CASEYPM Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) Last fall my PSA PA-10 was making sub moa groups @ 100 yds. During non-deer season (what most people call summer) I took the scope off and put on the 1X red dot and probably put 200 rounds down range. I slapped the scope back on and I'm less than enthused at the results. It only took 3-4 1/4 moa clicks to get dead center but then they were going everywhere. The top left was my first sight in. I do realize that all of these are kill shots on a deer and I'm okay with that for now. The scope is super glued to the rings and was tightened to the picatinny rail per factory spec. I used a bench rest and there was low wind at 74℉. The scope is a center point 4-16x40. The only thing different was that I shot a lot of cheap Russian steel Tulammo this summer through it. Is it possible that it damaged the barrel? I'm hoping this is just user error and the fact I haven't picked up my rifle in a couple months. Any thoughts? Edited October 10, 2016 by CASEYPM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 You are going to want pics of the rifle, scope, rings, and mount posted up. Looking at the targets, my guess is something is moving. Never heard of using super glue to mount a scope to the rings. IME super glue is brittle and the bond often breaks at the surface where it was applied. Again, none of that is on firearm use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CASEYPM Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 It's not the best pic. I didn't want to wake the wife getting into the gun safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 100yds in this photo? Get a wheeler fat wrench set and loose the glue.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CASEYPM Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CASEYPM Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, planeflyer21 said: You are going to want pics of the rifle, scope, rings, and mount posted up. Looking at the targets, my guess is something is moving. Never heard of using super glue to mount a scope to the rings. IME super glue is brittle and the bond often breaks at the surface where it was applied. Again, none of that is on firearm use. I took the advice from an old man on the super glue. I'm going to take it off and remount it in a couple days and head back to the range. I know it's a cheap scope, but it's worked flawlessly before. That's probably my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 "I took the advice from an old man on the super glue. " I swear guys it wasnt me ! Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CASEYPM Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, sketch said: 100yds in this photo? Get a wheeler fat wrench set and loose the glue.? Yes. 100 yds. Here's some better pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 I assume you put a brush down the bore since you used the Russian crap. That stuff is dirty! I have an old 7.62x39 and that is the only thing that gets steel cased ammo. Guessing something is loose. Hopefully not in the optic. Can always slap the red dot back on and send some down range to rule out if it is the rifle itself, but I doubt it is. What ammo were you using when you fired those groups in the picture? Are you changing ammo brands or bullet sizes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtom Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 here is what i will do: mount the scope lower if you can help it, use the fat wrench, use lock tight and last but not least, you might want to think of buying a different scope that can take the 308 recoil. think vortex.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 With sisco, what brand and grain ammo are you trying to shoot now? did your scope get bumped or dropped or anything?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CASEYPM Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Sisco said: I assume you put a brush down the bore since you used the Russian crap. That stuff is dirty! I have an old 7.62x39 and that is the only thing that gets steel cased ammo. Guessing something is loose. Hopefully not in the optic. Can always slap the red dot back on and send some down range to rule out if it is the rifle itself, but I doubt it is. What ammo were you using when you fired those groups in the picture? Are you changing ammo brands or bullet sizes? I was using perfecta .308. Cheap Italian fmj. Never had a problem with it before. The last shots I took (in picture) was Remington deer season 150 gr .308. Bottom right hole was .40 from my pistol. I was pretty stoked at hitting a 6X10 target at 100 yds with a pistol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 If you must use the risers, make sure they are pushed all the way forward into the rail slots while you tighten them...and then make sure the rings are pushed all the way forward into the riser slots. I'd be most suspicious of the super glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 2 hours ago, CASEYPM said: I was using perfecta .308. Cheap Italian fmj. Never had a problem with it before. The last shots I took (in picture) was Remington deer season 150 gr .308. Bottom right hole was .40 from my pistol. I was pretty stoked at hitting a 6X10 target at 100 yds with a pistol. I use a lot of Perfecta in my pistols because it is a heck of a price at Wally World, and nice brass for reloading. It is ok ammo as far as I am concerned. See if you can borrow a scope to try to rule out that it is anything in the rifle. Then you will know if the scope or the rifle is the problem. A 100 yard shot with a S and W .40 is darn good. Doubt I could do it with a semi auto. My S and W N frames would be another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 If it were me.I would start over...$hitcan the rings and risers and get a one piece AR mount and put it on while using a fatty torque wrench...while making sure the scope is on level and then unfoul the barrel with a good cleaning Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CASEYPM Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Sisco said: I use a lot of Perfecta in my pistols because it is a heck of a price at Wally World, and nice brass for reloading. It is ok ammo as far as I am concerned. See if you can borrow a scope to try to rule out that it is anything in the rifle. Then you will know if the scope or the rifle is the problem. A 100 yard shot with a S and W .40 is darn good. Doubt I could do it with a semi auto. My S and W N frames would be another story. Truth be told, it took probably 5-7 shots aiming 2-3' high with the .40 to make it on target. I will do that. I'll borrow a scope next time I go out. Another thing I didn't think of until now is that the upper receiver doesn't make a tight fit. It's a bit wobbbly. I've been meaning to get that polyurethane bushing that goes behing the take down pin. I can't remember what it's called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 49 minutes ago, washguy said: If it were me.I would start over...