Rocky1776 Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 I am a total newbe to 308 ARs, and ARs in general. I am about to purchase a Windham Weaponry 308 AR, and I need all the advice I can get. I want a 20" barrel and a gas block with a bayonet mount. WW says I can have one or the other, but not both at the same time. Of course I need the bayonet in case I run out of ammo before the zombies reach me... Anyway, I'm not finding much in the way of 308 ARs with bayonet mounts. Am I sol, or is there some aftermarket solution that will be compatible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 20 minutes ago, Rocky1776 said: I am a total newbe to 308 ARs, and ARs in general. I am about to purchase a Windham Weaponry 308 AR, and I need all the advice I can get. I want a 20" barrel and a gas block with a bayonet mount. WW says I can have one or the other, but not both at the same time. Of course I need the bayonet in case I run out of ammo before the zombies reach me... Anyway, I'm not finding much in the way of 308 ARs with bayonet mounts. Am I sol, or is there some aftermarket solution that will be compatible? Welcome to the forums! I have yet to encounter my first bayonet compatible large AR, but most anything you can dream is possible, it just gets expensive eventually. Anyway, make yourself right at home, jump right in there and mix it up with these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 Why not a full (or near full) barrel length handrail; and a bayonet on the bottom of the rail? Not sure if you wanted a bi-pod too. Welcome indeed. What's your reasoning on the 20" barrel? I have a long barrel on my 7.62x39 build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky1776 Posted February 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 35 minutes ago, Lane said: Why not a full (or near full) barrel length handrail; and a bayonet on the bottom of the rail? Not sure if you wanted a bi-pod too. Welcome indeed. What's your reasoning on the 20" barrel? I have a long barrel on my 7.62x39 build. That might solve the problem. I didn't know that was an option. The difference might not be much, but my understanding is that with a longer barrel, the velocity is greater, the blast and recoil is less, the sight radius is longer for back up flip up sights, and bayonets work better on a longer stick. Short barrels might be better for carrying, and be less cumbersome in the brush, but that won't be an issue on the range, or anywhere someone wants to take a longer shot. If you want to clear a room, get an M4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 Sounds like you got this covered sir. I toyed with those numbers a while back, and decided on a long barrel by accident. I don't regret it for a minute; and that last build balances perfectly in my left hand, (right handed shooter). You can mount rail attachments if needed; or just bolt on the component you need. I don't shy away from drilling or cutting a rail to make something work; that what makes it unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 Welcome from Mass. You would be surprised what little gain you actually get from the added length. Sure, you may get + 150 FPS from 16” to 20”, or + 150fps from 20” to 24”, but at the cost of several pounds at the end of the barrel where you’ll feel it most. You state it’s a range toy so that may not matter. To address recoil a brake and a heavy buffer will manage ghat much better than extra inches on your barrel length. ill admit you lost me on the bayonet for a rifle you have no intention on wielding other than bench shooting or “anywhere someone wants to take a long shot”. I get it if you want it for looks, nothing wrong with that if it’s what you like. But there’s no practical reason for what you described your intentions for the rifle. A fully loaded rifle rifle with a 20” barrel and magnified optics will be a 13-15 lb rifle. Add more length to your barrel or handguard and it’s more lbs. Just something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 Welcome from Iowa. via Missouri! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky1776 Posted February 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 14 hours ago, edgecrusher said: To address recoil a brake and a heavy buffer will manage ghat much better than extra inches on your barrel length. ill admit you lost me on the bayonet for a rifle you have no intention on wielding other than bench shooting or “anywhere someone wants to take a long shot”. I get it if you want it for looks, nothing wrong with that if it’s what you like. But there’s no practical reason for what you described your intentions for the rifle. The zombies! ;-) Iirc, the original AR 10 had a 20” barrel, and I am sure it had a bayonet. So it’s an AR 10 clone with optics capability, like an M16A4 with more range and power, or an SR25 that you can still use when over run. I won’t need it. My grandchildren might. Mostly it’s one more feature to annoy authoritarians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Rocky1776 said: Mostly it’s one more feature to annoy authoritarians. This I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 There's a height difference (height over bore centerline) between .308ARs and AR15s. The Front Sight Base with bayonet lug os made for the AR15s/M16s/M4s. As far as I know, there isn't a company out there making a front sight base for .308ARs, which would require it to be taller than the AR15 part. Hence, the information that "you can't do that" is probably true, but it wasn't given to you with an explanation as to "why." If you built your .308AR with a 20" barrel, DPMS-based rifle gas system, and a .750" diameter gas block area, then you could install an AR15 front sight base - but you'd never be able to use that, with a flip-up rear sight on a .308AR. WAY different sight planes. It would be off exactly the difference between the height over bore of an AR15 and the height over bore of a .308AR. The only cure that I know of, for you, is a very, very specific mount, made by Geissele. