AR10 6.5 Creedmoor tuning issues?

[Perch]

  Built my first AR10 almost 1yr ago when I was back living in Commiefornia.   Finally got settled near Houston a few months back and went out to tune the AGB and get this rifle cycling.  As I got the last round to lock the BCG back,  i noticed spent casings ejected @ 1-2 o'clock with consistent bent mouth on the cartridge.  Seemed to be overgassed but I had just got the BCG to lock back on last round.  Rifle cycled fine, no other issue other than ejection pattern and consistently bending the mouth of the spent casing.  Its my first time tuning a gas system on any firearm so I'm a complete noob, please keep that in mind when responding lol.😵  

  So the build  consists of a Jauggernaut tactical 80% lower/upper, 22" JP Supermatch barrel w/ headspaced HP bolt, JP .936 AGB, JP VMOS BCG, JP SCS w/ additional lighter/heavier springs, and a surefire socom muzzlebrake. 

  So when I got home later that day and was cleaning it I noticed the AGB was slightly off-centered.  🙄  Anyway fixed that and its aligned perfectly now but wanted to get some advice on how I should go about tuning if the same problem persists.

As I'm sure you all know the VMOS BCG and the JP SCS can both be adjusted to add more/less weight to the BCG or more/less weight to the SCS, as well as change the springs to add more resistance or less.  

  So my question is if I go about tuning the gas system to lock back on last round and everything is cycling, but I'm getting brass ejected @ 1-2 o'clock again and slightly bending the mouth of the cartridges, what should I turn to next?   Should I start out with the spring rate/weights on SCS first or should I adjust weight on the BCG?  Should I add more weight or less weight?  How about different springs on the SCS? More or less tension? 

  I'm pretty lost in this situation, hoping now that the gas block is aligned correctly I won't have this issue after returning the gas system.  Hoping for the best but planning on the worst.

  So what do you guys/girls think? I'm sure someone is going to say that I have too much competition type modifications and need to switch to a reliable, proven system but doesn't the JP LRP-07 have the same equipment?  

Thanks in advance for any advice given from experience!  Have done a few Google searches over the past few weeks attempting to find someone with a similar issue but came up empty handed for the most part.  

Here's a few pics of the build:

Steve

 

  

[98Z5V]

Are you reloading or not?  That case mouth dent is very minor, and doesn't affect a reloader, not in the least.

[98Z5V]

1 hour ago, Perch said:

  Built my first AR10 almost 1yr ago when I was back living in Commiefornia.   Finally got settled near Houston a few months back

Steve

 

 

One thing to say here, Steve - please don't leave Cali, and drag your Cali politics to Houston.  I hope you don't.  Houston is a trainwreck with liberal politics now, with all the Cali transplants - that left what they were sick of, only to transform it into what they left in the first place.  Those idiots should have just stayed in place, and imploded.

I hope that isn't you, and I hope you left for great reasons.  Just don't drag liberal politics with you, and then try to transform the place-you-left into the place-you-thought-was-paradise. That only fuks up the place you arrived at.

In my 12 years in Washington State (1992~2004), I watched it turn from Paradise, into a Political-Shiithole that's completely fucked up.  Liberal Politics did that to that state.  Most of the people that fucked up Washington - were fleeing California...   In my 5 years overall in Cali - same thing.  Mid-to-Late '80s, Cali was Paradise.  When I left in '91, it was turning.  Hard.

So many of you flee your homestate, because of - whatever.  Don't drag what you didn't like, to the new place.  Houston is already a wasteland, as far as that goes.

Sorry for the rant.  I'm tired of seeing this country destroyed, by liberal mindsets that spread.

If that's not you - then disregard.

Edited May 27, 2020 by 98Z5V

[shooterrex]

Hi, Please don't take this wrong but you bought race gun parts. I used to work for Deb Cheek she was one of JP's 3 gun shooting team shooters. They make great guns to play games with. Set up for 1 load. Almost everyone that has posted questions about their JP parts not working are using the recoil system. If you can increase your spring rate and open the gas a bit more you might get the desired results. The armalite springs and buffers systems just plain work. Hope this helps.

[Radioactive]

I echo the above. What is your purpose for the gun? 3 gun? Long range target? General fun? You may want to back track a few steps and simplify the recoil system if you are not looking for race type performance. Nice looking build and welcome from Alabama.

