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ar-mountaineer

New here - total novice

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Hello all, I’ve found this forum when I was researching my AR10 build. I lack considerable knowledge with building guns but my father in law has built many many AR15s. I have a 15 that was built by him. He will be teaching me all I need to know about actually milling out the 80% lower and assembling it all for the AR10. My wife and I have recently built a house out on the family farm. My current gun of choice for deer hunting is a 308 and is part of the reason why I want to build this AR10. Like I said, my father in law will help me physically build this thing but it is up to me to source all the components. He said that he doesn’t want to be to blame for it not fitting together like the AR15. He’s only half joking I hope. I have found out that the ar10 is not as easy to piece together. I very recently purchased a DPMS 80% lower and parts kit (don’t have it yet but it’s ordered). I figured I’d start with this since it will take the most work and then research some more to finish it all out. 

 

I know exactly what I want I just don’t know if it’s all going to work together. I know I have to stay with all dpms now, but is all dpms interchangeable between manufacturers?  

Ideally I want a 24” fluted bull barrel and rifle length buttstock. I have found the complete upper at moriarti armaments but I would really like to know if the one I found (dpms) would work with the dpms lower I’ve got coming.

 

I would appreciate any help you can send my way. 

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Welcome aboard!

First and foremost -- and I'm not trying to be "that guy" here, I promise -- you keep saying AR10 and DPMS. AR10 is a very specific pattern, and that is Armalite's pattern. DPMS LR-308 is a specific pattern, and is what you're building. Preferred terminology around here is .308 AR or "large frame AR" for generic use, or specific pattern names (i.e., LR-308) when it could possibly make a difference. Also, you have to be careful with DPMS... They released their "Gen II" or "GII" series of rifles a couple of years ago, and many parts don't interchange with LR-308 or "Gen I" parts.

With that out of the way, I would be willing to bet the 80% lower you have is DPMS LR-308 ("Gen I") compatible. I can't say I've seen any AR-10 80% lowers. Your Moriarti upper should work, no problem.

For your recoil/buffer system, your best bet is going to be picking up an Armalite AR-10 (I know, it's Armalite, but the recoil systems are cross-compatible) rifle-length system. It's all together, and it all works. Don't change a single part. https://www.armalite.com/product/ar-10-rifle-length-receiver-extension-kit-no-stock-ar10rekit02/ It shows to be out of stock right now, but sign up to get an e-mail notification and snag it quick.

Finally, and I know you weren't necessarily looking for input on your build, but what are you planning to do with this rifle? A 24" bull barrel is going to turn an already heavy beast into an even heavier b*tch. For bench work, no worries. But for walking, stalking, etc., you may be better served (and happier) going with a 16"-18" barrel.

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Welcome.

 

You're right to be asking those questions prior to purchase, because the 308's don't all play well together. 

Be careful because AR10 is specifically Armalite and IS a completely different pattern than DPMS. To complicate things, even manufactures mislabel parts as AR10 just because it's a 308. What lower did you buy and where did you get it. We'll start with that and move forward. 

 

Edit* some info may be redundant. He beat me to the reply button^^

Edited by DNP

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Welcome from Ky. Lots to read and learn here. 24" sounds like overkill to me but it is your rifle. My 20" bolt gun in 308 shoots 1/2 MOA when I do my part. These things are heavy as it is. Have fun with your new project.

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27 minutes ago, DNP said:

Welcome.

 

You're right to be asking those questions prior to purchase, because the 308's don't all play well together. 

Be careful because AR10 is specifically Armalite and IS a completely different pattern than DPMS. To complicate things, even manufactures mislabel parts as AR10 just because it's a 308. What lower did you buy and where did you get it. We'll start with that and move forward. 

 

Edit* some info may be redundant. He beat me to the reply button^^

I want to thank a previous poster on correcting my terminology, which just shows my noviceness. I got my lower from Daytona tactical. The lower parts kit was from the same site and the brand was cmmg. 

My hunting consists of going to my back deck and picking off deer, so no need to lug this gun anywhere, haha. My last deer consisted of me yelling at the deer and telling him I was going in to get my gun. My main purpose for this gun is fun out on the back 40 target shooting and for black bear protection around the house. I want this to be a steady, accurate shooter at long distances but about 350-400 yards would be my absolute max shot taken. Most shots will be steadied/braced in some fashion in the 100-200 yard range. My wife likes just sending off 30 rounds on the AR15 as fast as she can without really aiming at anything except the ground somewhere around the target. I have a feeling she won’t want to do this with the 308 if she even ever pulls the trigger on it due to its weight.

i want to make sure I get compatible parts bc this will ultimately be about a $1500 build.  

