TEC Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 I am trying to decide between a .308 or 6.5 Creedmore complete AR type rifle. The proclaimed 30% less recoil of the 6.5 interests me but it seems those rifles all have 20"+ barrels which makes them heavier than a .308 with a 16" barrel. I like the price and weight of the .308 Diamondback and DPMS Oracle. I'm new here and would appreciate your comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 What are you going to use it for? And you could always rebarrel a 6.5 to an 18 inch or 16 inch barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunuckgaucho Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 Or just get both... Other option is buy one complete rifle first( suggestions based on perceived use)then buy/build another upper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEC Posted November 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 I will use it for deer and hogs under 300 yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 Get a 308W first ! The ammo is cheaper !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 12 hours ago, Cunuckgaucho said: Or just get both... Other option is buy one complete rifle first( suggestions based on perceived use)then buy/build another upper. Brilliant...or go .308 to .260 Rem.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcnut Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 I thought long and hard over this a couple years back, and then decided to go with the 6.5 CM. built mine and it came in at 8.4 lbs with out scope. I have a 18in BSF carbon wrapped barrel that is a 1/2 MOA all day. took it out this weekend deer hunting and got a deer at 153 paces running with one shot. dropped it in its tracks with a 143 ELDX. cannot say enough about my 6.5 CM. yes it has less recoil, yes ammo is getting more available, and stays super sonic at longer ranges. the 308 is a great round and has been around for a long time. you cannot go wrong with either round, just have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 18 hours ago, TEC said: I will use it for deer and hogs under 300 yds. Either one will do the job nicely at those ranges. The Creedmore gives you more room to grow into long distance shooting, the .308 lets you shoot mil surp ammo if you want to plink. Best idea, buy or build both. Then you will fit in quickly around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 I shoot 6.5 CM all the time from 100 to 1200 yards I have a 308 I have killed many elk and deer etc with it of the two I prefer to shoot the 6.5 it is a sweet caliber... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEC Posted November 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 I would lean toward the CM if there were some reliable lightweight AR style rifles with 16" barrels in the DPMS Oracle/Diamondback price range. I guess the CM needs longer barrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, TEC said: I guess the CM needs longer barrels. That completely depends in your intended use. You don't need a long barrel to get some decent distance, especially with the 6.5mm projectiles. I have a 12.5" barreled 6.5 Grendel that will hit the targets at 850 yards, in open ground. If you're hunting 300 yards, it's just your hunting grounds that determine that. Thick brush, open areas - and all in between. I'd go with the 6.5mm projectiles all day long, unless it was heavy brush. If that was the case, I'd shoot some HEAVY .308 loads through that heavy brush. If that heavy brush was the main game and all I did, I'd just make a .338 federal, load up some Hornady 225gr SSTs and be done with it. It's all in what you intend to do with it, and what you expect it to do for you. You have to be realistic about all these builds, and be honest with what you intend it to do, primarily. Edited November 27, 2019 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 well said..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 There is really no such thing as "brush" busting when it comes to projectiles. Anything of significant size hit before the target will send it off course. I've missed bucks at close range with 12 gauge rifled slugs and .54 caliber muzzle loaders with HEAVY Thompson Center cast lead Maxi-Balls weighing over 400 grains in low light conditions because I didn't see a little sapling or small limb between us when I touched the round off. REAL bummer once after hiking up a mountain in the dark about 3000' and had a HUGE buck run up on me quickly at first light. Hit a little Laurel branch that I didn't see and clean missed him at 35 yards. To this day I think back about that hunt and can't believe that little tiny branch caused a complete miss. Anyhow, my vote is for 308. It's a very efficient round, readily available over the counter if/as needed, and scores of really good bullet choices. My "go-to" hunting load is the Barnes 175 grain bullet backed by Varget, around 42 grains nearly as I can remember. That load just flat shoots good in every 308 rifle I own, as well as the ones I built for my brother, nephew and son-in-law. Very few 5 shot groups have went out past 1" at 100 yards in all those rifles and not uncommon at all to have the first 2 or 3 rounds nearly in the same hole till things heat up some. I'd also mention that it's pretty "flat" out to 300 yards without any hold-over if you have things doped in at closer ranges and a reasonable mounting height above the barrel with your optics........Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEC Posted November 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 I mentioned that the CM must require longer barrels because I don't see it in complete AR rifles with 16" barrels. There are plenty in .308. I walk a lot with my rifles so weight is important to me. I am questioning the rifles not the caliber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, TEC said: I mentioned that the CM must require longer barrels because I don't see it in complete AR rifles with 16" barrels. There are plenty in .308. I walk a lot with my rifles so weight is important to me. I am questioning the rifles not the caliber. You can have a custom barrel made, and a 16" Creedmoor would do well. Wilson Combat has four different Match 16" 6.5 Creedmoor barrels available right now, and on sale. https://shopwilsoncombat.com/65-Creedmoor/products/963/ Buy a 16" .308 Win AR, complete, then pick that Wilson Combat barrel up - and build another upper. Best of both worlds, right there. Edited November 28, 2019 