Looks like a non-secure holster -- or not?

[gnatshooter]

There's a woodman in those pants or you have funny skin . <dontknow>

 

LOL

[98Z5V]

Since you've made the decision to carry a .22LR for a defensive pistol, you need to watch this.  I don't know why you've made this decision, and that doesn't matter to me.  However, since you're carrying a 1911 replica, my simple opinion is that you just need to get a real 1911 and carry that.  If it ever comes down to it, and you need to pull that pistol to protect your life, you'll be much better off in the long run by not carrying a pistol based on the .22LR cartridge.  To each, his own.

 

"Don't shoot a large caliber man with a small caliber gun."

 

 

 

ProTip - by the way, don't EVER rely on .22LR hollowpoint ammunition through a semi-automatic.  When you need that gun to function the most, your hollowpoint ammunition will hang up on your semi-auto feedramps.  Take that for what it's worth.

 

ProTip #2 - if you can't shoot your .22 like the guy in this video, then you need to practice.  You NEED to be able to shoot it just like that, if it's what will be protecting your life. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by 98Z5V

[shibiwan]

Heh... never understood the 22LR except for practice/training/kids. It's like a peashooter and will simply annoy the perp.  <laughs>

[planeflyer21]

Heh... never understood the 22LR except for practice/training/kids. It's like a peashooter and will simply annoy the perp.  <laughs>

 

I've had plenty of students with physical disabilities who couldn't manage a firearm in any other caliber.

 

A friend's acquaintence has a similar health issue and carried a small 10-shot semi-auto, with which she dryfired about 1500 times a week, and shoots 100-200 rounds of live ammo a week.  From the holster at 15 yards, she can draw and rapid fire all 10-shots, putting them in a golfball sized circle.

 

Practice-practice-practice!

[survivalshop]

  Well , all I got to say is , I was shot with a 22 LR in the Abdomen at almost point blank range . it bounced around a bit before lodging in the muscle tissue of my spine , where it still resides today . The shot put me on the ground , probably because it hit my spine . felt like someone had pushed a broom handle into me , but real fast.  The revolver an H&R top break , miss fired when he pointed it at my head when I was laying on the floor of the bar & all my buddies jumped him & held him for LE. They had to remove six inches of my small intestines & I was in ICU for a week .

 

 I can tell you this , I could only lay there , when he pointed the gun at my head , I was helpless to move . This happened in 1977.

 

  When they moved me to a regular bed , I was in a the room with an older fella that told me a story of how he was shot . He was going into a Bar & some people were coming out , so he held the door for them & one of the guys that was coming out put a revolver to his face & fired it . These people had just robbed the Bar. The 32 cal. bullet , hit his cheek bone & followed his skull around his head & lodged in the skin in the back of his neck , lucky guy. I just found it strange that we were in the same room & me recovering from a gunshot . <dontknow>

[planeflyer21]

Wow! Glad you're here now SS!

 

Have a buddy in a rural area who armed his daughters with 10/22s in each of their bedrooms, with a stack of 25-round magazines.  Their drill was to barricade and let lead fly if anyone tried coming in.

[Microgunner]

A person with a rimfire that he can shoot well is far better armed than a person with a centerfire that he doesn't shoot well.

Sometimes a rimfire is the better choice.

[gnatshooter]

A person with a rimfire that he can shoot well is far better armed than a person with a centerfire that he doesn't shoot well. Sometimes a rimfire is the better choice.

 

The virtues of 'shooting straight' cannot be underestimated. If you follow the news, most rounds from handguns 'go astray'. This disappoints criminals all the time, and embarrasses law enforcement as well.

 

Even so, lots of rounds from handguns hit their target. But if you follow the news, you've noticed that guns are not a reliable tool for killing people. At least, not in big cities, where emergency health care is not far away. 

 

If handguns are not reliable tools for killing, what's their value? Maybe their value is in persuading someone to stop what they are doing. That can be done with various calibers, with various results.

 

I've done quite a few experiments with .22lr and have found that the round is far worse than stabbing someone. And, since .22lr is a cheap round, I do a lot more practice with it, making 'stray rounds' far less likely.

 

There is also a tradeoff between how much of a weapon you carry, and how likely it is that you'll need to use it. A police officer will more likely need a big-bore pistol and will be more likely to put up with the weight all day (or all night) long. An LEO will be unlikely to carry a .50 all day long, even though everyone loves the largest caliber for any situation. Me? I'll be taking the kids (another post) to museums and nature parks and similar summertime things and events.

 

If it becomes my responsibility to perforate the lungs of an @$$|-|0L# I think I can do that with a .22lr. Without hurting bystanders.

