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Cunuckgaucho

6.5 Grendal Recipies

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Having succumbed to peer pressure from here I now find myself with a partially built 6.5 Grendal and brass on the way. It is not a common caliber up here and commercial ammo is non existent and brass rare.

So I have a 20"  1:8 twist heavy profile barrel and looking a starting point as to bullet(weight, type,brand) and powder(brand, grain load). 

 Thank in advance

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My Grendel load is pretty simple.  Hornady brass, CCI 41 primers, 28.5gr AA 2520 powder. I seat them to 2.260", then run them all through the Lee Factory Crimp die in another process.

I built that load on the first 18" Grendel.  After I built the 12.5", I thought that load was hot, and my next accuracy node down was 27.5gr.  After the 3rd, 4th, and 5th Grendel, I realized that those were not pressure signs I was seeing on my original load - that's just what happens in these things.  I decided to move my load back up to 28.5gr, after chrono testing through these guns.  After looking at it, it's easy to see what happened between the two loads, between the 16" and 18".

27.5gr AA 2520:

12.5" // 2250 // 2259 // 2236 // 2225 // 2225 = 2239 AVG

16" // 2389 // 2381 // 2387 = 2385 AVG

18" // 2320 // 2312 // 2299 // 2310 // 2306 // 2310 // 2311 = 2309 AVG

16" beat the 18" by 76fps?!!?   WTF?!!?

28.5gr AA 2520:

12.5" // 2367 // 2358 // 2381 // 2373 // 2312 = 2369 AVG

16" // 2460 // 2485 // 2468 // 2488 = 2475 AVG

18" // 2516 // 2542 // 2534 // 2531 // 2537 = 2534 AVG

That's why that damn 16" was doing so well, compared to the 18" that I was used to.  The 16" was outperforming it, at 27.5gr.  That must have been a great barrel length for a 16" barrel, but in the 18", it had already burned up all 27.5gr before the bullet even exited - and the projos were slowing down trying to get out of the barrel.

Overall, the 28.5gr load is much better, in all barrel lengths that I have.  It picked up speed everywhere, that's another accuracy node (the original node that I found), and it got that 18" back on track to where it should be. 

Start maybe a half grain under, for the 20", and just work up.  Or, just start at 27.5 and work up. You'll see when it comes together. 

Edited by 98Z5V

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Thanks,

Turns out Accurate isn't a common powder up here and only one place(Quebec) list 2520 but out of stock. Up here Hodgdon,IMR and Alliant are the easy to find powders. I'll have to see what's close to 2520.

What bullet are you using?

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6 minutes ago, Cunuckgaucho said:

What bullet are you using?

FUK ME!   I left that out!...  :bitchslap: :lmao:  Hornady 123 ELD-M, only. 

 

Edited by 98Z5V

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20 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

FUK ME!   I left that out!...  :bitchslap: :lmao:  Hornady 123 ELD-M, only. 

 

 Well as long as you point the barrel up the powder doesn't fall out...

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35 minutes ago, Belt Fed said:

What's a good factory load, I really don't care for the fusions.

Hornady Black and American Gunner are both outstanding.

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3 hours ago, Matt.Cross said:

Hornady Black and American Gunner are both outstanding.

Hornady Black loaded ammo is the 123 ELD-M projectile, and what I've tried to duplicate with my handloads. I'm so damn close it's not even funny, too.  Hornady American Gunner is a 120gr HPBT projectile that is not offered by Hornady, as a projectile - they only load it and make it for the 6.5 Grendel American Gunner loaded ammo.

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17 hours ago, Belt Fed said:

Cool, Hornady Black it is. SG ammo has BTHP and Match, which one is best for white tail deer.

Whatever works on hogs will slay a deer.  Pay attention to this guy's YT channel - Carpe Sus.  He's a hog dropper for sure, so what he says on ammo - he's already done on hogs.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG6la_HDvAobPBTDtj5B-lQ

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 So it looks like I found the only 2lbs of 2520 in the country and getting it shipped from back east.

