seawolf71 Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 Brand new PSA ..Not my first AR..Been using ar15/M16 since 1971.Began break in process by shooting brass 7.62x51 and wolf 308 one round at a time..after 8th round it took 2 grown men and a screwdriver to get bolt head completely out of barrel extension.Sent rifle back to PSA..according to their repair notes rifle functioned flawlessly with 20 rounds of Fed 308 180 grains.. They mailed it back..first 2 7.62x51 rounds would nor extract when fired but bolt head did catch them to extract manually.3rd 7.62x51 would not extract and bolt was stuck approx. halfway out of barrel extension (again)..I wound up breaking the rear off of the charging handle and still bolt would not come free. Wound up using 2 flat head screwdirvers against front end of bolt carrier to extract live round from chamber. PSA says only use hi dollar 308?So I have ordered a replacement raptor charging handle and I will go purchase some hi dollar 308 to try again...What gives? Bolt/bcg was well lubricated and I am at a loss.This has taken most of the fun out of my first 308 AR purchase. What(if anything) am I doing wrong?BCG seems to go in and out of battery without round in chamber and shows no signs of shaving or anything.Do I need an adjustable gas block to shoot Nato or steel case ammo?I am at a loss..especially if it is something stupid that I am responsible for...Thanks for all input..even if it is along the lines of" YOU DUMB F**KYOU" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 Pictures, cases that were extracted, gas tube inside the upper. You will need details on size of buffer, depth of buffer tube, length and coil count on spring. Use lots of lube during break in. Does it lock the bolt back after firing a round when it does function? PSA is notorious for poor buffer systems but they change up so much you will want lots of details so our resident experts can diagnose the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf71 Posted December 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 I can readily supply measurements. What about the gas tube inside the upper?bolt was dripping. Plenty of lube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 30 minutes ago, seawolf71 said: I can readily supply measurements. What about the gas tube inside the upper?bolt was dripping. Plenty of lube Pics. PSA has had many issues and there are several great threads documenting issues. We will get it fixed. Pictures and measurements are necessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 42 minutes ago, seawolf71 said: What about the gas tube inside the upper? Need to see how far into the upper the gas tube goes, seen lots of them on the short side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf71 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 Ok. Will provide measurements and this old dinosaur will learn to upload pix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 Welcome to the forums! PSA's large ARs are designated "PA-10", rather than "AR-10" which is an animal of the Armalite variety. Hopefully the distinction can save you some hassle in the future as you upgrade parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf71 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 Thanks for the correction. It will no doubt come up in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed Eye Doc Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 This is the pic needed of the gas tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed Eye Doc Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 And welcome to the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf71 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 thanks already !! Quick question: Assuming I get needed parts replaced and rifle is functioning..Will it then cycle Nato Milspec and/or Wolf 308 with an adjustment of the gas block..similar to an FN/Fal? I haven't had to install an adj gas block on any of my AR 15's so I have no experience..Again..thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, seawolf71 said: I haven't had to install an adj gas block on any of my AR 15's so I have no experience..Again..thanks in advance I wouldn't jump to that right away, like most people do. Verify what you have for a recoil system, first, then move to your gas system - unless that gas tube is short. That's an easy visual inspection, and easy correction. You shouldn't NEED an adjustable gas block for a basic, functional .308AR rifle. That's a want, not a need... Edited December 20, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
308kiwi Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 Sounds to me like you need to........ 1, sort your ammo, ie known quality factory ammo, and I'm particularly saying this to discourage you from shooting steel cased junk, I know many people have joy with steel cased ammo but think about it, it's made with steel cases for a reason...........budget........., if the manufacturer is cutting costs on the cases then how can you have any confidence in the remaining components from the perspective of quality and spec. 2, check/sort your entire gas system, in particular your gas tube protrusion?, your gas block, (leakage)?, alignment to the gas port in the barrel?, carrier key screws, tight?, etc etc. I wouldn't be going anywhere near your recoil system, buffer and spring, yet, other than to confirm that they are correct for the application. The BCG isn't even unlocking fully by what you have described, so not likely to be a problem with your buffer or spring, more likely an issue with the initial part of the extraction/ejection cycle, ie, unlocking and extraction, if you are having to pry the bolt open to extract the case/round then you have a serious issue with this part of the cycle, and again, this could well just be from your ammo choice. As for adjustable gas blocks, like 98 said, you don't need one for a functional rifle, once you get into suppressed DI guns then the need/want can be argued/justified, adjustable gas blocks are little more than a tuning device used to balance the gas system pressure to the 'direct blowback' effect that suppressors have on semi auto rifles which is what increases BCG speed, reducing the gas system pressure via an adjustable gas block simply balances this effect back to 'normal' BCG velocity. My 2c worth from the lower half of the planet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 I purchased a PA-10 308 a few years ago because they offered a 14.7 barrel upper with welded on flash hider. I also bought their matching lower for it. I already had a custom built AR-308 (Alexandria Arms) but it was heavier and I wanted a lighter rifle for Elk hunting. I'm a fan of the A-2 stocks so I never fired the PA-10 with the 6 position stock, spring, buffer, etc. I did some on-line searching and bought a 308 buffer and spring dubbed for the DPMS 308 platform and installed them with no other changes. The rifle functions flawlessly with any and all ammo I've ran thru it. This includes several boxes of PMC FMJ, Federal 150, Winchester 150 and hand loaded 150 grain hunting loads using Sierra bullets and IMR 4320. I settled on 175 grain Barnes hunting loads using Varget power and still flawless to date and zero failures to feed or eject. Not sure how this works into the problem, but I also installed the same parts into the custom built Alexandria Arms 308, and the DPMS that I got in a trade recently and converted to the A2 stock. All