrong side of the border.  What I care about is WHAT YOUR RIFLE IS DOING. I don't care what your specs are, because you'll give it some Canadian bullshiit name, and it won't have a single thing to do with anything here in 'Merica, and it won't have anything to do with 'Merican specs" - you'll name it something funny, or you'll just straight call it whatever it is Canadian - and that won't mean shiit to US gun-builders.

HOW IS YOUR GUN FUCKING UP?... 

What is your Canadian Gun doing, that it's not supposed to?  What is your Canadian Gun doing wrong, that it shouldn't?

we either have a language barrier or a Canadian Barrier, and the only one that can help us here is @Cunuckgaucho

[98Z5V]

@Dabaer just so you know you listed a whole bunch of parts types - but you didn't list a SINGLE manufacturer.  Not one.  You need to list the people that made your parts, because we - US people - have alot of familiarity with different companies, that make parts.  But...  we can't guess what ones that those are, on your build. 

Make sense?

[98Z5V]

Out of respect for Eric, I swear I'm not gonna go there.  I love that brother too much.

[shooterrex]

Looking at the photo a little closer. The feed ramps look like they are 90deg out of where they belong. They are at 9oclock not 6 o'clock unless I am seeing the photo incorrectly.

[DNP]

Good eye on that one. So does that mean the barrel is not indexed, or is the barrel extension fubar’d? 

[Matt.Cross]

37 minutes ago, shooterrex said:

Looking at the photo a little closer. The feed ramps look like they are 90deg out of where they belong. They are at 9oclock not 6 o'clock unless I am seeing the photo incorrectly.

You're right, they're -90° from where they're supposed be. (3 o' clock) 

[Cunuckgaucho]

9 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

@Dabaer just so you know you listed a whole bunch of parts types - but you didn't list a SINGLE manufacturer.  Not one.  You need to list the people that made your parts, because we - US people - have alot of familiarity with different companies, that make parts.  But...  we can't guess what ones that those are, on your build. 

Make sense?

BCL( Black creek Labs) used to be NEA(North Eastern Arms, the name change was largely due to the poor quality control both in assembly and the manufacturer of parts.

While changing the name the logo and players involved are still the same. They make a number of parts in house and earlier versions had proprietary parts limiting options for upgrades. 

Here is the blurb from the manufacture

They say failure is a good thing.  That it drives inspiration and innovation.  That to finally hit the “Mark” you must first fail, then listen, then learn, and then respond with everything you’ve got.  We agree.  Meet the BCL 102 MK7. ( they are now pushing version 7 in only a couple years of being on the market, see date on magazine article below which was version 1)

The BCL 102 MK7 is a standard BCL102 that has been fitted with an upper receiver that was designed with Black Creek’s mission in mind.  Lighter. More accurate.  More reliable.  The MK7 boasts a receiver set and handguard machined to tighter tolerances and finished with a (type III class 2) hard anodize and an option for a standard or custom elite cerakote coating over the hard anodize.  The MK7 barrel nut is made of hardened steel and is factory torqued to eliminate barrel shift.  A DPMS thread pattern on the upper receiver and a milspec buffer tube allows for easy modification.  

The MK7 Bolt has been brought back to milspec and the gas port is CNC drilled to a size that provides reliability for almost all commercial .308 ammunition.  The MK7 bolt and extractor are made on an in-house 

Here is a review by Canadian gun magazine

https://calibremag.ca/bcl102-review/

9 hours ago, shooterrex said:

Looking at the photo a little closer. The feed ramps look like they are 90deg out of where they belong. They are at 9oclock not 6 o'clock unless I am seeing the photo incorrectly.

https://blackcreeklabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Barrel-Alignment-Inspection.pdf

The above link has pics on pg 2 showing correct and incorrect pictures along with how to inspect for barrel alignment.

 

[Dabaer]

12 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

 

For me, personally, I don't give a shiit what you call your AR rifle parts, from the wrong side of the border.  What I care about is WHAT YOUR RIFLE IS DOING. I don't care what your specs are, because you'll give it some Canadian bullshiit name, and it won't have a single thing to do with anything here in 'Merica, and it won't have anything to do with 'Merican specs" - you'll name it something funny, or you'll just straight call it whatever it is Canadian - and that won't mean shiit to US gun-builders.

HOW IS YOUR GUN FUCKING UP?... 

What is your Canadian Gun doing, that it's not supposed to?  What is your Canadian Gun doing wrong, that it shouldn't?

we either have a language barrier or a Canadian Barrier, and the only one that can help us here is @Cunuckgaucho

What I think the problem is the barrel extension, I spent a few hours looking at it yesterday with various projectiles (different shapes obviously) and what I have noticed is the rounds that are jamming don’t get picked up on the feed lips and instead hit the barrel opening. As seen in the picture. For the rounds that do load they are gouged pretty good, if it helps I can post the pictures of each round too.

