Exhail Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Disclaimer: I am not a military dude, nor an expert. In my research, I have come to the conclusion that iron sights really are the best. Why? Every Marine must qualify at 500 yards with iron sights, (Marines add your opinion). Iron sights pride an open filed of view, unlike optics. They are good for a long ways. Red dots are almost the cost of another rifle. If you want to shoot past 500 yards, I"ll definitely need an optic. But inside 500 yards, irons are fine for me. Just my opinion, and offering this for your consideration before you spend $$$ on a red dot. I prefer iron sights. They are superior to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunuckgaucho Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Views down the sights of historical military firearms https://imgur.com/a/ZM7IX?gallery#46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Very fukin cool brother 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 I'm retired Military and was a small arms instructor for my 19 of my 20 years of service. Difficult to beat the peep sight set-up on modern military platforms. They work because your eye will automatically center the post in the center of the aperture almost like it's instinctive. The size of the hole and how fine the post is will have some effect on accuracy, especially at longer distances. Something few folks factor into the deal is the position of the sun when sighting in (or other light sources in position to the weapon). Unless it's directly overhead the sun can light up one side of the post a tad more than the other and make rounds go slightly left or right depending on how your eye picks up on that deal. So it is always best to sight in on a day when it's cloudy or directly overhead putting equal amounts of light on both sides of the post. The downside of peep and other types of Military sights is that you are having to line up two things, so they are not as quick for acquisition like Red Dots and holographic sights. They are also not as good in low light conditions. Even with all that said if you ever doubt the capabilities of the peep sight attend a 1000 yard match one day and watch shooters punch the ten ring with deadly consistency with those "primitive" sight set-ups........Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 1k wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRiverII Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 I had, and still have, to a lesser degree though, a hard time picturing folks qualifying at a thousand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belt Fed Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Cunuckgaucho said: Views down the sights of historical military firearms https://imgur.com/a/ZM7IX?gallery#46 That's neat as all get out. thanks for that link..iron sights are awesome and I agree the best, but when the eyes get old and tired and don't focus like they used to a scope is best for longer shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 + 2 or 3 on that deal. I can't hear chit, can't see chit, and don't much give a chit these days, and I'm only 60!.....LOL......Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRiverII Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 54 minutes ago, Belt Fed said: That's neat as all get out. thanks for that link..iron sights are awesome and I agree the best, but when the eyes get old and tired and don't focus like they used to a scope is best for longer shooting. Oh yeah, I once thought using a scope was almost cheating. No longer do I think that way, my eyes are no longer as trustworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 In the late 1980's I shot a 19-10/4X on the slow fire course at a Military only match. I was around 30 years old at that time. As good as my score was I ended up 6th overall. I was using an US Navy Armory built M-14 custom Match Rifle converted to semi-auto. That weapon would literally put every single round in the SAME hole with just about any batch of Lake City Match 308 I put thru it. It was one of the few weapons I've owned over the years that truly shot better than the jerk-behind-the-trigger!.......LOL.......Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inet Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 M1 Garand/M14 sights get my vote. On the AR some variation of GI spec that has been offered. Not fond of carting around glass on a rifle but as others have pointed out, time passing has a way of making iron sights become how one used to look at things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exhail Posted July 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Inet said: M1 Garand/M14 sights get my vote. On the AR some variation of GI spec that has been offered. Not fond of carting around glass on a rifle but as others have pointed out, time passing has a way of making iron sights become how one used to look at things. The M14 sight picture is by far my favorite. It just feels so natural. I do own a scope, but I was considering on what my AR10 would have on a regular basis. I've been looking around at different options. I just cant find anything better than the old school irons. Lightens my my rifle too 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inet Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 If you have a flat top AR10 give the Matech a try on the rear. I picked a new one up for 40.00 shipped on Ebay. Fully adjustable , metal construction, GI issue. Works a treat with the standard gas block sight or a fixed variation off the hand guard dovetail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exhail Posted July 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Cliff R said: I'm retired Military and was a small arms instructor for my 19 of my 20 years of service. Difficult to beat the peep sight set-up on modern military platforms. They work because your eye will automatically center the post in the center of the aperture almost like it's instinctive. The size of the hole and how fine the post is will have some effect on accuracy, especially at longer distances. Something few folks factor into the deal is the position of the sun when sighting in (or other light sources in position to the weapon). Unless it's directly