Talking to police

[MaDuce]

Hay folks. Thought I'd share this with you.

 

 Despite being a law abiding citizen, having friends and family in law enforcement and as much detourmination to put slime away as anyone, I have a policy of never talking to police during any investigation unless I have something specific and valuable to offer.

 

 Although MOST of the police I know seam to agree with me on this policy when I explain my reasons, others have often given me hell over it. You know, the typical, "if you're doing nothing wrong, then why not?" guilt trip. Apparently people seam to miss the fact that the 5th ammendment wasn't put there to protect criminals and that it IS there for a reason.

 

 Anyway, a while back, one of the very same people who once (or should I say 3 or 4 times) gave me that same protest came and shared this video with me, which does a great job of explaining why I don't and why it's a bad idea in general.

 

This is a 2 part lecture, first by a law professor and then by a former police detective. It's directed towards criminal defense attourneys and law abiding citizens.

 

[Dane Armory]

No good deed goes unpunished !

[planeflyer21]

I recommend to all my students to watch this video.

 

Some have reported watching it…and they are amazed.

[sketch]

No good deed goes unpunished !

Lets be smart and don't break the law there for we have nothing to hide!! I'm driven by integrity and so should the law but not a lawyer they look for loop holes and they exist because people are pc but when they are scrutinized by the rules they plead the 5th. there stated don't say nothin you don't want to get called on in court!! Report and help Leo as much as they help you! And they pay tax like you and me!

Edited December 29, 2013 by sketch

[Dane Armory]

Lets be smart and don't break the law there for we have nothing to hide!! I'm driven by integrity and so should the law but not a lawyer they look for loop holes and they exist because people are pc but when they are scrutinized by the rules they plead the 5th. there stated don't say nothin you don't want to get called on in court!! Report and help Leo as much as they help you! And they pay tax like you and me!

And you know ALL the laws ??

Hate to be misquoted... Opps must have lied... Guilty !

A lot of police departments have a policy of : arresting one party to cool off a situation. Let's say you are arrested and you give a statement. It can and will be used against you. Whatever is writen on that note pad will be transfer to a report the next day. Memory may have changed , facts ommitted. Your words have just been used against you. It is now in print and a bias DA trying to make a name for himself sees an easy case just ruined your life.

Do you have a come back for that !

[planeflyer21]

I haven't met a person that couldn't be prosecuted for a felony in some jurisdiction.  Don't think so?

 

Have you had sex out of marriage?  Sex in public?  Driven only a couple of blocks to your house from the bar?

 

Hell, they're prosecuting people who took pictures of their OWN naked baby laying on their stomach for child porn.

 

The cop's job is to get you to talk.  If they're involved in a shooting on duty, guess what they don't do…talk to other cops.  Most department's policies nationwide insist cops involved in a shooting do NOT speak until a few days have passed and a union rep (lawyer) is present.

 

Why should you be treated differently?

[sketch]

No?

[blue109]

Never say anything.....until you have a lawyer. Every class I've ever taken involving firearms hammered on this. If you end up taking a ride, so be it. that badge is not your buddy, and the dirtbags sitting across from you in court don't give a crap about right or wrong, just the win. Even if the judge is on your side, he has to make a ruling based on the case that is presented. The Miranda rights should be revised to say nothing you say will help you in a court of law, but can be picked apart and taken out of context to damage you.

[Magwa]

I to am of the opinion since I read "unintended consequences" say nothing not a freekin word.....

[washguy]

Can I still talk with Robo ? :) Wash

[Robocop1051]

Can I still talk with Robo ? :) Wash

Only if it's dirty... really DURTY!!!!

[jrtMA]

I haven't met a person that couldn't be prosecuted for a felony in some jurisdiction.  Don't think so?

...

Most department's policies nationwide insist cops involved in a shooting do NOT speak until a few days have passed and a union rep (lawyer) is present.

 

Why should you be treated differently?

 

This is absolutely true, we are trained to be information sponges and that can also be used against each and every one of us if we are involved in a justifiable on-duty shooting.  Even LE shouldn't talk right away or put pen to paper right after an incident.  The department union rep and department lawyer should be the first people that are spoken to after an incident.  

 

An example of a inaccurate recollection can be seen and obtained easily after an incident due to the amount of adrenaline that is released and people also reacting differently in moments of high stress. 

..."3 shots were fired" when 6 were actually discharged...anything can be potentially used against you.