[Dabaer]

12 hours ago, shooterrex said:

Looking at the photo a little closer. The feed ramps look like they are 90deg out of where they belong. They are at 9oclock not 6 o'clock unless I am seeing the photo incorrectly.

I think the picture may have been misleading. It looks fine to me but I might be wrong

[Dabaer]

12 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

@Dabaer just so you know you listed a whole bunch of parts types - but you didn't list a SINGLE manufacturer.  Not one.  You need to list the people that made your parts, because we - US people - have alot of familiarity with different companies, that make parts.  But...  we can't guess what ones that those are, on your build. 

Make sense?

For sure, 

the gun is being feed by magpul or imi mags, everything except for the stock(a2 dpms kit), gas block (superlative arms .875) and the magpul grip and trigger guard are made by bcl (or at least attached to there rifles) 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Dabaer

[shooterrex]

Much better pictures. Yep I looked at it wrong. Feed ramps are where they belong.

[edgecrusher]

Can you take a pic of the gas tube in the can cut out from the bottom looking in? Should be in the middle of the cut out. And for shits and giggles, complete measurements of your recoil system please

[Dabaer]

43 minutes ago, edgecrusher said:

Can you take a pic of the gas tube in the can cut out from the bottom looking in? Should be in the middle of the cut out. And for shits and giggles, complete measurements of your recoil system please

The issue occurs when I attempt to chamber a new round by bolt release and charging handle cycle. I can still do all that but it won’t be the problem

[98Z5V]

5 hours ago, Dabaer said:

 

You're jamming rounds into the upper body, below the barrel extension, and it's on the rounds that feed from the right side of the magazine...

Can you post up a picture of what your ejector looks like?  Angled shot of the bolt face, and the ejector.  Ejectors with squared off faces have trouble feeding the rounds that come from the right side of the magazine.  I can see on your upper where the bullet noses are being jammed into the upper, and it's on the right side.  You've had a couple on the left side, but that right side looks like it's eating the ammo.

Good pics, by the way.  Get that requested pic in here of the end of the gas tube. Need to see where it ends, in the upper receiver.  Straight down pic into the upper receiver, with the BCG removed.

Edited April 5, 2020 by 98Z5V

[Dabaer]

1 hour ago, 98Z5V said:

You're jamming rounds into the upper body, below the barrel extension, and it's on the rounds that feed from the right side of the magazine...

Can you post up a picture of what your ejector looks like?  Angled shot of the bolt face, and the ejector.  Ejectors with squared off faces have trouble feeding the rounds that come from the right side of the magazine.  I can see on your upper where the bullet noses are being jammed into the upper, and it's on the right side.  You've had a couple on the left side, but that right side looks like it's eating the ammo.

Good pics, by the way.  Get that requested pic in here of the end of the gas tube. Need to see where it ends, in the upper receiver.  Straight down pic into the upper receiver, with the BCG removed.

Here you go, I know that these guns had recalls for there extractors not ejecting and were replaced with the newer style (the one you see).

[98Z5V]

Gas tube length is good.  Ejector is a little square, but not what I've seen that causes problems feeding from the right side of the mag - but it might be.  If this was my own gun, and I was having your problems, the first thing I'd do is round off that ejector - not take any length - but I'd blow that thing down until it's round, and a good, smooth radius from the top down.  If it was my gun.  I'd do that, then shoot it again.  The marks in your upper are telling you that you have an issue feeding from the right side of the mag.

Do a test for me.  Live fire.  Load up the mag so the top round is on the left.  Chamber it and Shoot it. tell me what happens. Then shoot it again (top round will be from the right, next one up) - tell me about that one, too.

Edited April 6, 2020 by 98Z5V

[Dabaer]

14 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Gas tube length is good.  Ejector is a little square, but not what I've seen that causes problems feeding from the right side of the mag - but it might be.  If this was my own gun, and I was having your problems, the first thing I'd do is round off that ejector - not take any length - but I'd blow that thing down until it's round, and a good, smooth radius from the top down.  If it was my gun.  I'd do that, then shoot it again.  The marks in your upper are telling you that you have an issue feeding from the right side of the mag.

Do a test for me.  Live fire.  Load up the mag so the top round is on the left.  Chamber it and Shoot it. tell me what happens. Then shoot it again (top round will be from the right, next one up) - tell me about that one, too.

I should be able to do some live fire this week hopefully. I’ll let you guys know how it goes.