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If 400 yds is your Max then get a 16” barrel. Do not get a 24”, it will add about 4lbd to the front of your rifle, for no reason. 16” will get you to 700+ with no problem if you do your part.

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welcome aboard !    16 inches will do everything you want.....these things gather weight real easy and then there no fun in taking along for a hunt or fun shooting....build light...hold that thought thru your build....and don't make things complicated by buying weird 4hit that prolly wont work.....lets get this party started   :thumbup:   Wash

heres a deal for ya jump on this like now  I talked my buddy into one of these 2 weeks ago....its a handsome shootin damn nice nib bcg    https://www.acmemachine.com/acme-usa/acme-ar-308-ar-10-mil-spec-7-62-complete-bolt-carrier-group-nickel-boron/

you wont find a nib even close to this    yeah ACME   haahahaaa

Edited by washguy

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1 hour ago, washguy said:

welcome aboard !    16 inches will do everything you want.....these things gather weight real easy and then there no fun in taking along for a hunt or fun shooting....build light...hold that thought thru your build....and don't make things complicated by buying weird 4hit that prolly wont work.....lets get this party started   :thumbup:   Wash

heres a deal for ya jump on this like now  I talked my buddy into one of these 2 weeks ago....its a handsome shootin damn nice nib bcg    https://www.acmemachine.com/acme-usa/acme-ar-308-ar-10-mil-spec-7-62-complete-bolt-carrier-group-nickel-boron/

you wont find a nib even close to this    yeah ACME   haahahaaa

Thanks for that. Purchased. Reviews looked good. 

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1 hour ago, edgecrusher said:

If 400 yds is your Max then get a 16” barrel. Do not get a 24”, it will add about 4lbd to the front of your rifle, for no reason. 16” will get you to 700+ with no problem if you do your part.

I like to think I’m a pretty good shot (don’t we all). Upon doing my research (admittedly mostly on the internet) I’ve gained the information that a 308 round needs atleast 20” barrel to fully burn. Is that incorrect?  The person I most listen to regardless of what I read is my father in law. He is an over kill type of guy, kind of like, you never know what you will use this for. He’s the one who told me about going with the 24. I was going to go with a 20. He had a 20 inch bull barrel (no fluting) on an AR15 build. I hold that free hand much more steady than my 16” non bull barrel AR15. He also said the reason he doesn’t shoot that AR15 much is because of weight. 

Ideally this would be light weight and highly accurate. What kind of weight difference are we talking about (roughly) with a fluted bull barrel v non bull barrel. Anyone have any real world side by side comparison?

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You may need full burn to get out to a 1000yds and beyond, but you stated yourself that your not even going past half of that. 16 “ barrels are proven to 700 yds and beyond. You can save tons of weight by getting a lighter profile than a bull barrel, which, now I need to ask why you want one in that profile? It’s heavy and offers little benefit in a hunting rifle or target rifle your using “shooting off the back deck”. If you aren’t a bench rest guy it won’t matter.

 

BTW, you may want to research Moriarti before you buy from them. I would recommend against it.

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https://faxonfirearms.com/16-big-gunner-308-win-mid-length-4150-nitride/

 

I feel like this here will more than meet your needs at a reasonable price. But it is your rifle, and ultimately I understand it there is a look your going for. I’m just trying to make it a little easier to live with. Little things will be the difference between a 15lb rifle unloaded without glass and a 7.5lb rifle. 

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1 minute ago, ar-mountaineer said:

I like to think I’m a pretty good shot (don’t we all). Upon doing my research (admittedly mostly on the internet) I’ve gained the information that a 308 round needs atleast 20” barrel to fully burn. Is that incorrect?  The person I most listen to regardless of what I read is my father in law. He is an over kill type of guy, kind of like, you never know what you will use this for. He’s the one who told me about going with the 24. I was going to go with a 20. He had a 20 inch bull barrel (no fluting) on an AR15 build. I hold that free hand much more steady than my 16” non bull barrel AR15. He also said the reason he doesn’t shoot that AR15 much is because of weight. 

Ideally this would be light weight and highly accurate. What kind of weight difference are we talking about (roughly) with a fluted bull barrel v non bull barrel. Anyone have any real world side by side comparison?