[edgecrusher]

6 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Are you reloading or not?  That case mouth dent is very minor, and doesn't affect a reloader, not in the least.

This. If you’re buying off the shelf ammo and ammo of different weights and sizes you are going to have issues between the different types. If you reload tune it for your load and it’ll be fine. The problem with those parts is they cannot be reliable across a range of different ammo. It’s not what they were made for

[Lane]

26 minutes ago, edgecrusher said:

6 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Are you reloading or not?  That case mouth dent is very minor, and doesn't affect a reloader, not in the least.

This.

I was guessing the same by looking at the primers alone. Only time will tell in this case; and I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. Just my $0.01.

Welcome from New York state by the way. Good looking build from what I can see. Tuning is the easy part once the lower is tight in my opinion (and that one looks tight). That interior work in a lower is a soft spot for me though...

[RedRiverII]

Welcome from Fla.  You may have come to the right place.  We need more information to help you better.  The posts with pics help tremendously.  A good comparison would be like reading text books vs comic books as a child.  Comic books won hands down for me.

What is that rifle for?  An answer like it's for general use is allowed.  Consistent 1 or 2 o'clock discharge is ok.  It can be tuned to 3 or 4 if you like but isn't necessary IMHO.  Shooting is the object of ownership so go shoot and have a ball.  Personally I'd like to hear why the cases are getting dinged.  I can not answer that question properly.  One of our brothers can but he's waiting for you to answer a few questions already posted.  

Hope to hear back from you soon.

[Perch]

8 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Are you reloading or not?  That case mouth dent is very minor, and doesn't affect a reloader, not in the least.

Nope, not reloading.  Just wanted to see what people with more knowledge recommended I do to improve ejection pattern so I'm not beating up the brass as much (if thats considered beating it up, honestly not 100% sure lol)

  Regarding voting, I voted for Trump so no worries there. 👍  I've pretty much decided that this 2 party system is just an illusion of choice.  Republicans had full control yet no pro-2A bills were passed.  I don't feel represented when our government gives away billions to other countries in "aid," won't reduce the hundreds of military bases all over the world to save money and instead "borrow," or steal it right out of ALL Americans pockets by printing money that doesn't exist and causing inflation which lowers the quality of living for every American, even the ones not born yet.  

  If more Americans actually knew what our government has done, all the lies to the American people to get us into wars which cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, i believe there would be massive change.  Unfortunately majority of Americans watch MSM which is just state run TV via operation mockingbird.  People should question why CNN mainly hires former Intel officers.  

  JFK warned us exactly what was going on right before they killed him.  Americans think their plans have changed, or something.  Pretty scary to listen to JFKs last speech and realize how relevant it is today. 

This gov. Is using inflation, which they caused by taking us off the gold standard (suppose to be temporary yet its been decades!) And slowly squeezing every man, woman, and child each generation to lower the quality of living and slowly turning the American people into slaves.  

  Thought this was a gun forum 😄  I understand your concern though and I hope my views reassure that I'm not the enemy, but another brother just as fed up with the way this country is going.  There's a huge problem when  politicians legalize laundering money through a 3rd party to bribe politicians.  Instead of calling it like it is, they make up a new word and call it "lobbying" so they can't be charged with a crime.  

[RedRiverII]

It is a gun forum,  a small home town kinda place.  I'm no authority on 308ar.  What are you using the rifle for?  Target,  GP,  hunting?

[Perch]

9 hours ago, shooterrex said:

Hi, Please don't take this wrong but you bought race gun parts. I used to work for Deb Cheek she was one of JP's 3 gun shooting team shooters. They make great guns to play games with. Set up for 1 load. Almost everyone that has posted questions about their JP parts not working are using the recoil system. If you can increase your spring rate and open the gas a bit more you might get the desired results. The armalite springs and buffers systems just plain work. Hope this helps.

I'm very open to constructive criticism, its how I learn faster without doing everything the hard way and figuring it out myself and I appreciate your help!  I was trying to mimmick the JP-LRP07, read really good reviews about it so I was hoping to set it up the same way just using different upper/lower and buffer tube.  

