Lonewolf McQuade Posted March 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 11:41 PM, 98Z5V said: ^^^ Those Arken 6~24 scopes (the SH ones in the model number) are pretty damn nice. I've shot the MOA one on someone else's gun, and I was impressed with it. Well, I mean, I felt dirty shooting an MOA scope, but the quality was there, and it's a damn good piece of kit. @Matt.Cross 😂 Only reason I bought Mil was to avoid the abuse, ridicule & shunning I would have received HERE had I purchased moa...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 11:52 PM, Lonewolf McQuade said: 😂 Only reason I bought Mil was to avoid the abuse, ridicule & shunning I would have received HERE had I purchased moa...... @Rsquaredand I are the resident "gear snobs" (because Nightforce optics and other expensive tastes) and we both run MOA optics. You'd be loved and accepted with open arms on the MOA side.... It's those knuckle dragging sister shagging mouth breathing mountains of cumulative inbreeding damage over there on the MIL side that will give you grief. @98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolf McQuade Posted March 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 12:12 AM, Matt.Cross said: @Rsquaredand I are the resident "gear snobs" (because Nightforce optics and other expensive tastes) and we both run MOA optics. You'd be loved and accepted with open arms on the MOA side.... It's those knuckle dragging sister shagging mouth breathing mountains of cumulative inbreeding damage over there on the MIL side that will give you grief. @98Z5V 😂 My other dozen are all moa. Then there's that Trijicon, Mil-dot but with moa adjustments.....🤓 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 15 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said: @Rsquaredand I are the resident "gear snobs" (because Nightforce optics and other expensive tastes) and we both run MOA optics. You'd be loved and accepted with open arms on the MOA side.... It's those knuckle dragging sister shagging mouth breathing mountains of cumulative inbreeding damage over there on the MIL side that will give you grief. @98Z5V Nightforce makes Mil scopes - that's the ones that the military snipers choose. They leave the MOA to the civilians, though. The uneducated civilians. Oh, and the gamers. I'm just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, Lonewolf McQuade said: Then there's that Trijicon, Mil-dot but with moa adjustments.....🤓 That's exactly the bastardization that occured, and the military forced the scope makers to stick with a standard. One or the other. Mils won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 12:20 AM, Lonewolf McQuade said: 😂 My other dozen are all moa. Then there's that Trijicon, Mil-dot but with moa adjustments.....🤓 I'm versed in both. As long as I know which one I'm using, I genuinely don't have a preference. I started with MOA and stuck with it for consistency's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said: It's those knuckle dragging sister shagging mouth breathing mountains of cumulative inbreeding damage ... those are the ones that can't do math. Have to think in "inches" all the time, when they're "shagging that sister"... Can't comprehend a real scope adjustment, that matches degrees in a circle... I mean, shiit, how hard is it - there's 360 degrees in a circle... Artillery doesn't use MOA - it's not accurate enough... Edited March 9, 2022 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolf McQuade Posted March 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 I never really learned either one. Been reading, watching video, practicing & attempting to learn & understand both. Math was never my strongest subject but with use & practice , not too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 12:29 AM, 98Z5V said: They leave the MOA to the civilians, though. The uneducated civilians. MIL math is mostly multiples and divisions of 10 or powers of 10. It's the MOA shooters that are rocking the real math prowess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said: MIL math is mostly multiples and divisions of 10 or powers of 10. It's the MOA shooters that are rocking the real math prowess. Because they have to. Because nothing really divides by 1.047-anything... "Honey, it's really not an INCH..." They just never get it quite right, tough, thinking "it's only an inch..." Edited March 9, 2022 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, Lonewolf McQuade said: I never really learned either one. Been reading, watching video, practicing & attempting to learn & understand both. Math was never my strongest subject but with use & practice , not too bad. Come out here and shoot with me - I'll make it all clear, for both systems. The only cost you incur is getting here. The training is free-fiddy-free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 12:47 AM, 98Z5V said: Because they have to. Because nothing really divides by 1.047-anything... "Honey, it's really not an INCH..." There's no shame in having to have math skills. Having