biggcary Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 I apologize in advance for the lengthy post but I do not do this type of stuff very often so be kind and gentle with me please...;-)... I am a new member to this forum. I have been a hunter (deer, upland game birds, hogs, etc.) and range shooter for many years now. I have an above average amount of experience and knowledge with traditional bolt action, lever action, muzzleloader, and shotgun type firearms both in the field and on the range. A few years ago, I was looking to get into something new and different so I decided to purchase a "modern sporting rifle". After doing a considerable amount of research, my first purchase was a Daniel Defense AR-15 M4V4 rifle. I immediately fell in love with this rifle because it was not only fun to shoot but also fun to modify and configure to my personal preferences - all of which I was able to do myself. I spent the next few years learning as much as I could about the AR-15 platform with my DDM4V4 being the guinea pig for a variety of different modifications I made. Having had this experience, I would like to take on a ground up build for a new rifle but I would like it to be in .308WIN (DPMS pattern). I have spent a considerable amount of time researching various products from various manufacturers to do this build but instead of telling the forum what I would like to use for this build, I thought I would ask the forum for their recommended components AND WHY THEY ARE RECOMMENDING THEM for this build given the following constraints, preferences, and intended usage: Budget - approx. $1,600 excluding any costs associated with optics or mounts Usage - hunting and range shooting typically at 200 yards or less with a max. range of 400 yards (for the shooter, not the gun) Weight - I am not a young man anymore so I do not want to be humping a 15lb+ gun (fully loaded) through the woods so weight is important to me but I will trade this off vs. cost where it makes sense Ammo - good quality factory or hand loaded ammo with 125gr-165gr bullets with the typical bullet weight being 150gr Accuracy - MOA at a minimum with sub-MOA being preferred with a willingness to trade some of this off vs. cost where it makes sense Gas System - DI is preferred over piston unless someone has a compelling reason for me to go down that road Barrels, BCG's, and gas system lengths - I have probably spent more time looking at this dimension of my build than anything else given its importance so I would be very interested hear what the forum would recommend for barrel lengths (18"? 20"?), barrel manufacturers, barrel material, fluted or not, CHF or other barrel manufacturing methods, gas blocks, gas system lengths and why, muzzle brakes, properly head spaced BCG's and barrels, BCG manufacturer's and materials, etc.. Rail - low profile, free float rail system with round being preferred as opposed to a four sided rail Upper, lower, buffer, stock, trigger group and associated parts kits - recommend anything you like here that is in the DPMS pattern universe but I would be interested in getting some perspectives on "matched" billet upper/lower receivers from specific manufacturers vs. a "mix and match" type configuration from other manufacturers if any of you have an opinion on this vs. the cost for these solutions. Thanks in advance for your willingness to respond to this post and I will look forward to seeing your responses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Welcome from AZ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 SI Defense Ambi Matched Receiver Set Criterion 16" SS Rifle Length Barrel Any Reputable "NiB" BCG.... SI-D makes one! CMC Trigger BAD Inc Ambi Safety MechArmor Defence TacOps-1 Magpul MOE+ Grip APEX CNC 15" Handguard Any reputable muzzle brake (AAC, Lantac, PRI, JP... Etc) Rifle length gas tube and low profile gas block Mission First Tactical "Minimalist" Stock and Assembly... Don't forget the receiver plate with a QD mount! Slash's Heavy Carbine Buffer and AR-10 Buffer Spring.... Or ask Farkle about his Vltor A5 combo setup. Never look back, thank me later, and don't forget to tip your waitress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 PS. Normally I'd recommend the BattleComp BABC... but that's for a more "tactical" use and not so much for the hunter/target rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 PPS. If you build that rifle above... and you use a single CMMG part... I'll ban you from this forum. Just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm guessing CMMG won't be a site sponsor anytime soon. Should send em a bill though. They get mentioned enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKSHEEP Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) ^^^Robocop specked you a nice build for $1800ish. For accuracy spare no expense in your barrel & trigger choice, the rest are style, weight, bells & whistles. For hunting barrels I prefer fluted w/crown, no brake or comp, ounces are pounds. https://kriegerbarrels.com/products#ar10 http://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-ultramatchtm-308-barrel-16-6552 http://criterionbarrels.com/barrels/ar-10 http://www.lothar-walther.com/473.php https://www.mcgowenbarrel.com/ar15-ar10-barrels/ http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPSM308-16L10 http://www.shop.blackholeweaponry.com/308-Win-308B-caliber-16-length-AR10-308-16.htm http://www.harrisbarrelworks.com/arcontours.html Triggers..... http://geissele.com/hi-speed-national-match-designated-marksman-rifle-dmr-trigger.html http://pact.