Having had a 24" fluted SS bull barrel on a previously owned DPMS LR-308, I fully endorse the 16" recommendation, or if you're concerned about the what-ifs, 18" or 18.5" either one.

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I also believe that a  16-18 inch barrel is the most you will need in your situation.  I have a stock Rock River LAR8 (308) with a 16 inch barrel.  It has nothing special but their match trigger (not that special).  I was routinely hitting steel at 650 yards with it last fall.  I can hit 300 yards while standing without using a rest most of the time.

I purchased a 7.62X39 AR kit from Moriarti a couple of years ago.  I had no issues with them at the time.  My ability to recognize and desire to buy better parts points me in different directions now.

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9 minutes ago, edgecrusher said:

You may need full burn to get out to a 1000yds and beyond, but you stated yourself that your not even going past half of that. 16 “ barrels are proven to 700 yds and beyond. You can save tons of weight by getting a lighter profile than a bull barrel, which, now I need to ask why you want one in that profile? It’s heavy and offers little benefit in a hunting rifle or target rifle your using “shooting off the back deck”. If you aren’t a bench rest guy it won’t matter.

 

BTW, you may want to research Moriarti before you buy from them. I would recommend against it.

Thanks for the heads up about moriarti. In what I’ve found just by comparing prices they seem higher than just about everyone out there. As for the barrel you linked to, I’m looking for a fully assembled complete upper. I will discuss going to a shorter barrel with my father in law. He’s the one who put the 24” barrel in my head. He said if I want to make it a usable rifle for all situations than that’s what I want. The hard part was finding a complete upper with a 24” barrel. All I could basically find was the bull barrel. So I started researching it. I’m open to non bull barrels.  I’ve searched for days for a dpms .750 gas block complete upper in a 24 inch and came up with very few results. 20 inch seems common. I’m not going to say price is no object but I want the best build for me. I only want to build it once and want to not regret a purchase. I call my back deck my hunting blind, the deer pay no attention to you if you are on it, but the second you step off then they are gone. Same with being on the tractor, I can run it for hours and get off of it, throw rocks at the deer but if I just try to walk to them without the tractor they are gone.

Heres my obligatory AR15 pic

 

657E745F-C3B2-42E0-AD9B-536D0BA35E11.jpeg

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8 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

Having had a 24" fluted SS bull barrel on a previously owned DPMS LR-308, I fully endorse the 16" recommendation, or if you're concerned about the what-ifs, 18" or 18.5" either one.

I love hearing the experience of someone that has had one. Definitely food for thought. What were your hang ups about it? Just the weight or was there something else you didn’t like about it or did you just simply like the shorter barrel just that much more?

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4 minutes ago, ar-mountaineer said:

I love hearing the experience of someone that has had one. Definitely food for thought. What were your hang ups about it? Just the weight or was there something else you didn’t like about it or did you just simply like the shorter barrel just that much more?

It was too long, unwieldy, too heavy, too inaccurate, and held residual heat for way too long.

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I had a bull barrel for a week....lol......Someone has gotta say it but wont....your fatherinlaw is prolly a very nice person,but he doesn't know crap about ar's and especially AR308's.....Ill only say this once....full burn?  okay sure thing  :laffs:  heres a compromise and its match grade maybe a lil heavy but an awesome barrel pricey though https://www.primaryarms.com/criterion-barrels-.308-m118-16-hybrid-mid-length-chrome-lined       and you can tell Fatherinlaw that this barrel can shoot .308 win or .762 nato type ammo.... put your money into barrels and triggers....   :thumbup:   Wash

nice barrel satin stainless https://ballisticadvantage.com/16-inch-308-tacgov-mid-ss-premium-barrel.html

check this one  match 16 inch less money good barrel  https://veriforcetactical.com/product/ar-308-16-inch-308-win-qpq-crmov-nitride-match-barrel/

Oh you are gonna buy a whole upper already put together? no way....:laffs:  we will help you put it together....get the lower /upper set and a handguard and a fixture and you can have any barrel and handguard you want  ....theres some rails that are out that can save you some bucks.....

oh wait...you have an 80 percent lower already?  are you a machinist ? 

Edited by washguy

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29 minutes ago, ar-mountaineer said:

 I will discuss going to a shorter barrel with my father in law. He’s the one who put the 24” barrel in my head. He said if I want to make it a usable rifle for all situations than that’s what I want. 

 

Well I have to disagree wholeheartedly with this. Because this:

 

20 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

It was too long, unwieldy, too heavy, too inaccurate, and held residual heat for way too long.