$hitcan the rings and risers and get a one piece AR mount and put it on while using a fatty torque wrench...while making sure the scope is on level and then unfoul the barrel with a good cleaning Wash Agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 There is a thread around here somewhere that had an issue with a pitted new DPMS barrel & it shot bad groups , just bringing that up , he used a bore scope to see the bad rifling . I for one , do not like risers with rings on top , one piece ring or mount on an AR Uppers Rail , too many variables with multiple attachment points . -Make sure the Barrel is seated correctly & not loose . - Use a known ,good shooting scope & ring or mount combo , with good , name brand ammo for testing . - What Trigger are you using ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CASEYPM Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 42 minutes ago, survivalshop said: There is a thread around here somewhere that had an issue with a pitted new DPMS barrel & it shot bad groups , just bringing that up , he used a bore scope to see the bad rifling . I for one , do not like risers with rings on top , one piece ring or mount on an AR Uppers Rail , too many variables with multiple attachment points . -Make sure the Barrel is seated correctly & not loose . - Use a known ,good shooting scope & ring or mount combo , with good , name brand ammo for testing . - What Trigger are you using ? I'm not gonna lie, it was a budget build and didn't have the $$ for a quality scope or cantilever mount. I may have paid for my stingyness twice. The trigger is a 6.5 lb ALG QMS. I remember a friend that's a marine telling me "pull the trigger so slowly that it surprises you when it goes bang". Which is necessary for a mil spec trigger. Pretty sure I failed to take that into account. I'd love to get a 2 stage 3 lb trigger sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beantown Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 7 hours ago, washguy said: If it were me.I would start over...$hitcan the rings and risers and get a one piece AR mount and put it on while using a fatty torque wrench...while making sure the scope is on level and then unfoul the barrel with a good cleaning Wash ^ x 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmackc Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 Okay don't forget that your first experience with the rifle, scope and ammo was great. Changed out the scope for a red dot and shot 200 rounds of plinking ammo. then took off the red dot and mounted the scope back on. tell us about the scope. Brand and fixed power or variable. where did you store the scope this summer? I ask because I took a Redfield 3200 target scope off my wife's Anshultz .22 rifle and after a off season I remounted it and surprise! the crosshairs had disappeared while stored in a gun safe in the garage. I agree your choice for a mount isn't my choice. There are many adequate mounts to put the scope above the rail on your DPMS rifle. I prefer the Burris rings. each ring has six machine screws holding the scope tube. First tell us how you went about cleaning the bore after shooting the 200 rounds. I would have tried cleaning the bore with Hoppe's Benchrest solvent, after getting the powder debris out of the bore. Hoppe's Benchrest Solvent is a copper removing solvent. I use it in any target rifle shooting copper jacketed bullets. You have to be careful using it on a brass brush, put the solvent onto the brush, never dip the brush in the bottle, the brass brush will contaminate the solvent quickly and the solvent will ruin your brush. After using a brush and patches with regular Hoppes to get the powder crap out of the bore, put some Hoppes bench rest solvent on a brass bore brush one push thru, use a patch on a steel rod push the patch thru the bore and then wait at least 30 minutes, and run a clean patch. it may go rough and come out super nasty. do several patches and a solvent on a brush ect.,ect.until it looks like most of the copper is gone. Remember to keep the muzzle of the rifle downhill and the gas port up on top to keep from getting a lot of solvent and crap into the gas system. Remember that you need a clean bore, but also that brush and solvent also does do some wear on the bore. Just My Humble Opinion, for what it is worth..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmackc Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 By the way it probably would be a good idea to use nylon bore brushes with Hoppes Benchrest 9Solvent. I use a brass bore brush because I have a large supply of surplus 30 cal brushes I got at an auction. The solvent still attacks the nylon brushes brass core. If you want to make them last longer clean them with brake cleaner or lacquer cleaner.I don't oil the bores for storage I just run a patch damp with standard Hoppes#9. I like it and just love that #9 smell. it don't seem to attract dust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 What MRMAC sez for sure ! Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineralman55 Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 I can empathize with the "bad day" at the range, but nothing blew up, so it's not too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CASEYPM Posted October 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 On 10/10/2016 at 10:53 PM, mrmackc said: By the way it probably would be a good idea to use nylon bore brushes with Hoppes Benchrest 9Solvent. I use a brass bore brush because I have a large supply of surplus 30 cal brushes I got at an auction. The solvent still attacks the nylon brushes brass core. If you want to make them last longer clean them with brake cleaner or lacquer cleaner.I don't oil the bores for storage I just run a patch damp with standard Hoppes#9. I like it and just love that #9 smell. it don't seem to attract dust The scope is a center point 4-16X40. It was stored in an ammunition box with dehumidifier inside gun vault. I use outers brand rifle cleaning kit. Soaked brass brush, patches with nitro solvent until clean. Then I use a barrel mop until dry. I've always been skeptical about putting oil inside the barrel since its stored in air tight vault with dehumidifier. Just for good measure, I cleaned it the other day and the patches weren't that dirty. I use frog lube on my rifle. A friend gave me a tube of it and seems to work great. And I love that wintergreen smell it has. I'm really starting to think this was just user error and the fact that I haven't put any rounds downrange in a few months. The mil spec trigger isn't my friend at all. I think I'm just not used to its breaking point. We shall see next weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.