D.R.D. Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I know, I know...-roll eyes- Here's my point in posing this: We've all heard the accolades Larue's platforms (especially OBR) is getting for being the top "out-of-the-box" dog for 308ARs. Well, I've got 2 questions: 1. I know very little about DPMS other than that they proliferated the SR25 platform in contrast to Armalite's AR10 (we will omit RRA for this discussion). Many on this forum have LR308s or have built on this platform. How good are they? What's the best out of the box DPMS? Can you tweak a DPMS to perform like an OBR? 2. For those of you that own a Larue (or have spend some time behind one), is it difficult to achieve or surpass the accuracy and reliability of an OBR with your own franken-build? For Example - a set of Maten or Si-Defense receivers, Fulton barrel, Geissele trigger, etc. clearing .5 MOA or less. Wasn't sure if I should've posted this on the DPMS or Larue section, so I dumped it here. Just trying to learn a bit more about real-world performance from what's available on the market. Cheers, DRD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 In my opinion accuracy is probably 60% barrel, 30% ammo and 10% other. So you could probably build a bottom end cost LR308 for all other parts, and put a noveske or criterion barrel on it and hit .5moa from bench rest or prone. Figure a low end upper/lower is $500, $200 for bottom end BCG, LPK+ cheap stock and lower completion $200, plain handguard and little junk another $100 and $600 on barrel could be pretty hot at $1600 or so. might not be the prettiest, might be finicky on magazines, etc but still should be ok.reliability might be a little different question, and for that you'd probably want a nicer upper/lower and more premium bolt carrier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Since I own one I can talk a bit about them, my question is what does the Larue do that mine won't? I have been a tweeker of guns all my life and the single most important thing you can do to a gun to make it better is put a first rate trigger on it... on my bolt guns i run Kiplinger single set triggers. Now back to DPMS I bought one new, broke the barrel in correctly as i do with all barrel break ins shoot 1 clean up to 50 then shoot 2 clean up to 75 then shoot three and clean till you get to 100 rounds... I kept the bolt and all moving parts dripping wet during this process and now all parts are like silk... now the important part I have not had 1 zero nada, FTF or FTE or any problem NONE! and I can get one hole groups at 100 yards Accuracy is measured by these factors Case preparation, quality of barrel,quality of projectiles, details in loading and Trigger, that makes up 80 percent the other 20 percent is between your ears....... Mods to my rifle , a spikes battle trigger, apex hand guard that's it as far as internals the rest is cosmetics and optics a vortex diamond back my primary use for this gun is hunting..... so I ask what will the Larue do that mine won't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 So Edgecrusher (a LaRue OBR owner) and I (a high end SI-D owner) both sat down and shot each others rifles. As you could have expected, we both liked our own rifle more... but they were each designed to fit US and only US. On the flip side, we both respected the hell out of the other rifle. I really like the OBR... After going through all the headache to build my rifle, I look back and think I would have changed my mind had I known what I was in for. Being finished with my rifle, there's no way I'd go back. As for a DPMS achieving OBR status... That's like saying, "Can my Nissan Frontier be as formidable as a Dodge 3500 turbo diesel?" Sure it can... You just have to replace EVERYTHING, and start over from scratch..... OK, I'm exaggerating. You could probably make a very close clone with either the RECON or the SASS versions... but expect to make some modifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 so I ask what will the Larue do that mine won't? No such thing as "break in" for a LaRue. You literally pay so that you have to put in ZERO work on the rifle. A local SWAT program just outfitted their sniper team with LaRue OBR's. They were told the rifles were ready to go into service immediately. If there were any issues, to send the rifle back immediately. On day one, the bolts were ripping the rim off the casings. A phone call to LaRue, and 3 new bolts were in the mail that night. LaRue said they fine tuned the first bolts to be fired with Winchester ammo. The new bolts are designed to work with Federal. Flawless ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goofball310 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 so I ask what will the Larue do that mine won't? Mine says Larue on it and yours doesn't. :)) On a serious note, the DPMS can shoot as well as Larue but will need a bit of tweaking depending on which model you buy originally. Your best inital investment is going to be a trigger. Depending on what you intend to do with the rifle will help narrow down what which trigger to buy. For ammo dumps, home defense, and accuracy up to 100 yards I like single stage triggers. On rifles that I shoot past 100 yards I prefer two stage triggers. When you start buying custom AR's you're paying for proprietary parts, tighter tolerances, and additional parts that you may or may not need (ambi selectors, ambi charge handles, etc). A few builders like Larue/Christensen/GAP stand by their product and guarantee sub MOA rifles out the door. That doesn't mean DPMS can't shoot sub MOA out of the box cause I've seen a few that have but that is just not the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Armory Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I shot one larue ,a very nice gun. Good build quality, fit and finish were smooth. But wortth what was spent on it, I don't think so. I would venture most owners have them as safe queens ! I own two Dpms rifles ; First bought it back in 2008 have 1600 - 1800 rounds thur it. Only one FTE at round 57 and I broke the charging handle that is the only problem I have had from it. 16 inch barrel iron sights takes dpms ,c products and Pmags. $1250 and dependable. Second was a 24 inch Bull barrel upper I got from Brownells for $950 , I have had this on 5 different lowers. I changed quadrail added scope , gunfighter chaging handle., bipod has come and gone.. curent lower has a two stage trigger. Magpul buttstock and other goodies. It shoot sub moa but I have had a few minor problems. Price comes in a few hundred dollars less than a Larue but its a one of a kind. I would take my cheap 16 inch dpms to war !! It is the most depandable gun I own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) I'll just throw this in there, while it's a hot topic. When they were still selling their Monolithic platform, I bought and built a SR-25/style .308 off of the Mega Arms MA TEN platform, based on using DPMS compatible parts. Here's the final rundown of the parts list: Mega MA TEN Monolithic Rifle Length chassis (upper & lower) Fulton Armory 18.5 Mid-weight Rifle length gas system Fulton