Now the last two bits I can’t comment on, but I have shot with this fine gentleman and many others here on this site. We have done speed, precision at ranges from 100-1000yds. The is several members here who either currently or in a previous career rely on weapons daily for their profession. If you told me that my next patrol shift included a 24” barreled rifle of any type, I would leave it home.

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9 minutes ago, washguy said:

I had a bull barrel for a week....lol......Someone has gotta say it but wont....your fatherinlaw is prolly a very nice person,but he doesn't know crap about ar's and especially AR308's.....Ill only say this once....full burn?  okay sure thing  :laffs:  heres a compromise and its match grade maybe a lil heavy but an awesome barrel pricey though https://www.primaryarms.com/criterion-barrels-.308-m118-16-hybrid-mid-length-chrome-lined       and you can tell Fatherinlaw that this barrel can shoot .308 win or .762 nato type ammo.... put your money into barrels and triggers....   :thumbup:   Wash

nice barrel satin stainless https://ballisticadvantage.com/16-inch-308-tacgov-mid-ss-premium-barrel.html

He fully admits he doesn’t know much about the 308 build which is why he sent me out to figure it out, haha. I see your links to what I am sure are very fine barrels. But I am looking for a complete dpms upper already assembled. I don’t want to go through that assembly plus I’m not sure about the tools. Complete novice here, remember. I’ll get help with the 80% lower to make it functional and the assembly of the parts kit.

Here would be my task for anyone who would accept it (mainly bc I’ve failed in my attempt so far). If you were building a very high grade of dpms 308 what parts would you put on it. At this point I have more money than brains in regards to this. 

I have the 80% lower and parts kit and apparently the NiB BCG bc I bought it as referenced in this thread.

I need a complete upper (barrel -let’s go 18-20”-hand guard, gas block etc already installed), charging handle, buffer parts, and buttstock (prefer rifle length with adjustable chin rest). Budget of let’s say $1200 for the stuff I don’t have. I’ll handle the glass separate. 

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8 minutes ago, ar-mountaineer said:

He fully admits he doesn’t know much about the 308 build which is why he sent me out to figure it out, haha.

Then tell him to respect what you come up with, even if it's "not what HE thinks is ideal."  Shut him down with information.  24" bull barrel .308AR is gonna be ONE HEAVY PIG that you don't want to carry anywhere - including from the car to the shooting bench. 

For 400 yards, you can very easily dothat, accurately,with a 16" barrel.  However, throw the FIL a bone here and just get this:

https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5e1-308-20in-cmv-complete-upper

 

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21 minutes ago, edgecrusher said:

Well I have to disagree wholeheartedly with this. Because this:

 

Now the last two bits I can’t comment on, but I have shot with this fine gentleman and many others here on this site. We have done speed, precision at ranges from 100-1000yds. The is several members here who either currently or in a previous career rely on weapons daily for their profession. If you told me that my next patrol shift included a 24” barreled rifle of any type, I would leave it home.

You all are very convincing about ditching the 24 inch bull barrel. This is why I came looking for help. I absolutely would not be using this for my job and dont plan on getting in any gun fights. Not my choice for home protection. I guess I have these delusions of being able to hit those super far shots. A shot of a 1000 yards is unfathomable to me. Really you hit that and aren’t some kind of sniper?  I’d love to be able to practice to become that good. We’ve got 120 acres to play around with a high wall but it is more grown up where we live and have a 300+ acre farm an hour away to play on way way out in the country with open pastures. I just want a semi auto 308 for the possible black bear run in (I’ve had a few cubs run through my back yard and never saw mama, while neighbors had them on cam), occasional deer shot and to practice being a great long range shot. Everyone wants to hit that long range shot. 

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7 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Then tell him to respect what you come up with, even if it's "not what HE thinks is ideal."  Shut him down with information.  24" bull barrel .308AR is gonna be ONE HEAVY PIG that you don't want to carry anywhere - including from the car to the shooting bench. 

For 400 yards, you can very easily dothat, accurately,with a 16" barrel.  However, throw the FIL a bone here and just get this:

https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5e1-308-20in-cmv-complete-upper

 

That is the exact one I started out this whole build wanting to get. Then got derailed with the 24” talk. But here in lies my problem. AP didn’t have an 80% lower (that I saw) and I have no clue if it would fit a dpms lower. When looking at other sites it seemed like the AeroPrecision was compatible with dpms. If you know otherwise, that would make me happy

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