Curious

[jtallen83]

5 hours ago, BrianK said:

If I was still able and had to go cross country it would be on foot or by ATV trails

Don't forget the rivers, they worked fine for many a years. When I was on the road different places and made emergency get home plans I always felt like if I can get to the Mississippi then I can get to the house. 

[NightStalker]

I was just curious about how many would go to the Ar10 or AR308. 
I know there not the lightest rifle out there but sure hit hard and a gas gun. 

[shooterrex]

From a static position one of the 308ar's and the Magpul drum is a definite possibility. Just too much to lug around.

[Lonewolf McQuade]

Stationary: my AR10T .308

On the go(foot/vehicle): Tavor 7 .308 bullpup. 

[NightStalker]

Most of my travels is vehicle or horse back, should be good with that. 

[Sisco]

Probably my AR10 T carbine. 13 pounds loaded.w scope. 9.2 unloaded no scope

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sisco

[Armed Eye Doc]

I'm going with my AR5.7.  It has 50 rounds that are accurate out to 200 yards.  It is light as hell fully loaded and mags are light as well.  I only wish it used the same mags as the FiveseveN.  That would make it more convenient but with less capacity.

 

[NightStalker]

On 5/20/2022 at 12:47 PM, Sisco said:

That is the deal. For every fire fight your culmative chances of survival drop quickly. Got 1,000 rounds? Chances are before you use half of it, you won't be needing it any more. 

Ya know this one stuck with me and it’s just f*****g depressing to think about. 
Depressing because I know it’s true. 
 

[98Z5V]

On 5/20/2022 at 12:47 PM, Sisco said:

That is the deal. For every fire fight your culmative chances of survival drop quickly. Got 1,000 rounds? Chances are before you use half of it, you won't be needing it any more. 

From a military background, I tend to disagree with that statement - greatly.  If you lived through one, you found out some things.  Things that worked, and things that didn't work - and you're still here.  What you learned under fire, changes immediately, both good and bad.  You directly shiit-can the things that didn't work.  Done, gone.  You Embrace the things that did work, and figure out how to make those things better - if it's even possible - and you immediately incorporate that into your training - future training.  AARs, Modifying training plans, changing SOPs.  Direct Ground Combat immediately influences how you train -once you've been in it. 

Being in a Hostile Fire Area / Combat Zone sucks.  But if you haven't ever been in one, don't speculate about what it's all about. 

 

[Sisco]

13 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

From a military background, I tend to disagree with that statement - greatly.  If you lived through one, you found out some things.  Things that worked, and things that didn't work - and you're still here.  What you learned under fire, changes immediately, both good and bad.  You directly shiit-can the things that didn't work.  Done, gone.  You Embrace the things that did work, and figure out how to make those things better - if it's even possible - and you immediately incorporate that into your training - future training.  AARs, Modifying training plans, changing SOPs.  Direct Ground Combat immediately influences how you train -once you've been in it. 

Being in a Hostile Fire Area / Combat Zone sucks.  But if you haven't ever been in one, don't speculate about what it's all about. 

 

At 20, 30, or 50? Maybe. At 73, not a chance.

[Czgunner]

13 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

From a military background, I tend to disagree with that statement - greatly.  If you lived through one, you found out some things.  Things that worked, and things that didn't work - and you're still here.  What you learned under fire, changes immediately, both good and bad.  You directly shiit-can the things that didn't work.  Done, gone.  You Embrace the things that did work, and figure out how to make those things better - if it's even possible - and you immediately incorporate that into your training - future training.  AARs, Modifying training plans, changing SOPs.  Direct Ground Combat immediately influences how you train -once you've been in it. 

Being in a Hostile Fire Area / Combat Zone sucks.  But if you haven't ever been in one, don't speculate about what it's all about. 

 

I think the big thing here is having a competent team. If you are a loner and plan on shooting it out on a regular basis, chances are you won't last long.

[98Z5V]

19 minutes ago, Sisco said:

At 20, 30, or 50? Maybe. At 73, not a chance.

At any age, you never did it.  That's my point.  Not to dig on you in any way - but don't speculate about what it takes in a fire fight...   if you've never traded bullets with an adversary.  Don't overstep that boundary, because there's only one single way to gain that knowledge.  There is no other way around that.

[98Z5V]

21 minutes ago, Czgunner said:

I think the big thing here is having a competent team. If you are a loner and plan on shooting it out on a regular basis, chances are you won't last long.

Spending years on a competent team will give you the personal, individual competency skills, to know when it's right to get into something like that, when it's wrong to get into something like that - and when there's no other choice but to GET involved with something like that.  Being lucky enough to get out of a combat zone teaches you things.  Both good and bad, and you learn, immediately, what was good and what was bad.  As soon as the lead hits the fan, it tests your own SOPs.  Sometimes they work - sometimes, they need to be changed.  No matter what, it gifts you invaluable knowledge.