  The rifle was cycling great, locked back on last round everything.  I was concerned with where it was ejecting brass and the dent on the mouth of the casing.  Other people that I've asked have said that if the rifle cycles fine you shouldn't be too worried about where its throwing brass, i just wanted to confirm this as well as see if anybody had any suggestions regarding trying a lighter or heavier spring on the SCS and possibly adjusting the weights on either the SCS or the BCG.  

  My initial thought process was to put a lighter spring in there and retune the AGB.  I was thinking if the buffer was easier to move i could turn the gas down a bit and that would fix the ejection pattern.

Now that shooterrex mentioned putting a heavier spring in it and letting a bit more gas flow im thinking thats probably that right path to go down next.  Rethinking it with that in mind a heavier spring would slow the BCG down so its not ejecting casings @ 1-2 o'clock, and I would just have to let a bit more gas flow to get the BCG to lock back on last round.

Figuring i will give both heavier and lighter springs a try first and adjusting gas for each and if that doesn't fix the ejection pattern ill just set it back to how I had it and eventually buy the armalite recoil spring/buffer system. 

  It was cycling 3 different types of ammo fine though just was concerned about putting unnecessary wear on the internal parts from it being overgassed.  It shoots really smooth though so really hoping I can tweak it a bit and get the ejection pattern in that 3oclock area.

 

[Perch]

7 hours ago, Radioactive said:

I echo the above. What is your purpose for the gun? 3 gun? Long range target? General fun? You may want to back track a few steps and simplify the recoil system if you are not looking for race type performance. Nice looking build and welcome from Alabama.

I built it for long range target and general fun for the most part but want it to be reliable incase I ever did have to use it for anything else.  Sucks though as there's no BLM land at all in Texas which I did not know before moving, so furthest I've been able to shoot is 100yds.  😔  also have a few reactive steel targets that are sitting in the garage collecting dust since no range around here will allow me to bring steel to shoot and don't know anyone with private land in the area.  

  Was gonna try one of the suggestions mentioned and throw in a stiffer recoil spring, adjust gas and see if that helps with ejection pattern.  If all that fails ill end up grabbing the armalite buffer system since that is proven to function well.

[Perch]

8 hours ago, Radioactive said:

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Perch
Oops

[Perch]

6 hours ago, RedRiverII said:

Welcome from Fla.  You may have come to the right place.  We need more information to help you better.  The posts with pics help tremendously.  A good comparison would be like reading text books vs comic books as a child.  Comic books won hands down for me.

What is that rifle for?  An answer like it's for general use is allowed.  Consistent 1 or 2 o'clock discharge is ok.  It can be tuned to 3 or 4 if you like but isn't necessary IMHO.  Shooting is the object of ownership so go shoot and have a ball.  Personally I'd like to hear why the cases are getting dinged.  I can not answer that question properly.  One of our brothers can but he's waiting for you to answer a few questions already posted.  

Hope to hear back from you soon.

so that's what some other people I spoke with told me also.  They said if its cycling reliably and shooting nice with good recoil don't worry about ejection so much.  Was told by people more wise than me that ejection pattern can help diagnose an issue but it isn't the final word on weather a gun is under/overgassed.

  I too would like to figure out why the mouth of the casing is consistently dented and figure out what can be done to remedy it.  My guess is that the spring for the SCS is too soft and its causing the casing to hit the upper/barrel extension as its violently being ejected?

  Then again before I posted here I was thinking the SCS spring was too heavy and I needed to put a lighter spring in and turn the gas down.  🙃 Again I'm a total noob to tuning a gas gun so just want to make sure everything is GTG or if I need to make some changes.  

  Thank you, it puts my mind at ease to hear another person say to not worry too much about where the spent casings go as long as everything else is functioning fine.  Appreciate your input!

[98Z5V]

Hit my last post in your intro thread - make the buffer heavier, that changes ejection pattern, and cuts down BCG speed  - which is what's denting the case mouths. 

[Perch]

1 hour ago, 98Z5V said:

Hit my last post in your intro thread - make the buffer heavier, that changes ejection pattern, and cuts down BCG speed  - which is what's denting the case mouths. 

I will give that a try hopefully this weekend.  My GF just received her LTC in the mail a few days ago so thats a perfect excuse to go to the range! 😉 Going to tell her she needs to go at least once a month to stay familiar with her carry gun. 😬

[RedRiverII]

Did you make it to the range,  swap out the buffer,  decided it's no longer important?   I did find out the dents were from a fast moving bcg so the thread worked for me.  Best of Luck to you.

