BLKSHEEP Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Here's an example of a con, all it took was (1) citizen to call the police and they found a way to charge them with disorderly conduct. And of all the places it was in TEXAS. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/30/men-behind-open-carry-demonstration-in-texas-charged-with-crimes-even-though-what-they-did-wasnt-illegal-heres-how-police-are-justifying-it/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN0GcahEvIc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 I thought San Antonio was a colony of New Kaliyorkcagojersy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imschur Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Here in CT one it was ruled in court that open carry was legal a memo was passed to law enforcement that if the police were called for someone carrying openly that they should be charged with disturbing the peace. I have never seen anyone carrying openly other than at a pro gun gathering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 If your police were to carry that out then they need to be fired for not serving the people they are sworn to protect..... No LE here would even think of such a thing and none would carry it out here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrtmasp Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Unfortunately, disorderly conduct has been known to be a blanket charge for certain incidents but that was ridiculous. It's a complete pain in the ass that LEOs have to check on all those calls and it ties up valuable resources but we should be fortunate enough to have more citizens like that. DC for something even close to that is mind boggling. I'd like to see the elements on that charge in TX...I don't see how they'd be met in a situation like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra644 Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) Just because something is legal, does not mean its advisable. What I mean by this is I don't think its a good idea or tactically sound. I carry a gun because of my job, and I carry off duty because I put bad people in bad places and a few would love to get payback for that. Even if I were not a LEO, I would still obtain a CCW permit and carry. I have been through many a special training for weapons retention and carry a retention holster to avoid a gun grab when I am on duty. When I am off duty I carry concealed but always have my head on a swivel and avoid trouble. That being said, think about this, lets say God forbid you are in your local coffee shop or mall or whatever. You are carrying a weapon on the outside and some crazy gunman ( domestic terrorist ) comes in scopes the place out before engaging or just comes in shooting. You are going to be their first target because he can see that you posses a threat to his / her mission. Then your wife or whom ever picks up your gun and now they are also a prime target. Granted someone may or may not be able to get your pistol if you go down and eventually smoke check this person. The whole point is to survive and the bad guy in this situation not so much. Also remember that the likely hood of your being able to be around cover or concealment could be slim to none and good luck trying to plow through the masses to get to that point or getting a clear shot off and engaging. Also think about fight, flight or posture. If you are not perceived as a threat by the shooter and all of a sudden you present a threat it may give you an edge by changing the thought process of the that person requiring them to react by either fight, flight or posture giving you maybe enough time to end the threat. How many of you have been to Wal-Mart? Trust me half the local scum bag population steals there. How many of you train to not use your gun hand when you are reaching for a item on the shelf or how many guys do you see use the cheapest holster out there just to hold the pistol and have really no formal training of any type? If criminals train to take guns away from law enforcement think about that the next time you carry open to make your self a target and your wearing a Fobus or Blackhawk or a single snap holster, kydex does break FYI. Now not only did you make yourself a target or put yourself and possibly your family in a use of force situation now I have a criminal that has a gun that I have to deal with. boy, wouldn't that would be a bad day, getting robbed at gunpoint with your own gun? I ask why, to feel special, or to show that you support the second amendment? I would rather see that person support the second amendment by being a member of the NRA and vote for the politicians who still have some common sense. I as most of you know am very much a constitutionalist, but use anonymity as your friend and as a tactical advantage, t.v. shows are exactly that. trust me I wish I had the support and toys like Las Vegas CSI. Here in my area we have had a few people open carry and its received a visit from yours truly. Our stores here are considered private property and some stores have a no CCW sign posted. LEO's are exempt but permit holders are supposed to abide by the store wishes. Now obviously if you are carrying concealed and not printing who knows right, seriously. Criminals see a no CCW permit sign they are gonna know hey, law abiding citizens cant carry here so as an advocate of gun control I have a safe working environment here I am not telling you to disobey , but I wouldn't shop there. If the store owner requests that the person leave they have to. No laws have been broken yet but as soon as a person refuses to leave it becomes a criminal trespass. Also if the person does not have a CCW permit and they get into the car with the gun a drive away then they in my state just improperly transported a firearm in a motor vehicle. You have brought attention to yourself and your family and made an issue where one could have been avoided. Also think about all the soccer moms and people who believe what they hear and see on radio and t.v. like the blonde State Farm commercial that says it was on the internet and they cant post things on the net that are not true. The man replies where did you hear that and they say together the internet, then walks up the goofy looking male French Model. Those kind of people are out there trust me they are listed as victim / reportee's on my paperwork and there are more of them that you can shake a stick at and they vote. See the trend here, what is legal is not always advisable. Edited September 2, 2013 by Zebra644 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) As said by a L.E.O. by me sometimes you are better off to become a good witness.The who,what ,where and when