Armory Titan bolt assy. FA low pro aluminum gas block SI Defense Nickel Boron bolt carrier PACT SR Gold trigger Battle Arms BADASS (saftey lever) CAA G17 Grip Magpul PRS stock, Magpul rail covers, Magpul mags Bobro/GG&G Bipod Ops Inc. 12th Model muzzle brake and suppressor combo LaRue Tactical QD 10MOA single piece scope mount The only custom work that this rifle has ever seen, was the tapered collar for sealing the rear of the suppressor, which I machined myself and was only an additional component for assembly. All I did was put all that together, basic assembly required, and no fitting of any parts with the exception of the aforementioned collar. The beast easily shoots .75MOA with sub grade match ammo, and .5MOA with FGMM and comparable ammo. The total price tag for all that comes up to the $4k mark. Would I do it again? You bet! I know my rifle inside and out, and I can't reasonably ask it to perform any better.The OBR is a fantastic piece of gear, but had I built my same design off that platform, I would easily be at the $6k investment mark. The short answer is that a Franken-rifle CAN meet or exceed it, but you have to buy premium components to do so, and while you might end up coming out cheaper still, the margin won't be exceedingly wide. Edited January 21, 2014 by Matt.Cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Armory Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Shot Edge's and Rob's gun both are very nice ! I would be afraid of breaking the Larue Rob's seemed tuffer. OK .... maybe it was the scope ! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Great input all. Bottom line: Seems like it depends on how much you want to put into the rifle, to make it "yours". One might even have to do this to a high end OBR (I'd certainly change the stock and grip, for starters). I suppose custom builds or DYI are the way to go, in order to truly get what you want, what works best for you, and save a little change all the while (you'll put that towards glass and ammo). Edited January 21, 2014 by D.R.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 RRA .308 no break in,no running wet.Only change was trigger SSA-E from RRA 2 stage N.M..While I had no problem with stock trigger,SSA-E was a different animal altogether.And it was on sale.RRA star ambi-select is great selector,but I did put on a BAD selector to support our sponsor and for no other reason.My rifle shoots better than I can.Has a little weight 14.5 lbs. w/full magazineJust my 2 mags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripledeuce Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm with Rene. Have basicly 2 RRA a semi custom 260 rem, and a new 308 Preditor. My 260 was a build, so some tinkering was involved. Not much. The Preditoe,,,shot right from the box. No failures of any kind. less than an inch with match ammo. Respectfully Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Guys I get it everyone loves their own rifles and that is how it should be but back to my question,What will the larue do that mine won't my answer is nothing, is it made from better parts? maybe but are they needed? probably not.... I do not need to tune my bolt to fire a certain brand of ammo my gun has shot just about every surplus ammo and federal and barnes and remington all without fail I want a gun that when I pick it up to use I have no reservations about it and mine fills that bill total invested about 1500 so having said that if Larue is your baby I am all for it same with RRA, Noveske, S&W whatever floats your boat if you are happy I am happy for you .... none of them are elite some just cost more..... My 3 cents. P.S. I have many friends who have bought POF and they sit in the safe they do not even know if they function,, no matter what you got shoot em that is what they are for.. peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Magwa, Which DPMS do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) LR 308c it is a carbine ,16 inch barrel carbine gas system only things not stock are trigger,mags,front sight and hand guard. and the flash hider -brake Edited January 22, 2014 by Magwa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Awesome. How far have you taken her out to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The farthest I have shot this gun is 300 I have about 800 rds thru it but my scope is not what i would call a good paper punching scope it is a hunting rifle and I have no problem keeping on a 6 inch paper plate at 300, I am looking for a place to stretch it out this spring.. I have killed both elk and deer with this gun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I feel I need to explain my feelings on elite anything so that forum members do not misunderstand me or think that I think my DPMS is as good as a larue or whatever brand. I know the difference between a Ferrari and Ford Mustang I also know both will get you from Point A to point B, Having grown up poor I have always had to settle for the Ford and do the best i could with it ,same with guns I have never owned a 3000,00 dollar gun I did have a Ruger red label shotgun and it would shoot with any custom over and under, I killed a lot of Chuckars with it and they never knew the difference , which brings us to fishing (didn't see that coming did you?) I have met many many people and some are friends of mine that are what I call Gloomis snobs they think if it ain't Gloomis and cost 400.00 for a fishing rod that it is no good, all the while I catch more fish on my Cabelas fisheagle 2 fishing rod that cost 60 bucks and so I ask them what will that Gloomis do that mine won't do and they say well you can feel each and every movement of the fish and i say i feel em bite i set the hook and reel em in! So Please do not think I don't like awesome things like cars and guns and Fishing rods I do but I have never been able to afford them I have to dance with the girl who brung me..... Now I would love to shoot them and ride in them and i have caught a few fish on my buddies rods but at the end of the day i have to make do with what i have so I strive to make it the very best I can and take really good care of it.... beside you guys who own Larue must be strong guys because they are heavy bastards!.... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The critical question is, will it do what you need it to do, every time? If the answer to that question is yes, it doesn't matter if your weapon is Taiwanese silly putty, nobody can ask for more than that. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 What Matt said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Great input everyone. Your responses have fundamentally shifted the way I look at this more than any "gear review" or technical chart. Thanks for all your perspectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I have never bought or owned an AR 15/16 that I haven't built & that includes several select fire versions . I would not think twice about taking any of the ones I've built for others or the ones I own, into combat . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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