alternative chamberings

[308lrnewb]

• A big bore hunting cartridge delivering effective terminal performance on medium to large North American game animals including Deer, Hogs, Elk, Moose and Bear within 200 yards.

What others have dropped from said list? Two rifles weigh more than one. If you are going pack-lite, I am already in to a five round bolt-action using a 6.5x47... I think the mindset here is being missed. This is a do-all build. The 5.56 and 300AAC "1.5 rifles" has proven to be both quite functional and well met.

[shepp]

White tail deer, magwa's shot many elk with his. But your obviously not looking for anyone else's opinion so have fun, good luck

[survivalshop]

  I'm all for someone having another Upper in another Caliber for the platform , be it a small frame or large frame AR , but carrying another Upper Receiver with you hunting , just is not logical or make any sense . If you are hunting in your back yard , I can see it , but trucking hill or dale , well ............................................. 

  There is no caliber , including the M2 50 cal. that is a good shoot through brush caliber , they all are deflected going through even light brush , it doesn't take much to destabilize a spinning projectile , its been proven over & over again . 

 

 

[DNP]

Sounds like an excellent plan. Be sure to share the details as it builds up. 

[98Z5V]

On 8/26/2016 at 5:04 PM, 308lrnewb said:

http://www.45raptor.com/45RAPTOR/

So... I am not asking who has one - because my bank roll is a bit tight right now.. BUT... anyone heard of this yet?

 

Have you priced any of the components yet?  Reason I ask is from information on the 45Raptor website, and your comments above about the tight bank roll.

Quote

"Question – What can I buy and when?

Answer – Brass, magazines, and muzzle brakes are available for order at Raptor Shooting Systems.  Barrels are available for order from Satern Custom Machine.  The AR world has changed dramatically and now many people enjoy assembling their own uppers and rifles.  As such,  we are focused on serving these customers first.   

460 SMITH & WESSON MAGNUM reloading dies are available from multiple manufacturers and multiple large reloading tool and component dealers including http://www.MidwayUSA.com and http://www.Brownells.com."

 

Got that from halfway down this page:

http://www.45raptor.com/45RAPTOR/faq/

Edited August 30, 2016 by 98Z5V

[308lrnewb]

I would need a set of dies, barrel and magazine follower set. The brass is reasonable when throwing in the 1913 brass catching attachment from brownells. Any standard .45# reloading projectile should work when accounted for properly. I have already addressed the issues of cyclic control and action.

I will leave it a moot point. Documentation will be highly limited. Pictures later.

In response, the reloading supplies are on par with the .308 winchester.. Quality brass to brass, powder costs. As to why not having multiple calibers per trip? Same reason why people go insane with those wildey pistols or hunting revolvers. It makes the trip more enjoyable. Perhaps, you are hunting northern america and want to shoot a moose. That ten rounds of 45raptor could be a nice comfort while trekking to your 'camp' for that one chance shot. Then, for just a few pounds more.. you swap out to that 308win or 6.5x47 and fire from one of those ten round magazines. Not all too much weight here. I've never been on any real hike where there was not a breather at some time. We all move at our own pace. It is not like we are talking about a timed event.

[98Z5V]

51 minutes ago, 308lrnewb said:

I would need a set of dies, barrel and magazine follower set.

I haven't been able to find a magazine follower set yet.  So far, all I can find are the modified mags, at $50 each.  Brass is expensive, but that cost goes away, depending on how many reloads you get from each piece.  I've found $215 per 250, $400 per 500, and $750 per 1,000 pieces.

Edited August 30, 2016 by 98Z5V

[DNP]

He found a loophole in the rule. We gotta fix that. 

[survivalshop]

http://www.45raptor.com/45RAPTOR/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/45-Raptor-Minimum-Velocities-Ballistic-Chart.pdf

Doesn't say what barrel length they used for testing .

Edited August 30, 2016 by survivalshop

[98Z5V]

That thing has the glide ratio of a brick.

[Magwa]

forget this notion of 1and 1/2 rifles for hunting it makes no sense, the 308 with 168 grain bullets will do it all, but if you still want to chop wood you could have a mag of 180's and a mag of 168 but i assure you having humped one of these rifles up and down serious elk country and having killed many elk and I do many many that the less weight you hump the better now of course all this is just my opinion but I used to shoot a 4570 for a so called elk brush gun till i figured out you don't take shots through brush anyway you wait for a clean shot then it matters not what you shoot them with hit em right behind the shoulder 1/2 way down and you are a happy camper....