are more helpful especially with more than one perpitrator.I for one carry conceled and am low profile.The fear and danger is employing the pistol with an uncertain backstop.Carrying a handgun brings upon a grave responsibility that I do not take lightly.But to save my life or that of my family you do what you have to do. Edited September 2, 2013 by unforgiven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Whenever I'm walking up to a store and see skeevy bums out front bugging people I pull my shirt up over the grip. Really cuts down on the beg factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) In the end, the law dosen't matter. It all depends on whats IN the mind of the LEO who approaches you. If he is going to "wright you up", he WILL find something to charge you with. I know, because it happened to me. I now have a felony conviction that will follow me for life. The "funny" part? After $20,000 for a lawyer, and having the charges dismissed, I was able to get not only a ffl, but a CCW FROM THE STATE of California. Came from the same Sheriffs department that had arrested me. Yea, I still carry, but ONLY conceled! The fewer LEO'S that know I carry, the better!!!!!!! Respectfully Terry And, Blue, very respectfully, lifting your shirt COULD be construed as "brandishing" the firearm. After my arrest, I paid my attourny a lot of money to educate me in the neuances of the firearms law.. T Edited September 3, 2013 by Tripledeuce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) I lift before I get out of the car. I think obviously exposing while walking up would be pretty douchy, but AZ is a long way away from CA legally. Our defensive display laws are pretty friendly. I always expose at ATM machines, pumping gas late at night, and when I'm out walking with my little girl. I guess I expose when I'm in a situation where I personally may be a target. I conceal when I'm part of the herd. Edited September 3, 2013 by blue109 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Texas is a LONG way from California, too. Respectfully Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas30cal Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 A new law went into effect here yesterday protecting CHL holders from charges of unlawful carry for the accidental display of a handgun, this was one of the biggest worries for a lot of CHL holders here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Sounds like people need education to me I am not a fan of open carry I do believe it draws unwanted attention... but I do understand a persons right to open carry . We have a person in a very high up city job here and this guy is a bit over weight and has alot of tattoos all during the summer I see him open carry not only here but in other towns and no one has ever said anything and I know not many if any know what he does for a living.... Now some state here it is not a good idea to open carry because some leo or people will find it offensive or freaky well so what they need education as well it is NOT against the law. If this type of reasoning were valid then why have any laws? because if some folks can interpret them as they see fit then why have a law? It always reminds me why we have locks on our doors, security on our homes, and now all the super duper locks and cameras on everything because of criminals if there were none we would not need theft insurance or locks pon our car doors..... the problem is our lack of educating crim inals anymore Crime does pay just look at the sales of locks....... If criminals were treated as the scum they are this problem would go away and people would in turn not be so paranoid about everything including seeing a gun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatshooter Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Concealed carry tips for female shooters - Herald Tribune - September 2, 2013http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtribune.com/13937/concealed-carry-tips-for-female-shooters/ [snip] "Our hip to waist ratios, especially for smaller framed ladies, exclude some carry options for us. The second one concerns the differences between male and female modes of dress – and that issue we do have more control over. That said, if you are a female who is serious about carrying concealed at all times, you will need to get used to altering your mind set when selecting your wardrobe." "the process of holster selection for both men and women, concealment/accessibility and retention, must sometimes be compromised to accommodate certain types of female wardrobe." [snip] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Arizona's "defensive display": http://www.azleg.state.az.us/search/oop/qfullhit.asp?CiWebHitsFile=/ars/13/00421.htm&CiRestriction=%22defensive+display%22 This was passed specifically because people were being prosecuted for "brandishing" a weapon, after calling police and reporting an incident which was stopped only after having produced a firearm. "Well a dude demanded my car and flashed a knife, so I drew my gun and the dude took off." "You drew your gun and showed it to him?" "Yeah, and he ran away." "Sir, I'm going to have to cite you for brandishing a firearm." This was primarily by a few officers in metro areas and they finally cited the wrong few people, with decent political connections. If you're open carrying (or concealed carrying) and someone with bad intent is focusing ON you, and you're not taking evasive action prior to them being close enough to strike, what makes you think you'll know when/how to respond in the first place? Open or concealed, TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Colion Noir on open carry http://www.mrcolionnoir.com/right-to-carry/open-carry-demonstrations/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrtmasp Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) Colion Noir on open carryhttp://www.mrcolionnoir.com/right-to-carry/open-carry-demonstrations/Good post, Easy. He makes too much sense sometimes and is a very articulate guy. It's great watching responsible people enjoy certain rights like the original vid. However, many great points have been made on both sides. Some dink that wants to goat the police into an encounter to force his or her civil liberties down their throats gets old real quick. I'd like to see more open carry laws but I personally would not do it if I were allowed to do so. It is dangerous to open carry on an everyday basis (IMO) if you don't know how to defend yourself. Some a-hole that wants to try take you by surprise will likely always have a slight edge (just one of many bad scenarios). I don't want anyone in the general public to know I'm carrying when off-duty unless I need