The lowest weight ELD I found was 130gr so got those along with Sierra Matchking in 120gr

Found one source of brass(Starline) so that's inbound. Waiting to hear back from ATF/ITAR on bringing back 6.5Grendel brass into Canada.

While searching I also bought another bolt action .22, assorted magazines...this is probably why people keep saying reloading doesn't save you money.

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I use 27 grains of H335 behind a 123 grain Hornady A-Max or SST. The A-Max seems to shoot a bit flatter but I've noticed no difference in accuracy between the two.

I love this little cartridge, it punches above it's weight

 

Regards,

Mark

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On 7/28/2019 at 8:32 PM, Cunuckgaucho said:

 So it looks like I found the only 2lbs of 2520 in the country and getting it shipped from back east.

The lowest weight ELD I found was 130gr so got those along with Sierra Matchking in 120gr

Found one source of brass(Starline) so that's inbound. Waiting to hear back from ATF/ITAR on bringing back 6.5Grendel brass into Canada.

While searching I also bought another bolt action .22, assorted magazines...this is probably why people keep saying reloading doesn't save you money.

Can you bring some of these components across the border when you come to the states?  While you are here, you might be able to stock up on some things you are having trouble locating and carry it back.  Powder could likely be a problem as well as primers. 

It all depends on import and export laws and I confess to not knowing those very well.

Edited by Armed Eye Doc

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3 hours ago, Mark Hartig said:

I use 27 grains of H335 behind a 123 grain Hornady A-Max or SST. The A-Max seems to shoot a bit flatter but I've noticed no difference in accuracy between the two.

I love this little cartridge, it punches above it's weight

 

Regards,

Mark

Thanks that powder is reasonably easy to find. The 6.5CR popular up here not the 6.5Grendel so bullets available up here tend to go 130gr and up.I can get my Hornady guy to bring me in 123gr.

36 minutes ago, Armed Eye Doc said:

Can you bring some of these components across the border when you come to the states?  While you are here, you might be able to stock up on some things you are having trouble locating and carry it back.  Powder could likely be a problem as well as primers. 

It all depends on import and export laws and I confess to not knowing those very well.

The importing into Canada is not the issue. Placed an order with Brownell's then 2 days later informed me 

"The order you have placed with us requires an export license issued by the Dept. of State. An export license is required if the order contains a regulated item.

Regulated items must have an export license regardless of their value or quantities. Regulated items are: barrels, barrel liners, actions, receivers, frames, cylinders, flash hiders/suppressors. Also brass/bullets.

Also our Dept. of State requires an export license if the collective value of the gun component parts are $500.00 or more.

The export license application fee is now a flat rate of $250.00 regardless of the dollar value or quantities."

 I didn't think brass was regulated :embarrassed:  and would have been good under the $500 rule. This also means trying to take anything out of the USA on the regulated list has some severe penalties. So for now it means @98Z5V 6.5Grendel brass is safe(for now) :hornet:

 I'll wait for an order through my importer that requires a permit as he'll file a single permit for a number of us and we share the permit cost.

 There are some weird things with ITAR and in some cases the labeling of the same item in two different ways means one can be exported the other not.

 AR upper/lower castings unmachined which can be bought over the counter by anyone is considered a controlled item if one ties to export them 


 

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3 hours ago, Cunuckgaucho said:

 So for now it means @98Z5V 6.5Grendel brass is safe(for now) :hornet:

You're not getting my Grendel brass, brother.  I have five Grendel-kids to feed here...   :laffs:

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On 7/24/2019 at 8:35 PM, 98Z5V said:

 

 it had already burned up all 27.5gr before the bullet even exited - and the projos were slowing down trying to get out of the barrel.

 

I'm surprised you didn't get anyone to argue with that statement! Hitting maximum speed at 16" and loosing speed for 2" is unusual for sure. I would expect a huge SD if that was happening. Curious if other factors were involved. For example, admittedly not apples to apples, but  I can use some of the fastest burning pistol powders out there and bullets are still faster out of carbine length barrels over pistol length barrels. Yes, I'll admit I don't load or shoot that 6.5 caliber, still interesting...