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=58&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1 http://www.elftmanntactical.com/store/product/elf-ar-10-308-trigger/ http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/triggers/ar-style-308-drop-in-trigger-module-prod45084.aspx http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/triggers/ar-15-two-stage-triggers-prod70975.aspx http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=10309050&ReturnUrl=categories2.aspx?Category=dfc0f777-5c39-4edf-bb6b-90009c5adc2c For your BCG you might want to grab this one... Edited February 19, 2015 by BLKSHEEP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggcary Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Many thanks for the responses to my post. I am familiar with some of the components that have been recommended by the forum members but what I would also like to know is WHY you have recommended any given component. For example, is it based upon personal experience and demonstrated performance when compared to other options and what were those other experience based options? Is it a product quality vs. cost value proposition thing? Is it a product support/customer service preference? Is it a product compatibility/non-proprietary preference? Is it some other product bias for whatever reason you are willing to share? Also, I neglected to ask about tools needed to support my build. Although I have quite a few tools that I have traditionally used to maintain/modify my AR-15, what would you recommend I need in the way of any specialized tools for a .308AR build where my AR-15 tools would not be usable? Thanks again for your willingness to share your insights and experience with me in support of my build! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 For your BCG you might want to grab this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I apologize in advance for the lengthy post but I do not do this type of stuff very often so be kind and gentle with me please...;-)...Welcome! I commend you for clearly stating your requirements and use cases so that we can come up with some specifications for you! Requirements always drive specifications and it's frustrating when people don't give you enough to work on to at least give a decent recommendation. This is a mindset I'm trying to change.I will follow up on some recommendations later tonight on your components :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggcary Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Sounds good FaRKle!...I will look forward to seeing your recommendations and please remember to indicate why you are recommending any given component... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Sounds good FaRKle!...I will look forward to seeing your recommendations and please remember to indicate why you are recommending any given component... This is your intro thread - start a build thread and you'll get more info. Not everybody hits the intro section, in order to provide technical information, on a routine basis. Nobody is gonna build your rifle in this thread. You'll thank me later. As to the "why" - there are a million "whys" on products. Some of the product research is going to have to come from you. You're not going to always get a product recommendation, and get a big list of "Whys" on that product. Making that a stated requirement will definitely hinder your responses. Example - if I like a certain product because I've been using it for years, and it just works, but you want me to tell you why I like it - I may not put in the effort to tell you. Hell, it's well known, never had a bad reivew, and I might not feel like listing a bunch of information that's already available almost everywhere you turn on the internet. I'll just skip answering, and let you do the legwork. Just a tip... People recommend things - research what they recommend, and come up with your own "why-nots..." Edited February 20, 2015 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Usage - hunting and range shooting typically at 200 yards or less with a max. range of 400 yards (for the shooter, not the gun)Weight - I am not a young man anymore so I do not want to be humping a 15lb+ gun (fully loaded) through the woods so weight is important to me but I will trade this off vs. cost where it makes senseAmmo - good quality factory or hand loaded ammo with 125gr-165gr bullets with the typical bullet weight being 150grAccuracy - MOA at a minimum with sub-MOA being preferred with a willingness to trade some of this off vs. cost where it makes senseBarrels, BCG's, and gas system lengths - I have probably spent more time looking at this dimension of my build than anything else given its importance so I would be very interested hear what the forum would recommend for barrel lengths (18"? 