[shepp]

3 hours ago, Magwa said:

forget this notion of 1and 1/2 rifles for hunting it makes no sense, the 308 with 168 grain bullets will do it all, but if you still want to chop wood you could have a mag of 180's and a mag of 168 but i assure you having humped one of these rifles up and down serious elk country and having killed many elk and I do many many that the less weight you hump the better now of course all this is just my opinion but I used to shoot a 4570 for a so called elk brush gun till i figured out you don't take shots through brush anyway you wait for a clean shot then it matters not what you shoot them with hit em right behind the shoulder 1/2 way down and you are a happy camper....

Thank you magwa, I was hoping that you would post. backed the points I was trying to say and then some. The best waiting for a clean, ethical shot. that is our biggest responsability as hunters!!

Edited August 31, 2016 by shepp

[308lrnewb]

I appreciate the interest, gentlemen. The raptor brass is costly, but so is decent any brass. You are factoring being in position, then firing from a long(er) distance in all instances. neither have any naysayers commented on sub 50 yard effectiveness on boar/bear. I agree - the weight is a lot. But, for the weight addition of a heavy hunting revolver it is nearly moot.

The smaller rounds such as the 200 and 230 non-expanding projectiles will produce similar exit wounds to any .30" hollowpoint.

Those charts were done on the 16" barrel if I understood correctly. Farther up on one page the author comments about how all testing was done with 16" barrel and all claims would be validated by such length tubing.

If any of you have ever tried hunting closer distances than 200-400 yards, you would likely know the experience of shrubs, branches or otherwise "brush". Yes, I agree - it can be 'ethically' challenged about taking "unclean shots" You also bark right into the park of 'perfect scenarios'. Not going out with the intent of firing at any animal like that. I have been unlucky enough to stumble upon dog and cat dens when out. I have also been in the position, good ole .30-30 just would not inspire confidence when firing past and through pine nettles. I have seen smaller projectiles deflect and completely miss when hitting 1/4" sticks. No, the 45raptor is not a 50bmg. Nor will it ever be. However, it surely will not suffer the same issues as something a bit lighter.

Yes, it agreeably is throwing a brick. But, the intended purpose is a bit different from just scrubbing something near half mile away. Last time tried stalking.. I ended up running in circles waiting for that 'clean shot'. I went hungry that night. I pursued for nearly an hour.

Life is not perfect. As far as any comment goes about 'ruined game'.. I seldom eat deer ribs, the dogs however - sure enjoy a half mangled rack coming off the firepit.

[ARTrooper]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 9:47 PM, 308lrnewb said:

A big bore hunting cartridge delivering effective terminal performance on medium to large North American game animals including Deer, Hogs, Elk, Moose and Bear within 200 yards.

45 raptor is to much gun for deer, hogs, and elk. I'm sure it would work for moose and grizzly, but is it even needed? and say you are walking around with the raptor upper on your rifle and come across the biggest white tail of your life. I myself wouldn't pull the trigger because I know that when I shoot, I would destroy to much meat. that's why I stopped hunting white tails with .30-06, so many people use it but in my experience it just destroys more than needed, so I definitely wouldn't hunt deer with anything bigger.

1 hour ago, 308lrnewb said:

I have also been in the position, good ole .30-30 just would not inspire confidence when firing past and through pine nettles. I have seen smaller projectiles deflect and completely miss when hitting 1/4" sticks. No, the 45raptor is not a 50bmg. Nor will it ever be. However, it surely will not suffer the same issues as something a bit lighter.

When trying to go through pine nettles and other light brush, you need to look at something with penetration, that doesn't mean huge size necessarily. .30-30 doesn't have good penetration because of its low velocity and the bullet shape. but last deer season I was hunting white tails with .243 Win because I was in a motorcycle accident and hadn't fully recovered. A good sized doe stepped out into the field at about 120 yards and I dropped her with one shot. the branch just a few feet in front of me was shaking, I looked closer and the 1/4 inch branch had a nice moon shape of about 1/8 inch in it. Oops, didn't think I would of hit it or I would of cut it, but still it didn't affect the small 100 gr 6mm bullet that much. now at other times I am sure that it might make a difference but you throw a baseball or football and it hits a small branch it is going to change the trajectory some what, there are to many factors, it's just best to take good shots and pick rounds with penetration if you are going to shoot through light brush on the off chance.

2 hours ago, 308lrnewb said:

Life is not perfect. As far as any comment goes about 'ruined game'.. I seldom eat deer ribs, the dogs however - sure enjoy a half mangled rack coming off the firepit.

And the thing you have to think about these chanced shots that could end up poor, they don't just harm the ribs. there is an entry wound and an exit wound, and sometimes the round changes trajectory inside the animal. Poor shots could mean you ruin a good portion of one of the front quarters or some of the backstrap.