 

However, people shouldn't be afraid to talk to LE in certain instances, let's not take the topic to an extreme nature.

Edited January 4, 2014 by jrtmasp

[Matt.Cross]

And you know ALL the laws ??

Hate to be misquoted... Opps must have lied... Guilty !

A lot of police departments have a policy of : arresting one party to cool off a situation. Let's say you are arrested and you give a statement. It can and will be used against you. Whatever is writen on that note pad will be transfer to a report the next day. Memory may have changed , facts ommitted. Your words have just been used against you. It is now in print and a bias DA trying to make a name for himself sees an easy case just ruined your life.

Do you have a come back for that !

 

I have a comeback for that... You're amongst friends here, and differences of opinions can be discussed without escalating egos, so please don't throw challenges at members who are just having a conversation.

 

 There's no question that there's a balance to be found here. Sketch's point is valid, exercising good judgment and abiding by the law will largely keep you from ever having to exercise your 5th amendment rights. However, when the time comes that your statement has even the slightest chance of incriminating you, plead the 5th and weather the storm until help arrives. Life is too short to spend any amount of it trying to reverse a big legal botch job that can be avoided by consulting a legal expert.

[Powerman]

We have a lot of rights. We have the rights to bear arms, and we exercise that right. Why in the world would we not exercise the rest of them when our liberty is on the line? ???

 

I too sort of did not see the point, until I listened to case after case of how doing the right thing and helping an investigation will get you hung. I won't say a word until my attorney is there. And if that means a night in jail, so be it... better than years.

 

 

All I know is... I will never ever ever never be set free by any statement I could ever give. The police will investigate. The DA will charge me, or not charge me, based on what is found in the investigation. Period. The only thing a statement from me could EVER be used for is to put me behind bars. Period.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Powerman

[sketch]

I have a comeback for that... You're amongst friends here, and differences of opinions can be discussed without escalating egos, so please don't throw challenges at members who are just having a conversation.

 

 There's no question that there's a balance to be found here. Sketch's point is valid, exercising good judgment and abiding by the law will largely keep you from ever having to exercise your 5th amendment rights. However, when the time comes that your statement has even the slightest chance of incriminating you, plead the 5th and weather the storm until help arrives. Life is too short to spend any amount of it trying to reverse a big legal botch job that can be avoided by consulting a legal expert.

Thanks Matt I would have stated the same but my quote was unapropriat to his statement so he was welcome to it and I ment no argument towards any of the comments but respect is due to Leo I'm not one to make a job harder or just lay back I think there's no bad ? But I stand corrected thanks for giving me the 5th :)

[Dane Armory]

I have a comeback for that... You're amongst friends here, and differences of opinions can be discussed without escalating egos, so please don't throw challenges at members who are just having a conversation.

 

 There's no question that there's a balance to be found here. Sketch's point is valid, exercising good judgment and abiding by the law will largely keep you from ever having to exercise your 5th amendment rights. However, when the time comes that your statement has even the slightest chance of incriminating you, plead the 5th and weather the storm until help arrives. Life is too short to spend any amount of it trying to reverse a big legal botch job that can be avoided by consulting a legal expert.

Matt , I was making a point about Sketch's comment. No personal attack was intended. A LEO working a 12 hr shift and doing his reports at the end of his shift or the next day. Things change, memory bends the facts. Those notes are IT. No disrespect to any LEO's on the board they have a stressful job and deal with the worst people 85% of the time.Because of that reason they assume everyone is lying and must act accordingly.

Here is a little fact: 40,000 new Laws kicked in on Jan 1.

Good luck knowing the ones that effect you

And once again, if you are involved in a shooting STFU . Talk to your lawyer first.

[sketch]

Respect!

Edited January 5, 2014 by sketch

[Matt.Cross]

Matt , I was making a point about Sketch's comment. No personal attack was intended. A LEO working a 12 hr shift and doing his reports at the end of his shift or the next day. Things change, memory bends the facts. Those notes are IT. No disrespect to any LEO's on the board they have a stressful job and deal with the worst people 85% of the time.Because of that reason they assume everyone is lying and must act accordingly.

Here is a little fact: 40,000 new Laws kicked in on Jan 1.

Good luck knowing the ones that effect you

And once again, if you are involved in a shooting STFU . Talk to your lawyer first.