Read this:

https://www.recoilweb.com/fools-rush-in-the-calculus-of-armed-interdiction-174445.html?utm_campaign=207028_Recoil newsletter 5%2F20%2F22&utm_medium=email&utm_source=DotDigital&dm_i=7C6R,4FQS,2I8GXU,LE0F,1

[Czgunner]

1 minute ago, 98Z5V said:

Spending years on a competent team will give you the personal, individual competency skills, to know when it's right to get into something like that, when it's wrong to get into something like that - and when there's no other choice but to GET involved with something like that.  Being lucky enough to get out of a combat zone teaches you things.  Both good and bad, and you learn, immediately, what was good and what was bad.  As soon as the lead hits the fan, it tests your own SOPs.  Sometimes they work - sometimes, they need to be changed.  No matter what, it gifts you invaluable knowledge.

Read this:

https://www.recoilweb.com/fools-rush-in-the-calculus-of-armed-interdiction-174445.html?utm_campaign=207028_Recoil newsletter 5%2F20%2F22&utm_medium=email&utm_source=DotDigital&dm_i=7C6R,4FQS,2I8GXU,LE0F,1

I'll read through that, thanks. I wasn't high speed, like I've mentioned before, I was ADA. I did work with enough "pokey part of the spear" guys to know that things can and do go wrong. My only point was that going it alone wouldn't be my first choice.

[98Z5V]

2 minutes ago, Czgunner said:

My only point was that going it alone wouldn't be my first choice.

Shouldn't be anybody's choice.  Ever.  If I'm gonna get in a gun fight, I want friends around.  That's in the rules of gunfighting.

If I have no other choice to be alone, on said occurrance - where you never get to pick that fight, but it is bestowed upon you - better be trained.

The Rules For a Gunfight:

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap – life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you’re probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on “pucker factor” than the inherent accuracy of the gun. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. “All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket.”

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won’t work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don’t drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.)

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gun fight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than “4”.

25. You can’t miss fast enough to win.

[98Z5V]

Just now, 98Z5V said:

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

This is the BIG ONE, right here...  

[Czgunner]

1 minute ago, 98Z5V said:

Shouldn't be anybody's choice.  Ever.  If I'm gonna get in a gun fight, I want friends around.  That's in the rules of gunfighting.

If I have no other choice to be alone, on said occurrance - where you never get to pick that fight, but it is bestowed upon you - better be trained.

The Rules For a Gunfight:

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap – life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you’re probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on “pucker factor” than the inherent accuracy of the gun. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. “All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket.”

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won’t work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don’t drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.)

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gun fight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than “4”.

25. You can’t miss fast enough to win.

That's a very good list. My comments have been focused on the OP's question of "in a SHTF situation". I think many people assume that they will be alone and need to survive alone. Now is the time to build relationships with your neighbors and establish community.

One of my  greatest frustrations is the difficulty finding a range that will allow dynamic training vs static. The classes I have taken really opened up to me the importance of foot work and situational awareness. Things that are tough to work on at the FUDD range standing at a bench.

[98Z5V]

9 minutes ago, Czgunner said:

One of my  greatest frustrations is the difficulty finding a range that will allow dynamic training vs static.

I have that range.  Come visit. 

[Czgunner]

Just now, 98Z5V said:

I have that range.  Come visit. 

I'd love to.

[98Z5V]

1 minute ago, Czgunner said:

I'd love to.

Next big shoot here is over Vet's Day weekend.  Can you get from Wyoming to Arizona for it?

I have almost a 180* range fan, from camp. From camp, we can shoot 1760 yards - a true Mile.  We do it.  Everything in between, too - rifle, pistol, shotgun, wrist-rockets, and bowling ball cannons.  No caliber is disrespected, in any way.  They're all welcome.

[Czgunner]

2 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Next big shoot here is over Vet's Day weekend.  Can you get from Wyoming to Arizona for it?

I have almost a 180* range fan, from camp. From camp, we can shoot 1760 yards - a true Mile.  We do it.  Everything in between, too - rifle, pistol, shotgun, wrist-rockets, and bowling ball cannons.  No caliber is disrespected, in any way.  They're all welcome.

I'm busting my tail working through college (again) and am pretty much locked down here for another year. I sure appreciate your invite though.

[98Z5V]

3 minutes ago, Czgunner said:

I'm busting my tail working through college (again) and am pretty much locked down here for another year. I sure appreciate your invite though.

We're here - and not going anywhere.  Whenever you get the chance, come on down.  Announced, unannounced, doesn't matter - we can put an Ad Hoc Shoot together.  We don't care WHAT you shoot, not here.  We care THAT you shoot...   something... 

Edited May 22, 2022 by 98Z5V

[NightStalker]

I was thinking more about ammo supply and replenishing. 
 

[98Z5V]

We're all done, if it comes to that.  Dead as fuk.  Once this planet goes Walking Dead, you better be a Pro Baseballer swinging a bigass stick.

[Lonewolf McQuade]

On 5/21/2022 at 11:45 PM, 98Z5V said:

swinging a bigass stick

I personally would prefer duel wielding hatchets 😁