New to reloading…I “think” I have everything??

[dpete]

23 hours ago, JBMatt said:

Which one do you have?  In my experience, the Hornady ones are a little too "tight".  I like the ones made by Wilson and I have a bunch of them.  Yellow/Orange box with black writing.  I used to use them all the time, and they're great to get started with to learn how all this stuff works.  Now that I have all my equipment set up for various calibers, I don't use them as much, but they're nice to have on hand in case you run into something giving you trouble.

@MJV83     One of these is what you need to gauge your resized brass to make sure its within spec. 

 

Take a resized case..plunk it in..and you can instantly see if the shoulder is bumped back far enough. 

The other option that gives you a cutaway view of what is going on inside the gauge is the Sheridan.

 

[MJV83]

@dpete Thanks…I’m gonna give the Lee one a try…see how well it works. Then, either way…I’ll probably end up getting one of those just to simplify things.

[98Z5V]

17 minutes ago, MJV83 said:

@dpete Thanks…I’m gonna give the Lee one a try…see how well it works. Then, either way…I’ll probably end up getting one of those just to simplify things.

If you're still talking about the Lee parts that you have, that's only for measuring the LENGTH of the fired brass, and cutting it down.  It's not really for "measuring" either, it's for cutting down cases that stretched during firing.  Cutting them back down to minimum length.

That's not used for checking cases that you've resized, checking shoulder bump, case swell, checking loaded overall length, any of that. 

[BrianK]

Evolution of a metallic handloader, that would be me (and another). Maybe this will help, if not just ignore it.

I started reloading for my brother who was in college in Utah in the late 60s. He wanted .300 Norma magnum for a Parker/Hale bolt action. I was told what to load and did under his guidance. I hated that cartridge/firearm. It was brutal. From there I moved to 9mm and loaded for a Browning Hi-Power for me. All of that on a single stage press (RCBS Rockchucker which I still use today half a century later). From there I started loading .38 Special for competition, 1k rounds a month. I just fired for groups I had no other data to work with. But they just needed to make holes.

The RockChucker worked fine for years and I still use it today for load development, bullet pulling, and swaging brass into another cartridge, swaging bullets too. 

But 2 decades ago (or so) the wife asked if I wanted a Dillon and I gave in. I shoot alot and it would save me lots of time. It's what I use today but IMO it's not a good first press. One needs to know how to make good ammo before getting a progressive press. One can make a lot of garbage really fast with a progressive. 

OK, story, not me as the lead character... I once knew a family with a child who fancied himself a shooter. He wanted to reload .223/5.56 and bought a Dillon progressive press. He didn't want to waste time actually learning how to handload. He just wanted ammo now. He loaded max loads from the loading manuals, never testing anything.  When his local supply ran out of one powder he bought another and loaded it to the max'. They've moved away and it's been decades since. I tried to explain to him, but he knew more than I did. I hope he learned. 

At some point you might want a progressive press, but not at this time. First learn to handload. Later once you learn the craft you might find that it's time for a progressive press. FWIW, a progressive makes a finished cartridge with every pull of the handle.  One can also really screw up with double powder charges and that will ruin ones day so you want to know what you're doing and how the press works. The Dillon does it's best to not produce double charges but I've done it and knew I was doing it and caught it every time. 

[98Z5V]

1 hour ago, BrianK said:

One can also really screw up with double powder charges

You can't really double a bottle-neck rifle case.  If you make that mistake, you'll know right away - RIGHT away.  They're filled damn near to case capacity, anyway.

[Albroswift]

It would be damn near impossible to double charge on a 650/750++ Dillon. Have to really set your mind to it. Plus what he said ^^^

I started out reloading with a 650, I was buying/ shooting a lot of pistol, 9/38/44/45 glad I did. Was not that hard to master, even without youtube at the time! BUT If I was only going to load 308 and a few other bottlenecks a rockchucker would have been just fine. 

[MJV83]

9 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

If you're still talking about the Lee parts that you have, that's only for measuring the LENGTH of the fired brass, and cutting it down.  It's not really for "measuring" either, it's for cutting down cases that stretched during firing.  Cutting them back down to minimum length.