 

I am confident that these remarks will draw a $|-|!+$+0r^^ of controversy, but it will be a long time before I don't need to learn anymore.

Edited June 9, 2014 by gnatshooter

[StainTrain]

A person with a rimfire that he can shoot well is far better armed than a person with a centerfire that he doesn't shoot well.

Sometimes a rimfire is the better choice.

While I agree with you about shooting well......I can say that of the people that I have seen shot, heard about being shot, or talked to the cute nurses (and ugly ones) in our Level I and Level II trauma centers about being shot, the person with the smaller wound channels fairs much better than the one with the larger ones.   

 

However, to your point.  There are a lot of dead people who got that way with the help of a .22lr.

Edited June 10, 2014 by StainTrain

[StainTrain]

 

If it becomes my responsibility to perforate the lungs of an @$$|-|0L# I think I can do that with a .22lr. Without hurting bystanders.

 

 

Which may very well be the case, but depending on the percentage of perforation or collapse, you may still have a bad mofo to contend with.  Your best bet is to create as many large vent holes as you can where there is some plumbing. 

Edited June 10, 2014 by StainTrain

[edgecrusher]

I am confident that these remarks will draw a $|-|!+$+0r^^ of controversy, but it will be a long time before I don't need to learn anymore.

This comment is going to draw the ire of others more than anything.

Your last post is flawed greatly, but I will not attack you, but set forth a few questions to assess what is what here.

Have you ever had any training with a professional? If not, I highly suggest it. There's a lot to be learned, even by those of us who carry weapons for a living. There is no such thing as over training.

Never ever underestimate person wielding a knife. Ever. (And here is perhaps the best argument for a larger bore self defense pistol) if someone can get within 15' of you with an edged weapon before you have drawn, your toast. We are trained to take them inside before they get inside 20', but better at 30'. It's a fact, and the closer they are, if you are drawing and firing from the hip for center mass (something you should train for), I'd rather the punch of my .45 than a 22lr.

Train up. That's the bottom line. I would carry a 1911 in 45 if you are comfortable doing in 22lr. You can't justify less collateral damage. Any at all will be unacceptable. And the more training the less chance of this. High pressure situation training is way different than going to the range, sign up for a course and test yourself. I guarantee you will re evaluate your thoughts

[98Z5V]

  Well , all I got to say is , I was shot with a 22 LR in the Abdomen at almost point blank range . it bounced around a bit before lodging in the muscle tissue of my spine , where it still resides today . The shot put me on the ground , probably because it hit my spine . felt like someone had pushed a broom handle into me , but real fast.  The revolver an H&R top break , miss fired when he pointed it at my head when I was laying on the floor of the bar & all my buddies jumped him & held him for LE. They had to remove six inches of my small intestines & I was in ICU for a week .

 

 I can tell you this , I could only lay there , when he pointed the gun at my head , I was helpless to move . This happened in 1977.

 

  When they moved me to a regular bed , I was in a the room with an older fella that told me a story of how he was shot . He was going into a Bar & some people were coming out , so he held the door for them & one of the guys that was coming out put a revolver to his face & fired it . These people had just robbed the Bar. The 32 cal. bullet , hit his cheek bone & followed his skull around his head & lodged in the skin in the back of his neck , lucky guy. I just found it strange that we were in the same room & me recovering from a gunshot . <dontknow>

 

SS, how do you think you would have come out - if the shooter hit you with .45ACP, .45LC, .44Mag, .40 S&W, .357 Mag, .38 Special,  .380ACP, 9mm...      ?

 

 

Had anything other than .22LR been used, I don't think I'd be replying to you right now, brother. 

 

 

If handguns are not reliable tools for killing, what's their value? Maybe their value is in persuading someone to stop what they are doing. That can be done with various calibers, with various results.

 

I've done quite a few experiments with .22lr and have found that the round is far worse than stabbing someone. And, since .22lr is a cheap round, I do a lot more practice with it, making 'stray rounds' far less likely.

 

 

Sounds like you're going to rely on this .22LR pistol for self defense, because it LOOKS like a familiar, larger caliber handgun.  If you're planning in intimidating someone with a handgun, then you're carrying for the wrong reasons.

 

Also, you're not training with a .22LR handgun alot lately.  Not unless you stocked up on ammo about 1.5 years ago.

Edited June 10, 2014 by 98Z5V

[gnatshooter]

Actually, I started buying ammo with both hands right after Newtown, so my inventory is good.

[survivalshop]

  To be honest , I was pretty much dead on the Operating table (that's a whole story in its self ) Sure , maybe he got off a lucky shot & hit the right place. Same could be true if he hit a major Artery with that little pill , but that was not my point in telling my story , its that any gun shot with any caliber can be deadly .

