Winter Survival

[Sisco]

I am rekindling an interest in this, more to educate my son, who like me in my youth, is getting into winter camping in his 20's. In my youth I would head to the BWCA, or Yellowstone for the subzero challenges. I am past that now, but still like to get out on days like today, 8F with a 40mph wind. =-12F windchill. Recently I picked up a Inuit styke anorak, but in canvas from a source in Canada. Just got back from wearing it on  my 3 mile dog walk. Coupled with a seriously heavy wool jacket underneath, gotta say it puts my Eddie Bauer down filled superior polar parka to shame. More comfortable, lighter, and just as warm if not warmer. It also beats my Stryker ice fishing coat hands down, but that has the advantage of floating if you go through the ice, which does happen. So keeping it for ice fishing. For all the new fabrics, I think wool is still my go to in winter. In fact  it seems all the space age synthetics are best when mixed with traditional fibers for cold weather use. I have pretty much relegated down to the back of the closet except for short term use in non extreme situations like a trip to the grocery store. I do use Under Armor’s synthetic base layer because I sweat a lot, even in winter, then layer Merino wool sweater and tight woven merino wool pants over that, followed by a heavy wool jacket and the Anorak if needed for the wind. The Anorak is needed as wool for all it’s pluses just doesn’t cut the-wind at all.That gets me down to minus 25F, maybe more. Any one else have winter gear tid bits, post em!

Edited December 6, 2021 by Sisco

[98Z5V]

I'm in to this, brother.  Did it for a long time in a Cold Weather SF Battalion.   Winter Warfare exercises Jan~March, in some pretty crazy places.  My best advice on clothing is C-O-L-D.   Remember this acronym.  Clean, Overheating, Loose, Dry.  Keep your clothing Clean, (avoid) Overheating, Loose and in layers, and Dry.

That's the 4 things that are wrapped up into the Number One Priority... 

[Belt Fed]

If it ever got to -25 here, this whole state would die off. the coldest i ever seen it was -6 and that was cold for here. we usually stay above freezing most of the winter. but this is Arkansas and anything is possible in the weather department. the worst Tornado outbreak i remember was Christmas eve several years back.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Belt Fed

[Sisco]

6 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

I'm in to this, brother.  Did it for a long time in a Cold Weather SF Battalion.   Winter Warfare exercises Jan~March, in some pretty crazy places.  My best advice on clothing is C-O-L-D.   Remember this acronym.  Clean, Overheating, Loose, Dry.  Keep your clothing Clean, (avoid) Overheating, Loose and in layers, and Dry.

That's the 4 things that are wrapped up into the Number One Priority... 

sound advice. The only thing you want tight is your base layer if it is moisture wicking, otherwise that should be a little loose too. All the dead air spaces in loose clothing provide warmth as well. Avoid cotton as it retains moisture. Move half speed to avoid sweating. Layers you can shed to regulate temperature are better then one big heavy coat. That is the weakness of big heavy down coats. Leave those for when you are in interior Alaska or Baffin Island. I wear mine maybe twice a year.

[Sisco]

6 hours ago, Belt Fed said:

If it ever got to -25 here, this whole state would die off. the coldest i ever seen it was -6 and that was cold for here. we usually stay above freezing most of the winter. but this is Arkansas and anything is possible in the weather department. the worst Tornado outbreak i remember was Christmas eve several years back.

Winter survival in a wet climate with temperatures between 25 and 40 can be just as tough. Nothing more dangerous then wet cold.

[shaffe48]

The benefit of synthetic puffy or down for that matter is they pack down nice when you don't have them on.

 

I always used to backpack when it gets down to the 20s and 30s in the spring because it's good training for hunting.  Much colder I don't care for it but I've hot tented with my buddy heater and a 20 degree bag just fine.

[Sisco]

4 hours ago, shaffe48 said:

The benefit of synthetic puffy or down for that matter is they pack down nice when you don't have them on.