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 "I walk a lot with my rifles so weight is important to me. I am questioning the rifles not the caliber." Weight is also a BIG deal for me as I walk many miles on our hunts out West and almost always over 10,000' and carry a decent amount of gear in my pack. I went with a 14.7" barrel on my 308 AR in a lighter profile. I had already dumped over $1000 on a custom build without even thinking (or knowing) about how much heavier the AR-10 platforms are to the AR-15. I got the upper from Alexandria Arms and with an 18" barrel (heavier profile) and full length hand guard. Nice rifle, shoots well but I'd have to hire a guide to carry it for me, it is heavy and not well balanced. PSA offered an upper with a 14.7" light profile barrel with short hand guard and it's night at day difference, lighter and balance is much better. Also keep in mind with any barrel length and same profile, the bigger the hole bored in it the lighter it's going to be. I have an AR-15 Match Rifle here in 223/Wylde with a full length heavy barrel and it's a brute. I had thoughts after retiring in 2003 of doing some competition shooting but gave up on that idea so it just takes up room in the safe, to heavy and awkward to use for anything else......Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Cliff R said: Weight is also a BIG deal for me as I walk many miles on our hunts out West and almost always over 10,000' and carry a decent amount of gear in my pack. Damn, Cliff - you've got some badass altitude on your side up there, ballistically-speaking. At altitude like that, you can get bullets to do impossible things, that they could never, ever do closer to sea level. That's awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 I'm usually too tired to shoot one once I walk in a couple of miles, and then there's the having to pack it out deal. Hunting public land in Colorado for out-of-staters is a crap shoot anyhow. Not really much skill involved, you just need to go up high, and pack in a ways. Bagging a bull Elk on or near the access roads is like a winning lottery ticket....LOL.....Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsonboat Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 I vote for the .308. It's a military adapted cartridge so you know you will always be able to get ammo and it will be cheaper, you can load heavier 190 or 200 grains vs the CM typical 140gr range, and at 300 yards who cares about the shooting capability of the CM? They will both get out there no problem but the .308 will do more when it gets there. You can build the .308 with a short barrel, 16" or so, with a lighter profile, save on weight and if down the road you really want the 6.5 then just build another upper. That's what I'm doing at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 I pulled out some 308 brass left over from my range days with the M-60, keep in mind when you read this it was produced about 45-50 years ago. Tried to reload that tough ass chit and no dice. The primer pockets crimps were so deep I had to ream about 1/3rd of the material out of the way to get a primer started in them. I still smashed/folded up about half a dozen primers trying to get them in that crap. Even pulled out my pocket knife and tried to peel out a little more to help things out, not happening. Decided to order some NIB unfired WW brass instead and it loaded without any effort at all......FWIW......Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 @Cliff R Maybe due to being soft, thick, and fired in oversized chambers, but life's to short to mess with reloading 50 YO machine gun brass! I really like the Starline brass when I order new stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 Makes me wished now I would have some a bunch of that Lake City Match brass, used to have access to butt-loads of it........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) I have carried my LR308 everywhere in the back country it is tough here as there are no flat places it is all up and down but I hunt lower than 10,000 ft I hunt from 2000 to 6800 that is about as high as I go and each year I am getting a bit lower....but I have found ways to get my 4 wheeler into certain areas on old horse wagon roads or mining roads that have been abandon and we will back pack the meat to them and then load it sometimes it works other times not ... but I try to hunt smarter now ...on the pic with the 4 wheeler we just packed that elk out of the canyon behind only had to pack maybe 1/2 mile to a old wagon road we cleared it with chainsaw and made it down in the canyon saved a hell of a lot of up hill packing same on the other pic with 4 wheeler we got the elk rolled down hill to a abandoned logging rd and got it out. On the boat pic My ex air force buddy killed this elk about 1/2 mile above the lake so we rolled it whole to the water line gutted skined and quartered it then left and got my boat went up the lake and just handed the quarters on the boat just have to work smart lol These rifles are heavy period but it is not that big a deal compared to 100 lbs of elk meat on your back get a Vivkers 2 point sling carry it over your shoulders arm through and it really is not bad.... Edited December 4, 2019 by Magwa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) On 12/1/2019 at 2:01 PM, Albroswift said: @Cliff R Maybe due to being soft, thick, and fired in oversized chambers, but life's to short to mess with reloading 50 YO machine gun brass! The newer brass fired in machine guns isn't much better! I got about 1500 rnds. of M60 brass form a friend of mine that works at White Sands Missile Range and the primer pockets were so loose in at least a third of that stuff they wouldn't hold a primer for crap! It was all W-W brass. I don't know what caused the primer pocket problem but it was definitely a problem. Edited December 4, 2019 by 392heminut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted December 7, 2019 Report Share Posted December 7, 2019 I've ran into a lot of used 308 COMMERCIAL brass that wouldn't hold primers. Also seems like Federal primers hold better in marginal brass then Win or CCI. Last year bought a bunch of new Starline through Diamond K and just bagging up all the old stuff. I haven't gotten to any 3x fired yet but the 2x fired were all within a couple thou of my original trim length on the 3rd loading, held primers fine, and neck tension good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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