of these rifles function flawless with any ammo I've put thru them. They "dump" the brass consistently in the same area, and lock the bolt to the rear after the last round is fired. Haven't looked at gas tube length or gas block hole sizes so can't provide any details there. I was told that the Alexandria Arms 308 Upper was designed to use AR-15 part as far as the buffer/springs were concerned. I actually heard that AFTER installing DPMS 308 parts in it, but since I wasn't seeing any issues just going to leave it as-is unless something develops. As far as Palmetto Armory goes, they aren't free from defects in manufacturing or miss-matching/installing the incorrect parts on their uppers. I received an AR-47 upper from them a few years ago and it didn't work well at all. I discovered that they had installed inadvertently installed the wrong firing pin in the bolt. Having a lathe in my shop I modified the one they sent with it and complained hard enough for them to also send the correct one. I'd add here that they were very good to deal with (I've heard to the contrary a few times) and send the part I needed without question once I explained the issues in detail. I've had a few other minor issues, like leaving parts out of the lower build kits, and every time they sent what was missing without any grumbling, so very good customer service to date......Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf71 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 WOW..my thanks to all..this forum reminds me of the excellent group that I was a member of when building ak's was the rage..the akfiles.I am taking all of this to heart..I am now waiting on a new charging handle.I haven't taken any pix yet but from those I have viewed I have plenty of protrusion on the gas tube. With regards to ammo..I only have a little steel case.. I bought it to try in my 7.62x51 Ishie and my 1916 Spanish Mauser.I will not use any more in the PA10.I mostly want the rifle to function with 7.62x51 Nato since I don't hunt.I do reload 308 but am sticking with Hi dollar 308 until I get this sorted out. I will take some pix and count the coils on the recoil spring etc while I am down for parts.. Again..thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 I wished that I had joined the Forum BEFORE I built my rifles, and even though I was able to fudge my way thru a couple of builds (5 to date from scratch) I still have a lot to learn about these AR 308 platforms......Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Cliff R said: I wished that I had joined the Forum BEFORE I built my rifles, and even though I was able to fudge my way thru a couple of builds (5 to date from scratch) I still have a lot to learn about these AR 308 platforms......Cliff Glad you found it regardless. I have a friend that just ordered a bunch of 308 parts to build 3 rifles. I told him I wished he had mentioned he was going to do that sooner. He's already got a bunch in the mail and I hope he gets over here and starts reading immediately. These will be his first 308's and he's considering a creedmore in there as well. There's a ton of knowledge floating around this site and it gets better with every member who shows up. Nobody has every answer, but they've seen and fixed a lot of issues with builds here. Most of it falls back to the basics and once those are straight you can an least start making the modifications you want to have with the knowledge that you are starting from a solid platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
308kiwi Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 8 hours ago, seawolf71 said: I mostly want the rifle to function with 7.62x51 Nato since I don't hunt.I do reload 308 but am sticking with Hi dollar 308 until I get this sorted out. And that won't be a problem, but again you are going to want to stick with known quality 7.62x51 surplus. I have put close to 1K rounds of German M.E.N, brass cased, 147gr 7.62x51 surplus through my AR308 without a single issue, the rifle loves it but it is high quality ammo and that is key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
308kiwi Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 FWIW, if you are wanting to just shoot FMJ there are a couple of loads/brands I can recommend from experience... American Eagle, (Federal) 150gr FMJ 308W PMC FMJBT 147gr 308W I have used both of these brands extensively through my Aero M5 without issue, the PMC stuff in particular is very nice ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) I agree with all the above , be it the type or brand of ammo , the fact that PSA used 180 gr. Bullet loads for testing is for the extra recoil of the heavy Bullet , most don't use that heavy of a Load . As said, what 7.62 Nato ammo are you using , even some Brass cased fodder is a crap shoot & the Steel cased stuff can leave a Chamber fouled with just firing one round . If PSA fired 20 rd's & had not issues & if you believe them , it seems to be an ammo issue , with what you are using . I would scrub the Chamber with solvent & a bore brush & inspect it . When Lubricating , try not get any Lubricant in the Chamber , Lubricant in the Chamber can lock it up, also very lightly lube the Bolt Face , I normally use a very small dab of Grease on the Bolt Lugs of a new Build & I'm talking about a very small swipe on the leading edge of the Lugs , this may also help in unlocking , Mil Spec Grease if you have it , any Synthetic will work . Might also be a good idea to check the Chamber Head Space of the Rifle . Just so you know its good , also use a Case Head Space Gage for the Ammo you are Shooting , you would be surprised at how much ammo surplus or Nato ammo out there is out of spec for SAAMI specs for a 308 chamber & I'm pretty sure that PSA doesn't use an Nato Chamber on their Barrels . Edited December 21, 2018 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf71 Posted December 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 My new charging handle is on the way and I am gonna fight the holiday shoppers for 2 boxes of decent 308 ammo. ?will follow your tips and make a report next week. If I still have problems pic will follow happy holidays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearleft Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) My PA-10 was a little sticky on extraction. I used a 50 cal. muzzle loading brush and really cleaned the chamber, then wrapped the brush with a piece cloth and used metal polish on a battery drill. Night and difference. YMMV I'm going on 750 rounds with no issues. Dan Edited December 21, 2018 by bearleft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf71 Posted December 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Will try your idea as well what about the ppu m80 at aim surplus? i will order some if it is worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) I use privi partizen 168 match....its just about as as close to FGMM as you can get for bout 14 a box....its my go to ammo Wash its nice on recoil very accurate and if your weapon wont work on this you got probs.....I know certain barrels like certain loads/grains,but this stuff has never failed Edited December 21, 2018 by washguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed Eye Doc Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 FGMM 168gr and 175gr are $16.99 a box at Palmetto with free shipping over 10 boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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