overhead the sun can light up one side of the post a tad more than the other and make rounds go slightly left or right depending on how your eye picks up on that deal. So it is always best to sight in on a day when it's cloudy or directly overhead putting equal amounts of light on both sides of the post. The downside of peep and other types of Military sights is that you are having to line up two things, so they are not as quick for acquisition like Red Dots and holographic sights. They are also not as good in low light conditions. Even with all that said if you ever doubt the capabilities of the peep sight attend a 1000 yard match one day and watch shooters punch the ten ring with deadly consistency with those "primitive" sight set-ups........Cliff You make a good argument for both. It's so easy to waste money on gun stuff that I just really don't need. The iron sights feel the most comfortable to me. Which is great considering weight and performance. Choosing Iron sights is such a low drag system inside 500 yards. I'm going to be shopping today for some good fixed irons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exhail Posted July 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Inet said: If you have a flat top AR10 give the Matech a try on the rear. I picked a new one up for 40.00 shipped on Ebay. Fully adjustable , metal construction, GI issue. Works a treat with the standard gas block sight or a fixed variation off the hand guard dovetail. I like those =) very cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inet Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Folds flat and tucks in nicely if you decide/ have the option for optics later on down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmackc Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Exhail said: Disclaimer: I am not a military dude, nor an expert. In my research, I have come to the conclusion that iron sights really are the best. Why? Every Marine must qualify at 500 yards with iron sights, (Marines add your opinion). Iron sights pride an open filed of view, unlike optics. They are good for a long ways. Red dots are almost the cost of another rifle. If you want to shoot past 500 yards, I"ll definitely need an optic. But inside 500 yards, irons are fine for me. Just my opinion, and offering this for your consideration before you spend $$$ on a red dot. I prefer iron sights. They are superior to me. These do look like adequate Iron Back Up Sights..... Yes, All of us Marines did and do qualify out to 500 Yds. with Iron sights, most do so in Boot camp at the age of 17 to a few as old as I was (22 years old I turned 23 during my 2nd week in MCRD, after college, back in 1960) after 30 or so years later many have eyesight not quite so good. I still can see thru iron sights out to about 300 Yards on a nice sunny day. However, I may not be the everyday normal old guy, My problem isn't just vision but mainly mobility. Optics are the chosen sights for Marine, Army, Navy and Air Force Sniper teams. Just thought I should even up the subject at hand....Shooting with a rifle. **** BTW I forgot to say Marines at the Boot Camp practice, Pre-Quals and Qual day have a crew in the butts Marking and scoring their targets so that the shooters can see where they hit the targets with their neck-id eyes at the 200, 300 and 500 yard lines. Edited July 15, 2019 by mrmackc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 6 hours ago, Cliff R said: + 2 or 3 on that deal. I can't hear chit, can't see chit, and don't much give a chit these days, and I'm only 60!.....LOL......Cliff It gets worse as you get older brother 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belt Fed Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 40 minutes ago, unforgiven said: It gets worse as you get older brother 👍 I know that's right, and you also get a bigger scope as it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Cunuckgaucho said: Views down the sights of historical military firearms https://imgur.com/a/ZM7IX?gallery#46 That was very cool - I love the adjustable sights on the M1 Carbine - they rock! For those of you running the MaTech rear sites, get one of these for them -theBAD-BSM: https://tnvc.com/shop/b-a-d-bracket-screw-for-matech-buis/ They might be hard to find now - I don't know if BAD still makes them. Couldn't find it on their website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewtac Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 Marines can qual with ACOGs now, been that way for years. I don't think the option exist for initial qual, not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 When I was on active duty the Basic Rifle Marksmanship Course was always fired with iron sights. In the early 1980's we still had some Viet Nam era M-16 A-1's around with the slower twist barrels and harder to adjust sights and they did fine for beginners. Can't remember anyone I couldn't get qualified. We also had 1000" targets when longer ranges weren't available.......Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmackc Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 11 hours ago, mrmackc said: These do look like adequate Iron Back Up Sights..... Yes, All of us Marines did and do qualify out to 500 Yds. with Iron sights, most do so in Boot camp at the age of 17 to a few as old as I was (22 years old I turned 23 during my 2nd week in MCRD, after college, back in 1960) after 30 or so years later many have eyesight not quite so good. I still can see thru iron sights out to about 300 Yards on a nice sunny day. However, I may not be the everyday normal old guy, My problem isn't just vision but mainly mobility. Optics are the chosen sights for Marine, Army, Navy and Air Force Sniper teams. Just thought I should even up the subject at hand....Shooting with a rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 I'll take an Aimpoint over iron sights any day of the week and twice on Tuesday. They can be had for around $275 if you shop around for a used one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted July 16, 2019 Report Share Posted July 16, 2019 ^^^ I'm with Merle on that. Once I went red dot, irons were backups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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