Sharpshooter Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 Okay, so another newbie dumba$$ question. I've got a DPMS G2 .308 but I don't have the time or money to run magazine after magazine through it. My normal routine is to run 4 or 5 rounds, trying to get it sighted in (at 40 yards, I've got the Magpul BUIS all the way to the left and it's still grouping a couple of inches away from center), then giving up in disgust and breaking it down for cleaning. So, if I'm doing it this slowly, does it really need to run wet? If so, just for my understanding, why? What makes these things so different from my 1911s, my Browning Sweet 16s, my Remington 1100s, etc.? You get the idea. None of them needed to be soaked in oil to run. Why does this one need it? (Not that I'm arguing ... just wondering.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: None of them needed to be soaked in oil to run. Why does this one need it? It's 30% larger than the AR15, and there is no "mil-spec" on it. Parts don't "line up" like an AR15, the springs are much stronger, and - there is no spec to follow. There's much more gas pressure in the 308 direct inpingement gas system... and manufacturers can't figure that out... If you want it to function, right out of the box, then... Edited May 13, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmackc Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 A couple of your items pictured need to be put back where they came from, don't waste the slickidy stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 33 minutes ago, mrmackc said: A couple of your items pictured need to be put back where they came from, don't waste the slickidy stuff! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Sharpshooter said: Okay, so another newbie dumba$$ question. I've got a DPMS G2 .308 but I don't have the time or money to run magazine after magazine through it. My normal routine is to run 4 or 5 rounds, trying to get it sighted in (at 40 yards, I've got the Magpul BUIS all the way to the left and it's still grouping a couple of inches away from center), then giving up in disgust and breaking it down for cleaning. So, if I'm doing it this slowly, does it really need to run wet? If so, just for my understanding, why? What makes these things so different from my 1911s, my Browning Sweet 16s, my Remington 1100s, etc.? You get the idea. None of them needed to be soaked in oil to run. Why does this one need it? (Not that I'm arguing ... just wondering.) I’ve also had that issue with those sights but no others.... hmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 (edited) I'll throw this out there....make sure your rear sight is not mounted backwards. We did that with our first one and had a hell of a time. We thought something was way outta line on the rifle. Nope. We were just dumbasses. (I say we because my father and I were big involved. I'm still too embarrassed to claim full responsibility.) Edited May 13, 2018 by DNP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 On 5/13/2018 at 7:18 AM, mrmackc said: A couple of your items pictured need to be put back where they came from, don't waste the slickidy stuff! Spoken like a true ol'timer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 Long story short, AR-pattern rifles (both small- and large-frame) like to be run wet, anyway. When they're new, it's even more important -- you have to allow all the new parts to "wear in" to one another over anywhere from 100 to 300 rounds. When I started breaking in my DPMS LR-308, I literally soaked the BCG and the charging handle (sans the handle itself) in Mobil 1 15W-50. As in, poured oil into a gallon Ziploc bag and let the parts sit in it while I cleaned the rest of the rifle. After everything else was done, they were allowed to drip a bit, the bolt face was wiped dry, and it was all re-assembled. Not one hiccup has been had from a rifle broken in this way, in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrt_tr6 Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 I would think, if you want the parts to "wear in", light, normal lube of contact points and frequent cleaning to remove any particles would be the way to go. soaking them in a bag of oil? a light coat of grease on sliding surfaces is all you need, a drop or 2 inside the bolt carrier to lube the rings, a squirt of oil on the trigger assembly pivot points . after the first couple shots, any excess lube is scraped away. any lubricant on non-contact surfaces just get flung around and makes a mess. but whatever works for you is fine, just know that in my experience these rifles don't need to run "wet", what ever that really mean, and grease stays in place on sliding parts a lot better than oil. I have never had any AR style rifle need any sort of real break-in to run cleanly (8 so far) from the start. And if they don't run well with stock parts, you have an issue that needs to be uncovered and corrected before you start adding adjustable gas blocks and swapping buffer weights to reduce the recoil. As my Gunny said about someone who wanted to use a muzzle break in match shooting, If the recoil of an AR15 bothers you, maybe you need to find another hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmackc Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 "I would think" ....could that be a WAG about doing break in on a LR 308, or do you have good documentation , like from the manufacture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 21 minutes ago, terrt_tr6 said: As my Gunny said about someone who wanted to use a muzzle break in match shooting, If the recoil of an AR15 bothers you, maybe you need to find another hobby. Ummm yeah. That’s moronic, I don’t care who said it. You don’t use a BRAKE because it bothers you, you use it for faster follow up shots, so.... In a match it sure does make sense. But you have 8 AR’s so you know best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 1 hour ago, terrt_tr6 said: I have never had any AR style rifle need any sort of real break-in to run cleanly (8 so far) from the start. How many are large frame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 1 hour ago, terrt_tr6 said: I have never had any AR style rifle need any sort of real break-in to run cleanly (8 so far) from the start. How many of your 8 ARs are large-format ARs? Please list them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 1 minute ago, 98Z5V said: How many of your 8 ARs are large-format ARs? Please list them. Great minds think alike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Just now, shepp said: Great minds think alike Yeah, he got his "first PA GEN II" according to his first post here, on March 20th,the same day he joined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 1 hour ago, terrt_tr6 said: If the recoil of an AR15 bothers you, maybe you need to find another