 

  I could only guess at the outcome of any other caliber, sure you can say this one or that one would have" kelt my dead" , but there are too many factors involved to say one way or the other . I did read some where , where the .38 cal. was used in more deadly (death ) shootings than any other caliber , but that may be because it has been used longer & more often. We are not talking  military combat shootings , these are civilian shootings.

 

  For all the hype on the .40 cal. , from what I have been reading , its not the man stopper its all cracked up to be , but it is still early in its statistical data gathering .

[Microgunner]

I'm of the school that shot placement is far more important than caliber.

For this reason, even though I own handguns in just about every major defensive caliber, I rely mostly on 9mm, which I shoot faster accurately.

[blue109]

my partner sitting on the truck with me right now took a 7.62x39 in the back while servicing an ATM in Oakland. the person assigned to guard him that day took one from the same rifle and died on the spot. just too many variables to give credibility to the "X caliber would have been better/worse" argument.

[unforgiven]

Crazy $hit brother S.S. , glad you made it. <thumbsup>

[StainTrain]

 

  For all the hype on the .40 cal. , from what I have been reading , its not the man stopper its all cracked up to be , but it is still early in its statistical data gathering .

None of them are.  Humans aren't as easy to remove from this earth as Hollywood would like us to believe.  Exsanguination is the typical cause of death from being shot so theory being that bigger holes equals faster and more voluminous blood loss......but that is an over simplification.  The human body is a complex system and is extremely resilient.  There is a lot of data on the .40 caliber out there and for the most part, the stats mimic the 9mm.  There are many theories for this and one big one reason is the advancement and prevalence of Level I and Level II Trauma Centers in the United States in the past 20 years.     

Edited June 11, 2014 by StainTrain

[Robocop1051]

With the modern ammo out there, I'm regaining a lot of respect for the 9mm. Almost thought of swapping my duty P220 for a P226 TacOps, just for the 20 round mags... then I shot my P220 again and fell in love all over again.

[StainTrain]

With the modern ammo out there, I'm regaining a lot of respect for the 9mm. Almost thought of swapping my duty P220 for a P226 TacOps, just for the 20 round mags... then I shot my P220 again and fell in love all over again.

P220....What's not to love.....?   I agree 100% the newer 9mm ammo demands a lot of respect.  

Edited June 11, 2014 by StainTrain

[shibiwan]

With the modern ammo out there, I'm regaining a lot of respect for the 9mm. Almost thought of swapping my duty P220 for a P226 TacOps, just for the 20 round mags... then I shot my P220 again and fell in love all over again.

 

P227, comes with 10-round mags, but the 14-round mags should be available.... eventually. I assume Mec-Gar will start making them. When you get ready to sell the P220, give me a shout.

 

The 20-round mags fit any P226. The Tac-Ops model just has the additional fancy grips designed around the 20-round mags. Other thing to consider is the new X-Five Tactical (or German market X-Five SO) - it's basically an SAO P226 9mm with a 5" barrel, precision trigger, and standard 17-round capacity mags, and the recent re-design has "modernized" the look somewhat.

 

FYI - the P227 is a double stacked P220. The entire slide assembly (barrel and all) can be switched back and forth between the two. Triggers etc are all interchangeable.

Edited June 11, 2014 by shibiwan

[98Z5V]

As far as permanently parking someone, if you don't make a T-Zone hit or a CNS hit, you cannot guarantee that they will go down and stay down.  If you DO make one of those hits, they will not get up again, under their own power.  Ever.

[StainTrain]

As far as permanently parking someone, if you don't make a T-Zone hit or a CNS hit, you cannot guarantee that they will go down and stay down.  If you DO make one of those hits, they will not get up again, under their own power.  Ever.

<thumbsup>

[planeflyer21]

Stats aren't good for any handgun caliber at making them push up daisies.  85% or so survival rate.

 

Compare that with a 65% or so lethality rate of knives.

 

Users of both probably have minimal training towards employing either in a fight for their life.

 

The major difference is people use knives all the time.  ALL THE TIME.  Correlating slicing and piercing on a daily basis to slicing and piercing an adversary is a short line to cross.

 

Correlating going to the range twice a year, planting your feet and holding rock steady while slowly squeezing the trigger, to make tiny groups of holes in the target...to protecting your head-torso-pistol while deflecting an attacker's weapon and making sure your muzzle stays trained upon that adversary, while getting off meaningful decently placed shots, without passing plugs through your wife/husband/child/friend.

 

TRAIN! TRAIN! TRAIN!

[edgecrusher]

Hmm sounds familiar....

Btw, next time we visit the relatives in AZ, I want to check out what's in the works Jon, maybe something for me and the wife, or an advanced course if I can get away...