[DNP]

What weights are on your SCS currently?  All steel, or mix of steel and tungsten?

[Chuck Plissken]

On 5/26/2020 at 10:44 PM, 98Z5V said:

One thing to say here, Steve - please don't leave Cali, and drag your Cali politics to Houston.  I hope you don't.  Houston is a trainwreck with liberal politics now, with all the Cali transplants - that left what they were sick of, only to transform it into what they left in the first place.  Those idiots should have just stayed in place, and imploded.

I hope that isn't you, and I hope you left for great reasons.  Just don't drag liberal politics with you, and then try to transform the place-you-left into the place-you-thought-was-paradise. That only fuks up the place you arrived at.

In my 12 years in Washington State (1992~2004), I watched it turn from Paradise, into a Political-Shiithole that's completely fucked up.  Liberal Politics did that to that state.  Most of the people that fucked up Washington - were fleeing California...   In my 5 years overall in Cali - same thing.  Mid-to-Late '80s, Cali was Paradise.  When I left in '91, it was turning.  Hard.

So many of you flee your homestate, because of - whatever.  Don't drag what you didn't like, to the new place.  Houston is already a wasteland, as far as that goes.

Sorry for the rant.  I'm tired of seeing this country destroyed, by liberal mindsets that spread.

If that's not you - then disregard.

The gorilla said it well. off topic related but still worth saying. I too went from cali to AZ over 10 years ago. left it behind 99%. 

On topic at hand that's a hot looking rig you built!

[Perch]

On 6/4/2020 at 6:43 AM, RedRiverII said:

Did you make it to the range,  swap out the buffer,  decided it's no longer important?   I did find out the dents were from a fast moving bcg so the thread worked for me.  Best of Luck to you.

Sorry for the delay in response after all the help you guys gave, I had to move suddenly and had to pack everything back up and move again.  I wasn't able to make it to the range yet to test that rifle, have only made it out a few times the last ~6 months just to stay semi-proficient with my handgun.  

  I'm settled again now finally and just bought a year membership to American Shooting Centers in houston so I will get out there hopefully today after work lol, but if not in the next few weeks to see if the suggestions can remedy the bent brass.  

  If not, im just going to set it back and forget about it.  As long as its cycling consistently and accurate that's what really matters.  I just wanted to confirm there weren't any issues I should know about and also wanted to at least try and adjust it so it wouldn't bend up the case mouth.  

  I will update here though as soon as I am able to make it out there and try adjusting a few things.

  Wish I would have made it out before this whole covid BS happened, ammo prices are through the roof now!  Luckily bought a few hundred rounds of 143gr. Hornady extreme hunter? ammo as well as 500rds of 77gr 5.56 from IMI literally 1 week before the virus crap

[Perch]

Went out on Saturday after work and was able to retune gas after straightening gas block.  Also put the lightest spring on the SCS.  
  Gas screw is a few clicks less open but still getting dented mouth cases and weak ejection.  I think I will see about taking off the weights on the VMOS BCG and if it’s okay to run it without the weights On it since I’m not running it suppressed at the moment.  I also read someplace that the LRP-07 runs their LMOS BCG so thinking that may cure the weak ejection/dented case mouths. 
  On the plus side though the rifle shot very good IMO while tuning the gas system!  Target was at 100yds, ~5-7mph wind, and bench shooting with mag balanced on a bag because I had the front rail off to tune gas.

  Shot Hornady 140gr ELD-M with 3 rounds of Hornady 143gr extreme hunter ELD-M.  
  Also this was done with my Primary arms 1-8 just taken off my AR15 and slapped onto the AR10 with no adjustment lol.  

[Perch]

Finally was able to buy a scope for this gun!  Ended up getting the Primary Arms GLX 6-24 w/ Athena reticle.  Just took it out again today to sight in the optic and definitely happy with my purchase! 

  Was nice to get a tiny taste of how accurate this barrel is.  I took it out a few times with my 1-8x off my AR15 and it seemed to shoot okay, although I was also tuning the gas system so that doesn't help much with accuracy 😉.  The 8x just didn't have enough magnification to be extremely precise where I'm aiming.  