 

I always used to backpack when it gets down to the 20s and 30s in the spring because it's good training for hunting.  Much colder I don't care for it but I've hot tented with my buddy heater and a 20 degree bag just fine.

Yeah down for backpacking trips make sense as long as you can keep it dry. Super light, warm, and comfortable. I have used it for that quite a bit. Once you add the threat of getting wet, though it becomes less attractive. Down loses about 85% of it’s insulating value when wet. Hollofill as a representative Synthetic loses about 45%. Wool loses 25%, and will air dry two or three times faster then the other two. Caribou fur essentially loses none as the hairs are hollow and water shedding. That’s why traditional Inuit Anoraks are made of caribou hide tanned and turned inside out. As I don’t have a supply of caribou to make clothing with, for an outer shell I use a Canvas Anorak made of 10oz duck, with as many layers of wool underneath as I need, and a bottom layer of moisture wicking synthetic or silk. Pants wool, or if moisture or water is a problem I replace those with waterproof, insulated bib overalls that have built in flotation. I replace the Anorak in wet conditions with an outer gore-tex shell which is not as breathable as the anorak, but still lets a fair proportion of water vapor generated by perspiration to escape. One thing, in ultra cold conditions, that coyote or lynx fur ruff on the Anorak is amazing in how it protects your face and sets up a warm area around your head when the hood is up.

[jtallen83]

Made a good portion of my income being outside below freezing, countless recreational hours at below zero, love the new fabrics for those lightweight base layers and wind covers. I don't really have one coat or pants that are heavily insulated, just lots of variety for layers in differing conditions. Feet, again those modern moisture wicking materials are a must for the base, then I go with good old wool socks and a pair of Sorel's from the 90's with felt wool liners, replaced a couple times and needing a new set now but the boots are still solid. I spent  300 and something on the best carbon fiber toe/insulated boot Redwing could sell me, Gore-Tex and Thinsulate and other fancy terms, didn't come close to those Sorel's but having warm feet on the job isn't safe. Those military Mickey Mouse boots did great until the moisture caught up, never could get that solved beyond continuous sock rotation. Same things with hands, those military mittens I was issued in 83 are great, most two layer mittens are the best option when warmth alone is what matters. Actual working gloves have always been like socks, keep rotating into dry and no problem, wool lined leather was always my answer. When I didn't need the durable surface on the glove I got a pair of Seirus gloves that blew me away, did a day outside in the rain just above freezing, outside they were soaking wet dripping, inside my hands were warm and dry, expensive but the real deal.

      God I love the cold!

[Sisco]

11 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

Made a good portion of my income being outside below freezing, countless recreational hours at below zero, love the new fabrics for those lightweight base layers and wind covers. I don't really have one coat or pants that are heavily insulated, just lots of variety for layers in differing conditions. Feet, again those modern moisture wicking materials are a must for the base, then I go with good old wool socks and a pair of Sorel's from the 90's with felt wool liners, replaced a couple times and needing a new set now but the boots are still solid. I spent  300 and something on the best carbon fiber toe/insulated boot Redwing could sell me, Gore-Tex and Thinsulate and other fancy terms, didn't come close to those Sorel's but having warm feet on the job isn't safe. Those military Mickey Mouse boots did great until the moisture caught up, never could get that solved beyond continuous sock rotation. Same things with hands, those military mittens I was issued in 83 are great, most two layer mittens are the best option when warmth alone is what matters. Actual working gloves have always been like socks, keep rotating into dry and no problem, wool lined leather was always my answer. When I didn't need the durable surface on the glove I got a pair of Seirus gloves that blew me away, did a day outside in the rain just above freezing, outside they were soaking wet dripping, inside my hands were warm and dry, expensive but the real deal.

      God I love the cold!