to remove your boots and gloves to do your MIL math, now that's just embarrassing.... That's when the MOA sniper is gonna take you out, when you're counting fingers and toes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 Just now, Matt.Cross said: There's no shame in having to have math skills. Having to remove your boots and gloves to do your MIL math, now that's just embarrassing.... That's when the MOA sniper is gonna take you out, when you're counting fingers and toes! I never read about any of that, with any military snipers?... Oh yeah - that's your fallacy... that you tell yourself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 I know, I know.... "But Matt, math is HARD!" Of course it is, everything that is worthwhile in life is difficult somehow. Buck up and deal with it snowflake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 If a man fills a mil, in my scope, he's 500 yards away. Range estimation. If he fills half a mil in my scope, he's 1k yards away. I got this... What's that for MOA, and range estimation? 500 yards is how many MOA away? I can do that math for you right now, and tell you - it's not a normal measurement, brother... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 3.4377... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 Call it 3.5, for 500 yards. Just to get it - 500 is easy. Call it 7 for 1k. How far will you be off, rounding up?... Asking for a friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolf McQuade Posted March 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 12:51 AM, 98Z5V said: Come out here and shoot with me - I'll make it all clear, for both systems. The only cost you incur is getting here. The training is free-fiddy-free. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 Math sucks, when you're shooting, and you have no time for calculations-in-your-head. There's no reason for it. When time matters. Why complicate it with MOA? It's much faster with Mils, and less thinking. If you're shooting under stress, eliminate as much thinking as necessary, and take the shot. That's why the military doesn't use MOA, at all... I'm just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 12:59 AM, 98Z5V said: Call it 3.5, for 500 yards. Just to get it - 500 is easy. Call it 7 for 1k. How far will you be off, rounding up?... Asking for a friend... Depends on how precisely you round. Just as an example, I don't calculate off of 1.047", I use inches out to 500 and that's a reasonable margin of error and calculates quickly. Past 500 i use 1.05 which is an error of .003" per 100 yards. Max error at 1k is 3". That's less than .3 MOA error, definitely smaller than what I'm capable of controlling as a shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 What's your max error at a mile? It's a miss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 1:10 AM, 98Z5V said: What's your max error at a mile? It's a miss... I don't have anything that'll reach a mile, I'll be spotting for whoever can at that point. 5.3" just to answer your question, and I'll give you $100,000 dollars if you can control 5.3" of difference at a mile under ANY circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said: Past 500 i use 1.05 which is an error of .003" per 100 yards. Max error at 1k is 3". You do this in your head? Really, brother? I look at my scope, and it tells me what to do. The only calculation I need to do it in multiples of mil = 500 yards. It runs really smooth, in practical application, and it's pretty damn accurate, with 1/10th mil gradients in the scope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said: I don't have anything that'll reach a mile, I'll be spotting for whoever can at that point. 5.3" just to answer your question, and I'll give you $100,000 dollars if you can control 5.3" of difference at a mile under ANY circumstances. Cold-bored the mile at the last fall shoot. I know my gun is 16.9 mils of dial at a mile. Dialed it. Hit the 18" wide target 3" off the direct center of the target, to the left, first shot. Did it work? Was it within the 5.3" range that you stated? Yeah, It was... You were there - you saw it through the spotting scope... I think I controlled it. I'll accept payment once you get here - because I think you forgot about that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 1:17 AM, 98Z5V said: You do this in your head? Really, brother? I look at my scope, and it tells me what to do. The only calculation I need to do it in multiples of mil = 500 yards. It runs really smooth, in practical application, and it's pretty damn accurate, with 1/10th mil gradients in the scope. I do the same, I look at my scope and make a correction without thinking about it. If I'm spotting for someone, that's a different scenario, you gotta be able to give them MILS. You for instance, I could give you either because you can convert it too and I know that. After doing it a while it's just second nature... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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