to use my gun. Edited September 3, 2013 by jrtmasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 People reading my post seem to have missed my real point. Open or concieled, the real problem, to me, seems to be the uneducatd LEO's who respond to the call. In the end, it all depends on how the LEO responds to the call, not how the law is written. I know not ALL LEO's are this way. My younger brother was a Seargent on a Calif police force, my uncle was a Deputy on a Sheriffs department. Another "Uncle" ( cousin, seemed more like an uncle) was another Seargent on a different police force. Interpertation of the law is the killer. Is the LEO in a "good" mood? Has he just had an argument with his wife? Did his seargent just chew him out over something? The " lets just take him in and let the upperechelon take care of it is all to easy for the leo on the sciene. I'm just say'n, if the guy on the ground wants to make something of it, He can, and sometimes ( to many times) will. Respectfully Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrtmasp Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) ^^^Terry, it's a good post for discussion and I believe many of us understood the context of your original statement. It just merely veered into another case in point of open carry. Many of your statements are accurate but a department's chain of command is not going to get involved in a simple arrest if there are no glaring issues. That is unless a department is so incredibly and overwhelmingly micromanaged that nothing goes unchecked. This is unlikely. As you may have read, I agree that the charge of DC can be abused. It all comes down to training. A well-trained professional LEO should have a better understanding of how to correctly apply laws even better than a lawyer in regards to quick decision making. A poorly trained and uneducated LEO is a different story. Remember that lawyers are not there during the commission of crimes and often have months and years to pick apart reports. Additionally, many many of these youtube videos show a video that did not tape all of a particular event or events. I'm not saying that this one is an example of that just mentioning it. People all too often get so worked up when they see aggressive police action but ironically enough the seconds before it are "magically" not available. It seems that up to half the people I encounter, dependant upon the area, hate LEO and the job is often thankless. It requires a tough skin and constant professionalism. Edited September 3, 2013 by jrtmasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra644 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 I have yet to find a reason to arrest someone, maybe I am too smart for my own good.Well maybe not if I were, Iwould have been a Fireman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 I have been detained twice in a larger city here in Idaho both times people called in and said I had a gun both times I did not have one the first time I was eating lunch with a friend in a Pizza hut I saw some plain clothes guys come in and look around and talk to the manager I even said Hmmmm whats going on , then they walked straight to me and asked if I would mind going out side to talk to them I said no problem, once outside one of the LEO's asked me if I would raise my carhart coat up on the right side I did and the other one said it is not a gun it is a knife( a Buck folder in a sheath) at that time I asked WTF is going on they explained they had a caall saying I had a gun I said well they were wrong have a nice day. Well then one of them says I want to see some ID I said no and I said now that you know I do NOT have a gun you should be wishing me a good day and let me get back to my COLD lunch they got pissy so I said OK get your ID out as well and I will meet you at the sherrif's office and we will get this straightened out right now.... went to the S.O. and demanded to talk to the duty sargent I explained what happened he asked me if I wanted a verbel apology or a written one I told him I just did not want to have this happen again with these men and that was that.... they got a ass reaming and I ate a cold lunch... Second time I was flying my Goshawk at rabbits along the interstate ( I am a licenced falconer) when I headed back to my truck I see a sherrifs car pull in both got out and one took the rear of the vehicle with his gun pulled... I am standing there with a 2 lb bird on my left wrist and nothing in my right hand, first thing out of my mouth is WTF is going on here, the one in front relpies we have a report of a sniper on the hiway. I asked do I look like I have a rifle? they say what are you doing here I explain the bird catches rabbits and I control the bird and that I was licened by the US fish and game to have the bird and while hunting with a bird of prey it is against the law to have a weapon with you or in your vehicle....... now the guy at the back of the car is really nervous he is red in the face and twitchy and I say to the other guy hey your buddy is stressed out tell him to please point that thing in another direction we can work this out quickly you can search my truck no problem.... so the guy say put the bird down , I say well I have to put him in the truck he says ok move slow I put the bird away and tell them look for your self, well all this time I am wearing a small black narrow case on my back It is mt radio telemetry antenna and all of a sudden it makes sense what they are saying so I tell them hey thei is a radio antena come get it they do and then every one relaxes. Turns out it was the first day on the job for the twitchy one but everything was ok after they understood what I had but someone had called in and told them it was a gun.... so you never know what someone else thinks......be carefull there are a ton of parinod folks out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 so....you hunt with a falcon. You have officially become the most bad ass person on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 so....you hunt with a falcon. You have officially become the most bad ass person on this forum. between that and the damned wolves, there is absolutely 0 question in my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Omg I forgot about the wolves!!! When the apocalypse comes magwa will be our leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 between that and the damned wolves, there is absolutely 0 question in my mind Don't be too hasty, he may have never roped a deer... We can't make a determination until we know if he's roped a deer. If he has, he's a shoe-in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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