  I got the optic close using Winchester 129gr. SuperX PowerPoint, only 6.5 ammo my range had.  Then I switched over to Hornady 143gr. Precision Hunter and ended up making 2 adjustments while shooting the 143gr. Hornady.  Only had 30min. Of shooting before they closed so planning on taking it out 1 more time to fine tune it and then going to shoot at some distance and see how that goes.  Rifle was very accurate though, definitely happy with it!  

  Regarding cycling, still barely ejecting bent case mouths but they're ejecting and haven't had any issues.  I'm thinking its barely ejecting because I have the JP VMOS BCG and their SCS with 2 tungsten weights, so supposedly equivalent to H2 buffer.  The VMOS is for suppressed guns, so im thinking its just slowing the BCG down too much since im shooting it without a suppressor.  

  I'd like to try it with no weights at all on the BCG and see if that fixes the weak ejection but need to call JP rifles and make sure their VMOS can be run with all weights removed.  

  I believe their LRP07 uses the same parts i have in my rifle other than the BCG which is their LMOS  or lightened BCG.  

[mrmackc]

On 5/27/2020 at 8:42 AM, Perch said:

Nope, not reloading.  Just wanted to see what people with more knowledge recommended I do to improve ejection pattern so I'm not beating up the brass as much (if thats considered beating it up, honestly not 100% sure lol)

  Regarding voting, I voted for Trump so no worries there. 👍  I've pretty much decided that this 2 party system is just an illusion of choice.  Republicans had full control yet no pro-2A bills were passed.  I don't feel represented when our government gives away billions to other countries in "aid," won't reduce the hundreds of military bases all over the world to save money and instead "borrow," or steal it right out of ALL Americans pockets by printing money that doesn't exist and causing inflation which lowers the quality of living for every American, even the ones not born yet.  

  If more Americans actually knew what our government has done, all the lies to the American people to get us into wars which cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, i believe there would be massive change.  Unfortunately majority of Americans watch MSM which is just state run TV via operation mockingbird.  People should question why CNN mainly hires former Intel officers.  

  JFK warned us exactly what was going on right before they killed him.  Americans think their plans have changed, or something.  Pretty scary to listen to JFKs last speech and realize how relevant it is today. 

This gov. Is using inflation, which they caused by taking us off the gold standard (suppose to be temporary yet its been decades!) And slowly squeezing every man, woman, and child each generation to lower the quality of living and slowly turning the American people into slaves.  

  Thought this was a gun forum 😄  I understand your concern though and I hope my views reassure that I'm not the enemy, but another brother just as fed up with the way this country is going.  There's a huge problem when  politicians legalize laundering money through a 3rd party to bribe politicians.  Instead of calling it like it is, they make up a new word and call it "lobbying" so they can't be charged with a crime.  

You are asking why a "GUN Forum guru is involved in Left Vs Right politics as a main subject for serious Pro Tac Gun people?

Well,   I'll let someone else here explain it to you, I'm not too good at explaining simple stuff, I'm more of a "Quantum Physics" person

Welcome to the real world,  and welcome to the forum.  Please don't fornicate up my Texas.

[DNP]

I’m staying in Cali as long as I can. I’d love to escape somewhere a little more free, but somebody has to stay and fight this crap. This state could be as great or better than a lot of places, but it’s going to take some serious change in the thinking around here to make it. Some of us still believe in the Easter Bunny...it could happen. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by DNP

[98Z5V]

6 hours ago, DNP said:

I’m staying in Cali as long as I can. I’d love to escape somewhere a little more free, but somebody has to stay and fight this crap. This state could be as great or better than a lot of places, but it’s going to take some serious change in the thinking around here to make it. Some of us still believe in the Easter Bunny...it could happen. 

I support your fight, brother, more than you know.  '86~'91, I was there, and I loved it.  It was paradise. Started to go to shiit around '89, but just with that gang-banger BS, that started moving north, out of LA, but it was still cherished memories.  The potential, is truly PARADISE, because that what that place is. 

But hey, I loved Washington from '92~'04, too - and the Libs fucked that one up there, too, after that.  Wet Side RULES!!!   Dry Side, meh, whatever.  I love the Wet Side.  I'm glad I sold my house there in Jun '07 - before the crash.