Good advice. I like it too. Didn’t realize how much until I spent two winters in Florida. Love the old Sorels when they were Canadian made and owned. Still wear a pair. I haven’t tried them though since Columbia bought them 20 years ago. Kamik and Baffin out of Canada both make good products as well. Sock and glove or liner rotation is a great point. Trench foot was the #1 non combat reason US Europe forces in WW2 were medically inactive. Same in Korea. Synthetics have their place in the mix, no doubt. Just like firearms and boats, cold weather gear is a series of compromises to best fit your needs.

[Cunuckgaucho]

I find the worst is rain or wet snow at or just above freezing. So easy to get to warm and begin sweating working but also to keep the rain out. Fortunately  I have a corner in my 'office' to hang/dry several changes of rain  gear to change throughout the day.

Baffin are  great!

For me dry head, hands and feet goes along way to feeling warm even if the rest of me is wet.

[shaffe48]

On 12/7/2021 at 7:58 PM, Sisco said:

Yeah down for backpacking trips make sense as long as you can keep it dry. Super light, warm, and comfortable. I have used it for that quite a bit. Once you add the threat of getting wet, though it becomes less attractive. Down loses about 85% of it’s insulating value when wet. Hollofill as a representative Synthetic loses about 45%. Wool loses 25%, and will air dry two or three times faster then the other two. Caribou fur essentially loses none as the hairs are hollow and water shedding. That’s why traditional Inuit Anoraks are made of caribou hide tanned and turned inside out. As I don’t have a supply of caribou to make clothing with, for an outer shell I use a Canvas Anorak made of 10oz duck, with as many layers of wool underneath as I need, and a bottom layer of moisture wicking synthetic or silk. Pants wool, or if moisture or water is a problem I replace those with waterproof, insulated bib overalls that have built in flotation. I replace the Anorak in wet conditions with an outer gore-tex shell which is not as breathable as the anorak, but still lets a fair proportion of water vapor generated by perspiration to escape. One thing, in ultra cold conditions, that coyote or lynx fur ruff on the Anorak is amazing in how it protects your face and sets up a warm area around your head when the hood is up.

Only my bag is down.  I have two puffy jackets and a vest for layers.  I try to reduce how often I use them due to not wear out expensive garments when packability isn't needed.

 

I've used wool sweaters before I buy from the thrift but invariably I accidentally wash it and turn it to child size.

[Sisco]

33 minutes ago, shaffe48 said:

 

I've used wool sweaters before I buy from the thrift but invariably I accidentally wash it and turn it to child size.

Been there, done that!

[98Z5V]

5 hours ago, Sisco said:

Been there, done that!

Yeah, but...   If you washed one of yours, and shrunk it all up - it would still fit most of us here...  

[Sisco]

1 hour ago, 98Z5V said:

Yeah, but...   If you washed one of yours, and shrunk it all up - it would still fit most of us here...  

yeah XXXL Tall is still pretty big shrunk up.

[BrianK]

I'm a huge believer in fleece. I would use wool years ago, until I was hunting in the rain in fleece. It got soaked. But in a lull in the rain I took it off and shook it out and it was insulating me again. Today in the same conditions I would have an outer gore-tex shell. But if the wind is blowing that outer shell is mandatory for fleece. 

I have a Refrigiwear garment that I used for ice fishing. One day it was really cold with a stiff breeze blowing and the gent I was fishing with commented when I laid down in the snow to cool off. I have no idea if Refrigiwear is still made. But it's not made for hiking. Think of it as a form fitting sleeping bag with legs.

[ARTrooper]

Al I could use the same training. Lived in wisconsin my whole life besides the military and I suck at prepping for cold weather. I sweat like crazy even in the coldest weather, especially my feet and hands, doesn’t matter how little insulation i have. And also I am a cheap bastard, not wanting to spend money on new or high quality clothing.

 

I do plan on solving any cold weather problems after retirement by going tropical. Lol

[unforgiven]

On 12/10/2021 at 5:43 PM, ARTrooper said:

Al I could use the same training. Lived in wisconsin my whole life besides the military and I suck at prepping for cold weather. I sweat like crazy even in the coldest weather, especially my feet and hands, doesn’t matter how little insulation i have. And also I am a cheap bastard, not wanting to spend money on new or high quality clothing.