That's not used for checking cases that you've resized, checking shoulder bump, case swell, checking loaded overall length, any of that. 

Gotcha…I’m gonna order the case gauge then. I’m brand new to this and am the last person to “pretend” I know what I’m doing!! I misunderstood the actual difference between the two parts. That’s why I started this thread, there seems to be thousands of parts you can buy for reloading and was completely overwhelmed…even after reading a few books. Actually, the books just overwhelmed me more, lol.
 

@BrianK I don’t plan on ignoring anyones input here. Being brand new, I much rather learn as much as I can from others mistakes, I’m sure I’ll make mistakes here and there, but much rather them be dumb mistakes that cost me time, not foolish mistakes that risk peoples lives!! I didn’t get a progressive press, but did get a turret press…mainly for the ease of switching dies. And I’ve always been on the cautious side when it comes to firearms and plan to be no different with loading. When the primers finally arrive and I start out, I plan to start at the min recommended loads and gradually work from there. Again, appreciate the tips!! 

[JBMatt]

8 hours ago, BrianK said:

One needs to know how to make good ammo before getting a progressive press.

I agree whole heartedly, @BrianK.  Learning to do all the steps by hand, and one at a time, is the best way to learn how it all works and fine tune your procedure.  I've seen guys new to the hobby buy all the fancy gizmos and automatic stuff, and their loads are crap.  Or at least not as good as they could be if they truly understood what was going on.  But they can make a lot of them!  All because they don't truly understand what it takes to get a perfect final product.  Even if it's just range ammo, it still needs to be as perfect as you can make it.  I mean, look at @98Z5V.  He's been hard core holding out.  I figured he was finally ready and it's only been recently that I've talked him into an RCBS powder dispenser.  And that guy has been loading for like, 5 years!  

Edited May 10, 2022 by JBMatt

[BrianK]

FWIW, I'm pretty sure he mentioned 9mm. Sure if he loads only "normal" bottleneck cartridges he'll be OK, as long as he doesn't load subsonic with fast powders such as the 300BLK. I just assume everyone gets more guns and cartridges and goes more in depth. But yes, not everyone is me asking, "What if?" and then go out and make it happen. One of my subsonic loads is in .223 and uses just a few grains of Green Dot under an 80 grain bullet. No, it doesn't cycle the action of an AR.  Another subsonic load in the Contender pushes a 35gr bullet and that uses even less powder. I have no idea just how deep he's going to get into the hobby. I never thought I'd be doing what I do today 55 years ago. Whatever.

[MJV83]

2 hours ago, BrianK said:

FWIW, I'm pretty sure he mentioned 9mm. Sure if he loads only "normal" bottleneck cartridges he'll be OK, as long as he doesn't load subsonic with fast powders such as the 300BLK. I just assume everyone gets more guns and cartridges and goes more in depth. But yes, not everyone is me asking, "What if?" and then go out and make it happen. One of my subsonic loads is in .223 and uses just a few grains of Green Dot under an 80 grain bullet. No, it doesn't cycle the action of an AR.  Another subsonic load in the Contender pushes a 35gr bullet and that uses even less powder. I have no idea just how deep he's going to get into the hobby. I never thought I'd be doing what I do today 55 years ago. Whatever.

I did mention 9mm, but don’t plan on loading anything but .308 for quite some time. And I can’t say for sure how deep into the hobby I will go, but I know I will take it step by step, being extra cautious. As I said, the last thing I would want to do is put myself, or especially someone else, at any risk whatsoever. I plan on keeping it extremely basic for a while!! Doing nothing but loads that are published in books and plan to stay at the low end of the powder…using the specific powders mentioned in the books. 
 

I’m not the type of person who thinks he knows everything right off the bat. In fact, I’m quite the opposite…which is why I’m here…to learn from guys with experience!! I’m sure I’ll ask some dumb questions along the way, but I much rather do that than assume I know what I’m doing and fornicate something up.

[MJV83]

1 hour ago, MJV83 said:

and fornicate something up.

That’s a new “autocorrect”…lmao…meant to say, “f*** something up”. Not sure if my phone did that or the website??

