Doodle Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Wondering what kind of performance people get or expect out of milsurp .308 ammo. I am relatively new to rifles (shotgun bird hunter here), but got the rifle bug from some buddies a couple years ago. Well, I'm finally getting around to some more range time. Have a DPMS Recon, old model (not GenII), that has a 16" barrel with a Redfield 3x9x42 in a Burris PEPR mount. Got the scope almost dialed in shooting several 5-shot groups at 100 yards off a bench with bags. There are about 200 rounds through the gun, first 100 rounds were with the MagPul sights that came on the gun, then I've moved the scope around a few times. The attached pic is one of my better groups yesterday out of several targets, some would have a flier out of the five shots (my overly caffeinated fault). Note that the squares are a little bigger than 1", I think they are 1 MOA. Ammo is Hirtenberger (Austria). Question: is this what I can expect as the best with this ammo? I'm pretty sure that I am the limiting factor still with respect to accuracy, but was wondering how much better it might get. I also have milsurp from Greece, Turkey, PMC, and PPU plastic battle packs. These are all 147 to 150 gr. Should I get some 'match' ammo to compare? Is it really that much better? Thanks for any insight and recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 I had a Battlepack of Hirtenberger, I think it was berdan primer and it all went bang. Also had a couple of battle packs of Turkish PPU which had a half dozen duds (non firing primers strikes). The DesertStorm battle packs from 1992 are pretty good, go bang and are accurate. If you can find that one get it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Looks about like my milsurp ammo targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Looks about average for NATO ball. I have had the best results from Radway Green and some FN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Match ammo really is that much better. It is consistent enough to eliminate ammo as the accuracy factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beantown Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) That target is five rounds of mil surp ammo at 100 yards? Out of a DPMS with a stock trigger, that's darn near brand new? By a guy who has little time behind said rifle? Are you shittin me? You're a damn good shot my friend! Now who had that Hirtenberger with free shipping. lol Edited April 5, 2017 by beantown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted April 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Matt.Cross said: Match ammo really is that much better. It is consistent enough to eliminate ammo as the accuracy factor. Matt, any prefs on match? Seems most match .308 is 168 gr or even 175 gr. I did find Norma USA Tac and Match Rifle Ammo in 150 gr FMJ-BT, which might be a more apples-to-apples comparison with the milsurp. I'm likely going to pick some up based on your suggestion. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted April 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, beantown said: That target is five rounds of mil surp ammo at 100 yards? Out of a DPMS with a stock trigger, that's darn near brand new? By a guy who has little time behind said rifle? Are you shittin me? You're a damn good shot my friend! Now who had that Hirtenberger with free shipping. lol Bean, that target was selected from a half dozen, lol. Others usually had a flyer several inches away from the rest. Was frustrating to get 3-4 shots grouping well then pull one, lol. Lucked out with the one target I posted. I'm going to have my one bud (who is responsible for my fairly new expensive hobby) give the rifle a turn once I get some match ammo. His experience and skill are quite a ways ahead of mine. One reason I posted this is I've seen some amazing groups in some other posts. Just trying to sort out expectations. Nice looking dog, btw! Edited April 5, 2017 by Doodle added comment on dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 22 minutes ago, Doodle said: Matt, any prefs on match? Seems most match .308 is 168 gr or even 175 gr. I did find Norma USA Tac and Match Rifle Ammo in 150 gr FMJ-BT, which might be a more apples-to-apples comparison with the milsurp. I'm likely going to pick some up based on your suggestion. Thanks. I don't know what your twist is, but if it's 1:10 it'll really like both 168 and 175. Heavier stabilizes better in a 1:10 twist, 1:11.25 is much more forgiving with mil-surp, which is usually 147 - 155. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 Doodle, welcome to the Forum. I am guessing your DPMS is a 1 in 10 barrel twist. That is optimised for 168 or 175 grain bullets. I woud buy a couple of boxes of each, forego the morning coffee, or at least keep it to one cup, and see what works best. Matt is giving you good advice. Good ammo does make a difference. A lot of the mil surp is destined for machine guns, where precision isn't that important. If you can find some Lake City M118LR, that is military sniper rifle ammo, and roughly equivalent to Federal 175 gr Gold Medal Match. Good stuff. Good groups are a combination of good equipment, good ammo, and most importantly, good consistent technique. If and when you start reloading, you can build a "ladder" where you fine tune a load to your particular rifles nuances. That is when really good accuracy begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 I have the exact same rifle , well it is much different now but the guts are the same , I also started with military surplus ammo and used it to break mine in and get some rounds through the gun then I went to 168 match and whoa! whole different world instead of 2 inch groups I started shooting 1 inch groups and one group my best so far that is 1 hole! BUT I am a hunter it is my number one priority so after my eye opening experience with 168 i started shooting Barnes 168TTSX solid copper bullets well I don't ever have to look for another brand 4 elk and 5 deer will attest to that..... you will love the 168 and so will your rifle.