 

basically it comes down to picking a gun based on what you are hunting, not 2 guns, not 1.5. If you are hunting deer, hunt deer; if you are hunting moose, hunt moose. as far as hunting goes, one round doesn't do it all at close ranges or long ranges. hate to say it, but what you want, seems to be unrealistic from a game harvesters point of view.

.270 Win will take white tails through elk and black bear, as will .30-06. but the case size is larger than a .308 case so would lead to increased cost in an AR-10.

honestly I think your best bet is .308 or 7mm-08 if you are looking for an AR-10 that will take the widest range of game.

[survivalshop]

  I'm all in for your build .go for it .

   Why are you comparing a rifle to a handgun , I hunt in Ohio with a Handgun for many years & there is no comparison between the two , even with my Scoped Anaconda , there are pounds of difference & the difficulty in using a handgun compared to a rifle or Slugun , is off the charts . I have been very successful with a Handgun because of experience over the years .

  I still use the Slugun & a 45-70 on different days for the fun of it  , but not only are you not permitted to carry both , but I wouldn't any way , why bother.

  Keep us informed on your progress & some of the cost, like the Barrel . The reloading should be straight forward enough , if you have a Chronograph , some results would be cool. The Hornady FTX is a great Bullet , I use them in my Sluggun , Hornady has a Sabo 12ga. with he 325 gr. bullet & it works just great on even large Deer . My longest shot has been 158 yards & the large Buck dropped like a stone .

Edited September 1, 2016 by survivalshop

[Magwa]

Remember Jack O'Conner, killed Everything! in North America with a 270 with 130 grain bullets, you can do the same with a 308 and 168's...... but hey it is about dreams right? go for it and post pics when you are done...

[planeflyer21]

16 minutes ago, Magwa said:

Remember Jack O'Conner, killed Everything! in North America with a 270 with 130 grain bullets, you can do the same with a 308 and 168's...... but hey it is about dreams right? go for it and post pics when you are done...

And Teddy Roosevelt took everything in Africa with a .30-06 (and his sons too).

[Tripledeuce]

Actually, O'Connor had a custom '06 that he always had with him.   And Roosevelt ,and son, both had 405 Winchesters that they used a lot.

    My wife has not shot her Raptor a lot.  We put it together, and then the pig hunt fell apart.  I'll have to push her to take it  out , again.  Been wanting to put the night vision scope on it!LL!!

  Respectfully

  Terry

Edited September 2, 2016 by Tripledeuce
add

[Magwa]

yes he had the 06 with him but he always used the 270 it was his favorite rifle and 130 grain spitzers were his favorite pill for the gun I was just at the museum again and looked at that gun man could it tell stories...

 

[308lrnewb]

Barrels are as low as $240+S&H. one thing to keep in mind, yes it does happen to use the .875 gasblock but... it is a .452 inch bore. Also, with trend the barrels are lighter than 308 barrels of equal length. Satern markets the 45raptor barrel in 10.5 and 12.5 lengths in addition to the ones listed by RSS. Costs are relatively low if you do the work yourself. Speak with Medesha in Meza, AZ. He will discuss magazine modifications and concerns. His method of altering the follower is pretty smart. One concern he mentioned is that the rounds struggle to double stack passed ~15 rounds when utilizing the 20round magazine. The reason being these are more straight cartridges, the magazine swells. On tight magazine wells, they can be problematic with overloading. Also stated that ASC are the magazines he recommends.

There is plenty of knowledge on this chambering.. you all may be impressed.

[unforgiven]

On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 4:05 PM, 98Z5V said:

That thing has the glide ratio of a brick.

 Glad your back brother.

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 9:55 AM, shepp said:

Thank you magwa, I was hoping that you would post. backed the points I was trying to say and then some.[ The best waiting for a clean, ethical shot. that is our biggest responsability as hunters!!]

That is our point in "hunter Ed."  Ones actions in the field are reflected on everyone. Even when handling firearms.

[Cowtown]

Many good points made above.  If hunting "whatever steps out no matter how big, mean or far away" take the 375 H&H bolt gun.  It has worked on everything on every continent for me.  (Yes, even red stag in New Zealand - it is a lightweight 375 H&H - good to hump in the mountains).  Everything ended up DRT.  Hunting North America, IMO all you really need is a 308AR that shoots and a 10 round mag or two of 180 grain pills, if large frame AR is your choice.

But, please do build the 45 Raptor and keep us apprised of your progress and results!  It is an interesting build and no further justification is necessary.  You can't have too many rifles!