[BrianK]

1 hour ago, MJV83 said:

I did mention 9mm, but don’t plan on loading anything but .308 for quite some time. And I can’t say for sure how deep into the hobby I will go, but I know I will take it step by step, being extra cautious. As I said, the last thing I would want to do is put myself, or especially someone else, at any risk whatsoever. I plan on keeping it extremely basic for a while!! Doing nothing but loads that are published in books and plan to stay at the low end of the powder…using the specific powders mentioned in the books. 
 

I’m not the type of person who thinks he knows everything right off the bat. In fact, I’m quite the opposite…which is why I’m here…to learn from guys with experience!! I’m sure I’ll ask some dumb questions along the way, but I much rather do that than assume I know what I’m doing and fornicate something up.

You don't need to stay at the low end, just find out what pressure signs are and understand that some pressure signs can be seen, except they can also be false. I'm thinking of primers here. Some are soft and hard so they can lead one astray.  That's why I asked if you had a mic that reads to the 1/10000th. Brass will start to flow when we get into the range of danger. Mark a case on 2 sides of the head, measure. Then fire and measure again. There is a point at which one backs off. I haven't pushed pressure in so long that I forgot specifics. But it's online somewhere. But I'll also state that it's not  a bad thing to stay away from high end loads. I go even further and severely download at times. It saves the wrist, shoulder, powder, and less powder burning in the barrel helps lengthen barrel life. Personally, (did I already write this?) if I need more ft/lbs I get a bigger cartridge rather than push pressure and velocity. I didn't always think that way (young and foolish!) but today I do. Thank god I never blew anything up but I came close once. Yes, it was my fault, but it wasn't at the same time. I'll explain.

On the list of never do this... I once ordered 1k of .224 bullets. there were maybe 800 in similar packaging, but the rest were in slightly different packaging. I thought nothing of it. My test loads were showing 2x the number of holes in the target with 2 distinct groups and when I checked the brass something was definitely wrong. Unbelievable pressure signs! No mic required to see that the case heads had expanded. It was a clearly safe load that I had loaded, yet it wasn't. So I backed up and checked things when I got home. Everything checked out, yet I still had those unbelievable pressure signs.  After scratching my head for a while, it made no sense! What I didn't check were the bullets and that was the "Ahh Ha!" moment. I measured them and they were .228" for some off the wall .22 centerfire that was long out of production (.22 Savage?), but they were used to fill my order. I missed the fine print on the boxes. I was swaging them down .004 in the barrel. The cores and jackets were separating and that gave me 2 groups on target. Other than a broken extractor the gun and operator were fine. FWIW it was a Ruger Mini-14. They make one very strong firearm. That was maybe 45 years ago. Today everything is suspect and I check everything I am able to.

Pressure is our friend but it can get out of hand in a nanosecond. One good thing about ARs, the action is extremely strong. But you still have the right attitude to treat it with respect.

Just curious, where are you in NJ? Only in general, I'm not looking for your address.  That's where I lived 40+ years ago before I moved to a free state, and still have family down there. You folks have to swim upstream in rapids and waterfalls to have decent firearms. I got out before the madness really got going there. I had a secret clearance from the military and when I got out got my FOID in a very short time and I got permits to buy handguns in a day (seriously), so I didn't see what others saw. I went to buy a stereo and needed 2 forms of ID for them to take my check. I had one. The salesman rattled off a bunch of IDs and the last one he mentioned was the FOID, "But no one has those.", he stated. I pulled mine out and he looked it over. He'd never seen one before. I knew then to get the hell out of NJ. That happened at Gem Electronics in Paramus. I was raised in Ramsey and after getting out of the military lived in Pequannock for a time. The only reason I go back are for funerals.

[Steve crawford]

I like my EGW 7 Hole Case gauge.  It is not cheap but if my reload drops into it and there is less than 4TH's of an inch( thumb nail thick) of the base of the case sticking up I am good to go in my DPMS LR-308 rifle.  That is once fired military brass.  I also use a Lee Bench Prime tool for priming and like it a lot better than any of the hand prime tools I have. i use a Lee universal depriming die on all my rifle brass .  308  30\06 5.56 and most of my pistol brass.  I like to remove the primer before I clean the cases so the pocket gets cleaned. been reloading over 50 years and have not learned all of it yet.    😉😉😉

              Steve

[MJV83]

@BrianK My mic does go down to .0001, I used to be a car mechanic, so I have a good SnapOn mic and analog caliper. And that’s a crazy story about those bullets being .004” bigger than you expected, and I’m glad nothing severe came of it. Appreciate the tips, I’ll definitely be sure to keep my eye out for EVERYTHING.