 

I do plan on solving any cold weather problems after retirement by going tropical. Lol

Janesville 

[unforgiven]

Between the Steel mill and Sheet metal worker in Chicago I was right off the southwest corner of lake Michigan and the wind rolls right through. Dry feet good boots and layers used cotton till polypropylene long underwear came out. Used different weights but my Arctic carhartts bibs and jacket were the key. Once I was out in the cold I stayed out I'll go by a heater not close enough to get warm. I'd have water with me and it would be freezing up. Hot soup in thermos was room temp by coffee time 9a ish. I had a backpack with extra gloves ,hot packs fleece hardhat liner was the cats meow. At some point the gloves have to come off to handle hardware. I used scuba gloves in the end but they don't last. Then the worst part is trying to stay awake behind the wheel of a warm car. Good times. $hitty jobs cold,hot,dirty,loud, etc brings out the needy and the greedy. No sane person would come out.

[unforgiven]

[Sisco]

2 hours ago, unforgiven said:

Yeah brother, that carhartt stuff is good. I met a guy who did contract labor at the South Pole Antarctica station, and they were issued insulated Carhartt coveralls for outside use.

[Sisco]

On 12/10/2021 at 5:43 PM, ARTrooper said:

Al I could use the same training. Lived in wisconsin my whole life besides the military and I suck at prepping for cold weather. I sweat like crazy even in the coldest weather, especially my feet and hands, doesn’t matter how little insulation i have. And also I am a cheap bastard, not wanting to spend money on new or high quality clothing.

 

I do plan on solving any cold weather problems after retirement by going tropical. Lol

Get that sailboat training brother!

[ARTrooper]

1 hour ago, Sisco said:

Get that sailboat training brother!

Oh we still plan on it. Might even shave off 5 years and retire earlier than planned if the world keeps going like it is.

[Cunuckgaucho]

6 hours ago, unforgiven said:

Between the Steel mill and Sheet metal worker in Chicago I was right off the southwest corner of lake Michigan and the wind rolls right through. Dry feet good boots and layers used cotton till polypropylene long underwear came out. Used different weights but my Arctic carhartts bibs and jacket were the key. Once I was out in the cold I stayed out I'll go by a heater not close enough to get warm. I'd have water with me and it would be freezing up. Hot soup in thermos was room temp by coffee time 9a ish. I had a backpack with extra gloves ,hot packs fleece hardhat liner was the cats meow. At some point the gloves have to come off to handle hardware. I used scuba gloves in the end but they don't last. Then the worst part is trying to stay awake behind the wheel of a warm car. Good times. $hitty jobs cold,hot,dirty,loud, etc brings out the needy and the greedy. No sane person would come out.

I used to wear Carhartt pants but stopped 'cause the quality dropped but the price didn't, can't speak to the Artic bibs.

I'm the same in if working in the cold stay in the cold. Crew here has the lunch room temp cranked and I don't think the back and forth is good. I have my own 'office' and keep it warm enough to not freeze and a temp that only requires remove outer layer.

[unforgiven]

That was the brown duck style 30 yrs ago was made here the rest of the line was import. Now I think it's all import. Winter roof installs sucked because of the snow and ice. Rubber/vinyl roofs were the slickest. 

[Sisco]

1 hour ago, Cunuckgaucho said:

I used to wear Carhartt pants but stopped 'cause the quality dropped but the price didn't, can't speak to the Artic bibs.

I'm the same in if working in the cold stay in the cold. Crew here has the lunch room temp cranked and I don't think the back and forth is good. I have my own 'office' and keep it warm enough to not freeze and a temp that only requires remove outer layer.

I really like Gostwear in Canada, also Big Bill out of Canada. Got BB Merino wool pants as well as one of their Merino wool bow hunting jackets. Really good quality for a decent price. Gostwear has some of the best outdoor construction gear I have seen.