20"?), barrel manufacturers, barrel material, fluted or not, CHF or other barrel manufacturing methods, gas blocks, gas system lengths and why, muzzle brakes, properly head spaced BCG's and barrels, BCG manufacturer's and materials, etc..Given these, I recommend a 16" barrel. It will accomplish all of these requirements without being a pig. Rainier Arms and Mega Arms are well known for putting out quality barrels that will hold the accuracy you're looking for. If you don't mind waiting a bit longer, I'd also wait till our forum sponsor, Criterion, re-releases their rifle-gassed 16" barrel. The rifle-length gas system will make for a smoother and softer recoil impulse.For a BCG, what you choose doesn't matter as much as long as it's from a quality brand. Unlike AR-15s, the bolt material for a .308AR isn't as critical since the original AR-10 was designed to use 8620 steel (and AR-10 rifles still come with 8620 bolts). A 9310 or C158 bolt will be fine. I also don't care for fancy coatings as they don't seem to add much value functionally.Aero Precision makes a good BCG at a good price.With a mid-length gas system and 16" barrel it wouldn't hurt to get an adjustable gas block. SLR Rifleworks makes an excellent one that doesn't get locked up with fouling, has very positive clicks, and is well made. I use one on my AR pistol. They're also coming out with a lightweight titanium version soon. If you choose to not get an adjustable one, be sure to get one from a quality manufacturer. There are many gas blocks out there that aren't made that well and therefore don't seal as well as they should. BCM is my go to "cheap" gas block and has always fitted very snugly on any barrel I've put one on. Whether you get an adjustable gas block or not, get the set screw version over a clamp on one and be sure to dimple the barrel if not already done. Dimpling will prevent the block from rotating mechanically unlike a clamp on. Loctite on the screw threads is also important (blue 242 works fine).Rail - low profile, free float rail system with round being preferred as opposed to a four sided railGo light. This is an area you can easily save weight. Some of the lightest rails I've seen are the Fortis Switch, JL Billet, and SLR Lite/Ultra Lite rails.Upper, lower, buffer, stock, trigger group and associated parts kits - recommend anything you like here that is in the DPMS pattern universe but I would be interested in getting some perspectives on "matched" billet upper/lower receivers from specific manufacturers vs. a "mix and match" type configuration from other manufacturers if any of you have an opinion on this vs. the cost for these solutions.Getting a matched upper and lower is a good idea due to the various tolerances in the .308AR world. Aero Precision's are the popular choice right now (cheap, but good). For some of the nicest you can find though (workmanship), Mega and SI-Defense are where it's at.I will always recommend going with an AR-10 pattern buffer system. It consists of an AR-10 pattern receiver extension (such as VLTOR's A5 receiver extensions), AR-10 action spring, and H3 AR-15 carbine buffer. This provides for a smoother recoil stroke and is closer to the original Stoner design. It also allows you to tune your buffer weight much cheaper. Edited February 20, 2015 by FaRKle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
912dawg Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Welcome from GA! I recently joined this forum for the same reasons as yourself. There is an enormous amount of information on this site broken up into different categories. Once you become familiar with how things are organized, usually you'll find what you're looking for in an existing thread. When I haven't been able to find something, these guys have been extremely helpful. Someone has always been willing to share their knowledge and experience with me. Good luck on your build! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggcary Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 98Z5V - Yes, I was starting to get that feeling...Newbie mistake....and thanks for the sound advice... FaRKLe! - Exactly the type of insight and perspective I was hoping to get...Many thanks for taking the time to do this post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Sometimes component choice is as simple as availability, you might buy a Elftmann trigger for instance if all the Geiselle are sold out or backordered... Most of the recommendations here are from direct experience with the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Welcome from Indiana brother,you'r off to a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) 98Z5V - Yes, I was starting to get that feeling...Newbie mistake....and thanks for the sound advice... Not a mistake at all, brother - it's just something like "fishing in the wrong pond..." Not many people even hit the Intro section. You start a build thread, and it's like throwing chum in shark-infested waters... <lmao> Edited February 22, 2015 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Armory Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Welcome from AZ ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffg Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Not a mistake at all, brother - it's just something like "fishing in the wrong pond..." Not many people even hit the Intro section. You start a build thread, and it's like throwing chum in shark-infested waters... <lmao> Like throwing chum in shark infested water,what ever do you mean. Are you implying this site is full of enablers or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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