As far as NJ goes, I’m in Toms River. Loved there pretty much my whole life. It’s that, my job, and my family that keeps me there…otherwise I would have been long gone. It took 4 months to get my last permit for a pistol…FOUR MONTHS!!! That’s insane!! At least with long guns, it only takes 1-3 days for the NICs to come back.

@Steve crawford I plan to do the same as you. I have a Frankfort Arsenal depriming tool and I’m going to deprime prior to cleaning as well. Then use the Lee bench prime to reprise the cases…I rather do everything one step at a time and make sure I’m doing everything correct…especially with this all being so new to me. 
 

Thanks again to everyone for all your feedback!! I really appreciate the help!! 

[98Z5V]

13 hours ago, JBMatt said:

And that guy has been loading for like, 5 years!  

5 years...   really?...  

[BrianK]

😀 I have an uncle in Toms River. You folks definitely are fighting the current! I told my family that they're absolutely welcome to come up, but bye, bye, we're gone, you're not holding me in NJ! They see what I have and what I can buy in the LGS and they have open jaws. They can't believe what freedom actually means. 

[98Z5V]

Used to date a girl from Toms River.   1/2 Cuban, 1/2 Puerto Rican.   That was one firey hot mess right there, but she was smokin' hot.  Glad it DIDN'T work out, or I wouldn't be here right now.    

[JBMatt]

1 hour ago, 98Z5V said:

5 years...   really?...  

Well, it's only been less than a year that you've seen the light and made a perfectly purchased upgrade to your load procedure, on my recommendation...    You know what else you've done in the past year?  Hit a cold bore shot at a mile.   You're welcome.  

[98Z5V]

2 minutes ago, JBMatt said:

You know what else you've done in the past year?  Hit a cold bore shot at a mile.   You're welcome.  

You know what else you've never done yet, ever?...     

Hit a cold-bore shot at a mile...  

That round I used was loaded on a beam scale...  

Edited May 11, 2022 by 98Z5V

[JBMatt]

4 hours ago, MJV83 said:

I used to be a car mechanic, so I have a good SnapOn mic and analog caliper.

Me too.  I used to mechanic.  Had those same calipers.  Until I dropped them.  Now I have a new set, and I don't drop them...

[JBMatt]

2 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

You know what else you've never done yet, ever?...     

Hit a cold-bore shot at a mile...  

That round I used was loaded on a beam scale...  

Blind squirrel... Acorn... Finding poop... Blah blah blah

[98Z5V]

15 minutes ago, JBMatt said:

Blind squirrel... Acorn... Finding poop... Blah blah blah

Go find it, then...  

[MikedaddyH]

Can't add too much more... Choose a powder that fills up a case at least 3/4 full. This will be a quick and noticable indicator of a double charge of powder.

[jeffery]

Man I want to start reloading. I bought a book to start reading up on it. Lyman is the book I bought. Sucker is thick! Gonna be a while to get through it.

[MJV83]

That’s the same book I bought to start off with. And coming from someone who was completely new to reloading when this thread started a few months ago…you really don’t have to go all out in your press!! I ended up with a Lee Classic 4 hole turret press. Bought an extra turret (use one for 308 and one for 223), and then ended up adding on a cheap Lee single stage press for cutting the cases to size, chamfering and deburring as well as pulling bullets when I screw something up….and you will screw stuff up!! So make sure you get a puller!! 
 

As the more experienced guys on here told me, start simple!! If you go all out with a high end progressive press, you may end up making MAJOR mistakes that can cause injury or death!! Take your time for the first several hundred rounds. And again, as others mentioned….start at the low end of the loads and work up from there. And DONT make up your own loads!! I followed everything these guys told me and still made mistakes, but at least they were non dangerous mistakes that taught me to be more careful. No matter how careful you are, you can ALWAYS be even more careful!!

Edited October 20, 2022 by MJV83