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky1776 Posted February 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) That is very interesting, but it also looks extremely bulky and massive. ? I'm thinking about welding a mount onto the bottom of the gas block that comes with the rifle. I'll have to see if the geometry works out for that, and if I can get someone to do it for a reasonable price. Edited February 15, 2019 by Rocky1776 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Rocky1776 said: That is very interesting, but it also looks extremely bulky and massive. ? I'm thinking about welding a mount onto the bottom of the gas block that comes with the rifle. I'll have to see if the geometry works out for that, and if I can get someone to do it for a reasonable price. Armalite made a simple solution, last one I saw belongs to me now; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky1776 Posted February 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 I just found this: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/gas-system-parts/gas-system-hardware/modular-gas-block-lug-prod26332.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky1776 Posted February 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 hours ago, 98Z5V said: There's a height difference (height over bore centerline) between .308ARs and AR15s. The Front Sight Base with bayonet lug os made for the AR15s/M16s/M4s. As far as I know, there isn't a company out there making a front sight base for .308ARs, which would require it to be taller than the AR15 part. Hence, the information that "you can't do that" is probably true, but it wasn't given to you with an explanation as to "why." If you built your .308AR with a 20" barrel, DPMS-based rifle gas system, and a .750" diameter gas block area, then you could install an AR15 front sight base - but you'd never be able to use that, with a flip-up rear sight on a .308AR. WAY different sight planes. It would be off exactly the difference between the height over bore of an AR15 and the height over bore of a .308AR. Actually, Windham Weaponry did say that their gas block with the bayonet lug was drilled differently than the one used on their 20 inch barrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 7 hours ago, edgecrusher said: 9 hours ago, Rocky1776 said: Mostly it’s one more feature to annoy authoritarians. This I get. This is why I think it's a great idea... I live in a state where duct taping a knife to my gun makes it an illegal assault weapon. As if bringing a mounted knife to a distance gun fight is really going to be a problem. Go figure. I assume you want one that flips out based on your initial inquiry? That Geissele mount does look bulky, but shouldn't be all that heavy. Since I can't have a bayonet here; I haven't researched this at all. I don't know that you'll find a lot of people that want to weld a hand rail. You could modify some rail attachment parts and bolt them on for mounting something unusual on the rail as opposed to using the gas block. Your milage may vary; but I am certainly curious to see what you end up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Welcome from wisconsin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/14/2019 at 11:31 PM, Rocky1776 said: Actually, Windham Weaponry did say that their gas block with the bayonet lug was drilled differently than the one used on their 20 inch barrels. And...did they tell you WHY that is?... What was their explanation on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Welcome aboard from Maryland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky1776 Posted February 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 20 hours ago, 98Z5V said: And...did they tell you WHY that is?... What was their explanation on that? I don't think the salesman I was talking to said anything more specific. He had to check with the factory to even tell me that the gas block used on their 16" wouldn't work on the 20' barrel that I wanted, so he was just a messenger. He did say it would work on their 18" barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted February 18, 2019 Report Share Posted February 18, 2019 I’m guessing that is because the barrel profiles are different, no other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Welcome from Indiana brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolf McQuade Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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