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted April 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 52 minutes ago, Magwa said: I have the exact same rifle , well it is much different now but the guts are the same , I also started with military surplus ammo and used it to break mine in and get some rounds through the gun then I went to 168 match and whoa! whole different world instead of 2 inch groups I started shooting 1 inch groups and one group my best so far that is 1 hole! BUT I am a hunter it is my number one priority so after my eye opening experience with 168 i started shooting Barnes 168TTSX solid copper bullets well I don't ever have to look for another brand 4 elk and 5 deer will attest to that..... you will love the 168 and so will your rifle.... Will definitely be getting some 168 match ammo based on Matt's comments and your comments. Its a little bit of a shock to see match ammo cost 3-4 times as much as milsurp, may have to piggyback on my buddy's reloading press using my accumulating pile of brass at some point! I rarely hunt large game, but got this rifle with that in mind. Have only used a shotgun and revolver to take a few deer here in southern MI. Northern lower and the upper peninsula are open to rifles, however. In response to Sisco, yes the barrel is 1 in 10 twist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted April 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Magwa said: I have the exact same rifle , well it is much different now but the guts are the same , I also started with military surplus ammo and used it to break mine in and get some rounds through the gun then I went to 168 match and whoa! whole different world instead of 2 inch groups I started shooting 1 inch groups and one group my best so far that is 1 hole! BUT I am a hunter it is my number one priority so after my eye opening experience with 168 i started shooting Barnes 168TTSX solid copper bullets well I don't ever have to look for another brand 4 elk and 5 deer will attest to that..... you will love the 168 and so will your rifle.... Let me add that your groups of 1 inch and 1 hole are what prompted my original questions. I've looked through the locked thread above ("Lets see some targets - Range Pictures") and there are 300+ yard groups better than the 100 yard target I posted above. Some amazing shooting, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Keep an eye on http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/ and sign up for their email list. They frequently have Federal Gold Medal Match in both 168 and 175 grain for $20 a box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted April 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Matt.Cross said: Keep an eye on http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/ and sign up for their email list. They frequently have Federal Gold Medal Match in both 168 and 175 grain for $20 a box. I did, they do, and its ordered! Free shipping, too. Thx. Edited April 7, 2017 by Doodle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, Doodle said: I did, they do, and its ordered! Free shipping, too. Thx. We want to hear a follow up report on how it shoots, and if it makes a difference. Good luck, and remember, only one cup of coffee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted April 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2017 On 4/7/2017 at 9:46 AM, Sisco said: We want to hear a follow up report on how it shoots, and if it makes a difference. Good luck, and remember, only one cup of coffee! Short follow-up, guys. Shot a few more targets last weekend with the Hirtenberger 150 gr FMJ and also tried some OTMRP 125 gr. The OTMRP appears to be "open tip match rear penetrating" and is apparently lighter than standard ball due to having a hollow nose and larger portion of copper (in place of lead) in the solid base. That's about all I really could find on it. Came in white boxes with black lettering and made it USA. Same targets as before - 100 yards and the squares are slightly larger than 1 inch and shot off a bench on bags. Each of the three targets shown below is the best of a series of four (12 total targets with 5 shots each). Based on Sisco's comment, begrudgingly limited the coffee, wasn't easy ;-). Was impressed with the OTMRP. Anyone else have any experience or insight with this ammo? I may try the OTMRP at 200 yards next time. I am also now in possession of some Federal match 168 gr FMJBT, but likely will not get to the range this weekend. Thanks and Happy Easter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted April 14, 2017 Report Share Posted April 14, 2017 That OTMRP sounds just like the bullet in MK319. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted April 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2017 32 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: That OTMRP sounds just like the bullet in MK319. jtallen83, you are correct. I just checked my boxes and they are the same as this pic I found online, which indicates the same specs as "MK319 MOD 0". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted April 14, 2017 Report Share Posted April 14, 2017 Where do you get that stuff ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted April 14, 2017 Report Share Posted April 14, 2017 That OTMRP is very good stuff. I hoard mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted April 14, 2017 Report Share Posted April 14, 2017 Nice shooting! Now go enjoy your coffee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted April 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 6 hours ago, survivalshop said: Where do you get that stuff ? If I recall correctly, I got it a couple years ago when I purchased the rifle. Just have not shot any till now. I think I got it from Cheaper than Dirt, as that is where I found the pic posted above. I also have milsurp from PPU that I have not opened yet. I have tried the Greek and Turkish FMJ ball. Seems the Greek is on par with the Hirtenberger for me, the Turkish not as good, but I have not shot a lot of either. The OTMRP is interesting as it has annular recesses near the base of the bullet, just before the case. They can be seen in the pic above. It must be going pretty fast at only 125 gr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted April 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 5 hours ago, Sisco said: Nice shooting! Now go enjoy your coffee! I did! Definitely a java addict here. Love a noseful of a good smokey dark roast. Mmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted April 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 5 hours ago, Sisco said: Nice shooting! Now go enjoy your coffee! I'm sure most have seen this, but I just love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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