 

You're GTG, my stake isn't with what points are being made, that's part of the conversation. My duty is to the tone of the conversation and making sure that this forum stays a place we all like to visit. So far so good in that respect. <thumbsup>

 

Also, I happen to agree completely with the point you're making. I'm just not in the "you should never speak to the police under any circumstances" camp. If I were an eyewitness to a crime, that attitude could severely impede the success of the resulting investigation. So again, a balance has to be found, as with everything. ;)

[Powerman]

You're GTG, my stake isn't with what points are being made, that's part of the conversation. My duty is to the tone of the conversation and making sure that this forum stays a place we all like to visit. So far so good in that respect. <thumbsup>

 

Also, I happen to agree completely with the point you're making. I'm just not in the "you should never speak to the police under any circumstances" camp. If I were an eyewitness to a crime, that attitude could severely impede the success of the resulting investigation. So again, a balance has to be found, as with everything. ;)

 

 

If I can help an investigation I will. If I am the subject of the investigation, then absolutely not. That is what the 5th is... my right to not help you investigate and convict me. That's the State's job.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Powerman

[blue109]

The way things are now, you never know how justified that investigation is that you are helping. My faith in our entire legal system is such that unless I know EXACTLY what is going on, i'm not saying anything. I'm not going to help someone get railroaded for doing something I might possibly agree with, regardless of it's legal interpretation.

[Tripledeuce]

   I have a felony arrest record.   To show how bogus the charge was,,,,,,,,after the charge was dismissed, I was able to obtain, IN CALIF!!!, a concieled weapons permit, and a FFL.

   But, I still have an arrest record.  and any leo running my background has access to it.

   Don't talk without a lawyer .

    Respectfully

     Terry

[MaDuce]

The way things are now, you never know how justified that investigation is that you are helping. My faith in our entire legal system is such that unless I know EXACTLY what is going on, i'm not saying anything. I'm not going to help someone get railroaded for doing something I might possibly agree with, regardless of it's legal interpretation.

 

I am with you 100% on that. The only reason I never became a cop is because I can't throw people in jail for activities that are not real crimes. I alway have and always will do what I believe in. If my job requires that I violate my beliefs, I find another one.

 

 

   I have a felony arrest record.   To show how bogus the charge was,,,,,,,,after the charge was dismissed, I was able to obtain, IN CALIF!!!, a concieled weapons permit, and a FFL.

   But, I still have an arrest record.  and any leo running my background has access to it.

   Don't talk without a lawyer .

    Respectfully

     Terry

 

Arrest is not conviction. At least California recognizes that.

 

 

If I can help an investigation I will. If I am the subject of the investigation, then absolutely not. That is what the 5th is... my right to not help you investigate and convict me. That's the State's job.

 

Just be very careful your statement/s don't get you on the suspect list. It's amazing how easy that can happen. My rule is that I don't talk to police unless I have something specific to offer. If I do, I will share it and I have (very recently in fact) but I knew exactly what I was doing and that there was no chance of myself ending up on the list of suspects.

 

 

You're GTG, my stake isn't with what points are being made, that's part of the conversation. My duty is to the tone of the conversation and making sure that this forum stays a place we all like to visit. So far so good in that respect. <thumbsup>

 

Also, I happen to agree completely with the point you're making. I'm just not in the "you should never speak to the police under any circumstances" camp. If I were an eyewitness to a crime, that attitude could severely impede the success of the resulting investigation. So again, a balance has to be found, as with everything. ;)

 

Regarding witness to crime, see my above point. Note what they said in the video, "under no uncertain terms". If the terms are certain then you're obviously OK.

 

As far as LEOs, Mr. Robobot and I never really talked about it but all the other cops and former cops I know and have talked about it with are in agreement with keeping your mouth shut. They seam to have a , "good night Ralph. Good night Sam" attitude towards the matter. It's their job to get people to talk but have no problem admittign on personal grounds that it's a bad idea.

 

 Refusing to talk to police is not an act of hate or disrespect to the officers. And police can usually tell if you're just being a jerk or if you're keeping your mouth shut because you understand the risks of opening it.

 

 BTW. My nephiew's grandfather is a Florida cop (my brother got a cop's 14 year old daughter pregnant. Shows how smart he is). He (grandpa) told me a few years ago that one of his lines to suspects is, "You have the right to remain silent and you better use it". sighting that he never arrests anyone unless he has enough evidence to convict them. They say that if he arrests you then you need to be arrested. Even so, I can hardly believe he didn't kill my brother when my brother got their baby pregnant. I don't judge other according to their family and I hope to god I am given the same consideration. LOL.

Edited January 21, 2014 by MaDuce