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7 minutes ago, Albroswift said:

I'm surprised you didn't get anyone to argue with that statement! Hitting maximum speed at 16" and loosing speed for 2" is unusual for sure. I would expect a huge SD if that was happening. Curious if other factors were involved. For example, admittedly not apples to apples, but  I can use some of the fastest burning pistol powders out there and bullets are still faster out of carbine length barrels over pistol length barrels. Yes, I'll admit I don't load or shoot that 6.5 caliber, still interesting...

Only way to explain why, repeatedly, that the 16" was outperforming the 18" at 27.5 grains of AA2520.   Once I bumped it back up to 28.5 grains of AA2520, speed increased across all barrel lengths, and the 18" was outperforming the 16" at that point, as it should have all along.  The difference in the two barrels was length and gas system.  Both barrels are Ballistic Advantage SPR profile barrels, the 16" is a Mk12 Mod H profile barrel with Midlength gas, the the 18" is true Mk12 Mod 0 or Mod 1 profile, Rifle gas.

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But no cycling issues with the rifle length gas system and 27.5 grains, correct? So you hit upon a load that has enough pressure to operate the longer gas system but not enough to maintain acceleration much past it. Out of curiosity, total waste of time, but it would be interesting to ladder up  27.6, 27.7, 27.8...keep going up 0.1 gr at a time until the 18" velocity passed the 16" with the original 27.5 gr. Then go the other way with the 16" until it was slower then the 27.5 in the 18". Could tell a lot about that powder characteristic. Or not. :fullauto:

Edited by Albroswift

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16 hours ago, Albroswift said:

But no cycling issues with the rifle length gas system and 27.5 grains, correct? So you hit upon a load that has enough pressure to operate the longer gas system but not enough to maintain acceleration much past it. Out of curiosity, total waste of time, but it would be interesting to ladder up  27.6, 27.7, 27.8...keep going up 0.1 gr at a time until the 18" velocity passed the 16" with the original 27.5 gr. Then go the other way with the 16" until it was slower then the 27.5 in the 18". Could tell a lot about that powder characteristic. Or not. :fullauto:

I did all that, building the load.  I went as high as I could go on that original 18" gun (first Grendel) and made the load. Accuracy node at 28.5gr // AA2520.  After that, I saw some pretty severe pressure signs before I hit the next accuracy node, so I stopped and called it there.  Next Grendel that was up was the 12.5" build, and it was a beast.  I thought I saw pressure signs with the exact same load (already had my load, so test it in the new short gun).  At that point, I backed the load down to the next lower accuracy node, and that was 27.5gr // AA2520.  I thought I was running hot ammo before, so I backed it down.  Next node was exactly 1.0 full grain lower (original 18" gun).  Then I built another Grendel, a lighter 18" gun over the original Mk12-ish heavy gun.  27.5 did good, brass still looked like the first 28.5 loads I made.  Then I built a 16" M4 Grendel - brass was the same.  Then I built a 16" Mk12 Mod H Grendel - brass looked the same. 

When @Matt.Cross and I had the chance to run our 18" Grendels (his is a Mk12 Mod 1, and mine is Mk12-ish) through a chrono, with HIM running factory Hornady Black ammo - he was smoking me by 150fps...   WTF...    At that point, I re-looked all my brass pics, load data, and reloaded some of those original 28.5s again, and ran them through the same chrono.

Lo and behold - the numbers I reported above.  It wasn't pressure signs I was seeing, with all 5 Grendels doing the same thing to brass - it's just what Grendels do to brass.

I'm back on 28.5 grains, and it's worth it.

There's no need for me to go back and reload everything up again, between 27.5 and 28.5 - I've already done that in the original load development.  I'm not concerned about what load charge the 18" passes up the 16", on the way up again, because the accuracy between 27.5 and 28.5 was garbage.  For me, that's just gonna be a waste of powder and projectiles - and time.  :thumbup:

There were zero cycling issues on any of the 5 Grendels, from 27.5 through 28.5.  None. 

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