hobby. Or you just put on an effective muzzle brake and tell the Gunny how the food service industry is languishing in his absence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Anyone, anywhere, can build an AR15, with whatever-parts from whatever-place, and run the thing BONE DRY very easily. The big ones here, not so much. Ain't happenin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrt_tr6 Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 sorry, i only have one .308 format. but i have trouble seeing much different in design from an AR15 that would require any difference in lubrication. And you may be right, if you are doing combat style match shooting a brake would help with follow-up shots. And WHERE did i say bone dry? I stated that oil on parts that have no contact is meaningless. and a light coat of a good grease stays in place on sliding points of contact. " I would think" was a polite way of saying soaking your bolt carrier and charging handle in a bag of oil is just about the most stupid thing i have ever heard of, other than telling a marine gunny to his face he needs to get a job at a fast food restaurant. carry on boys. i will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, terrt_tr6 said: soaking your bolt carrier and charging handle in a bag of oil is just about the most stupid thing i have ever heard of, other than telling a marine gunny to his face he needs to get a job at a fast food restaurant. Well, your advice will be regarded as having all the validity that can be expected of someone who has owned their first large AR for less than 6 months, and wants to tell a community that has been building and shooting them for well beyond 10 years what makes sense and what doesn't. By all means, carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, terrt_tr6 said: sorry, i only have one .308 format. but i have trouble seeing much different in design from an AR15 that would require any difference in lubrication. And you may be right, if you are doing combat style match shooting a brake would help with follow-up shots. And WHERE did i say bone dry? I stated that oil on parts that have no contact is meaningless. and a light coat of a good grease stays in place on sliding points of contact. " I would think" was a polite way of saying soaking your bolt carrier and charging handle in a bag of oil is just about the most stupid thing i have ever heard of, other than telling a marine gunny to his face he needs to get a job at a fast food restaurant. carry on boys. i will You have ONE. Your subject base is ONE. Go build several others, boy, and tell me how it works out for you, with your minimal lube. You got lucky, nothing more, and you think that's the way it is. You didn't say BONE DRY - I'm the one that said that, and I didn't reference it to you in any way I said anyone can build an AR15-format rifle, and dun it BONE DRY, and it will initially function - IF something wasn't fucked up in the assembly. You "have trouble seeing much different in design from an AR15", because you don't have the experience on the Large-Frame Platform. You think it's all cute and easy, like AR15s are - and that is not the case. There is no spec, like the too-easy AR15s have , there are THREE different major platform designs involved, and that's not counting the crazy shiit that POF does, or the DPMS G II, and several others. There's NO pattern to follow, like an AR15. You go build something from all-parts, from different manufacturers, run it with your minimal lube, and honestly come back in here - and ask us to diagnose your current issue that you're having, so you can fix it, and move on to the next issue that you're having. It happens every single day here. Edited May 19, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, terrt_tr6 said: sorry, i only have one .308 format. but i have trouble seeing much different in design from an AR15 that would require any difference in lubrication. And you may be right, if you are doing combat style match shooting a brake would help with follow-up shots. And WHERE did i say bone dry? I stated that oil on parts that have no contact is meaningless. and a light coat of a good grease stays in place on sliding points of contact. " I would think" was a polite way of saying soaking your bolt carrier and charging handle in a bag of oil is just about the most stupid thing i have ever heard of, other than telling a marine gunny to his face he needs to get a job at a fast food restaurant. carry on boys. i will You didn’t, but with a lot of these large frame ar’s “a few drops” might as well be bone dry. where they differ, lack of milspec, different formats tolerances..... no harm no foul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 On 5/12/2018 at 11:17 PM, 98Z5V said: It's 30% larger than the AR15, and there is no "mil-spec" on it. Parts don't "line up" like an AR15, the springs are much stronger, and - there is no spec to follow. There's much more gas pressure in the 308 direct inpingement gas system... and manufacturers can't figure that out... Tert, whatever - I already spelled it out right here in my post on this. ^^^ But you go ahead and give your expert opinion on it, with the one you "built." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Go compare a DPMS LR308-based firing pin to the Armalite AR-10 firing pin, and THEN take a look at the DPMS G II firing pin - tell me what you see... Tell me now, like I've learned, that you know all about this platform. I don't know everything - something surprises me every single day, and it's a mind-trip. I freaked the first time I looked at a G II firing pin... But, you don't know that. You think you can run this thing on minimal lube. Carry on, boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Tell me about different gas tube lengths. I'm not talking carbine, midlength, and rifle. I'm talking about something COMPLETELY else. If you don't know what I'm talking about - there's a reason for that. School me on recoil systems for the large frame ARs. No, don't school me - just tell me the differences in them. I'd be happy with that. The bottom line is this - don't act like you know everything. There isn't a person out there that knows "everything" on a Large Frame AR. Well, maybe Pat Raley, but I digress... Shoutout to @mrraley Trying to draw you out, brother... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 What you can take away from this is we tell people that they should run it wet for a reason. Much more surface contact area to be mated and springs with tensile resistance greater than a small frame. More lube assists in the mating of parts and also allows you to find other issues you may have during the break in process it’s out worrying about a dry gun hanging up during a firing cycle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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