California cops own 7,600 assault rifles, federal probe prompts investigation

[imschur]

Peace officers throughout California have bought more than 7,600 assault weapons that are outlawed for civilians in the decade since state lawmakers allowed the practice, according to data obtained by The Associated Press after it was revealed that federal authorities are investigating illegal gun sales by law enforcement.

Investigators have not said what kinds of weapons were involved, but did say they were ones that officers can buy but civilians cannot. That category also can include certain types of handguns and high-capacity ammunition magazines.

The AP’s findings and the federal probe have prompted one state lawmaker to revisit the law to ensure that the guns can be bought only for police purposes.

“I think it’s much more questionable whether we should allow peace officers to have access to weapons or firearms that a private citizen wouldn’t have access to if the use is strictly personal,” said Assemblyman Roger Dickinson, a Democrat who represents the Sacramento region.

The investigation has raised questions about the kinds of restricted weapons that the more than 87,000 peace officers in the state are entitled to purchase and about a 2001 law that allows them to buy assault weapons “for law enforcement purposes, whether on or off duty.”

Source: Don Thompson for the Associated Press.

[unforgiven]

Indiana sheriffs were using official letterhead and buying full auto weapons and military grade lasers and selling them on the internet one traced to a shootin/murder 5 were caught still playing out.The men and women that fly straight don't need that.We all realize that job is hard enough without a blackeye from people like that.

[moagm316]

They should just loosen up their laws and allow the civilians buy them and then the cops wont be tempted.

[unforgiven]

Well you know the bad guys are guned up brother. >:(

[98Z5V]

California Cop, in any capacity = target by many crazy, or just plain bad, people for all kinds of reasons.  They deserve the lattitude that they get for firearms, and probably need them. 

From a December 2002 letter:

"The more than 100,000 professional peace officers serving with you in

California urge you to become a "hero" by supporting this most

worthwhile project."

California Peace Officers Association

So, the number has probably grown overall, but comparing figures:  Less than 10% of the California Police populace owns firearms that "normal" Californians aren't permitted to own.  No big deal, IMHO.  <dontknow>

[unforgiven]

That's all LEO's no doubt the wackos got them targeted.I got no problem with them getting tooled up for the job,just don't sell stuff to the crazyies.I would like to have a better laserhttp://www.laserdevices.com/index.cfm/c-Night_Vision_Products.htm#Aiming_Lasers Shoot on bros.

[imschur]

Honestly this whole thing smells funny. AP Investigation....Federal Probe.... Those to things arent confidence inspiring

[planeflyer21]

California Cop, in any capacity = target by many crazy, or just plain bad, people for all kinds of reasons.  They deserve the lattitude that they get for firearms, and probably need them.

I could disagree more but will limit myself.  Those same crazy or just plain bad people are faced by everyone on the street, cops or general public.  They should all have the same options for protecting themselves.

While LE leadership in California feel they need to restrict access to certain types of guns and other weapons (their knife laws are ridiculous) that only LE should have, I'm glad there are manufacturers like Ronnie Barrett around to say otherwise.

Jon

[edgecrusher]

Those same crazy or just plain bad people are faced by everyone on the street, cops or general public.  They should all have the same options for protecting themselves.

i agree. the problem is something sneaky is going

Honestly this whole thing smells funny. AP Investigation....Federal Probe.... Those to things arent confidence inspiring

where robo? what do you think? is this another mexico for the ag?

[survivalshop]

Commiefonia ,just doesn't get it .

I do see a problem with it , when you start to let any group , purchase any thing that a normal citizen can't purchase , its unconstitutional.

Now before you say ,well its  LE , I have no problem with the said purchases being made by the Dept. level , but individual purchase , is some thing else ( its the States law ). I'm all for LE ,but I /you have every right to own ,purchase any thing that any individual LE can, because when they buy it for home or personal use , its the same as you or me .

When we start making exceptions for any one because of there job title , its starting to sound like a privilege, that us peasants are not permitted to have, if you get my meaning .

I don't know how a 'Shootest " can live in that State, I feel for you people that live there .

It does have a wiff to it though , AP ummm?

[Robocop1051]

where robo? what do you think? is this another mexico for the ag?

Haha, I'm here. Just reading and trying to keep up. You wake up 3 hours before me bro. I gotta get that first cup of joe in before I post.

This has been a topic at the briefing table for about three or four years now. Especially in the Sacramento area. I know of several officers that are several thousands of dollars invested into their rifles/equipment and are not happy about the situation. We have to look at the the most important fact right now though.

Fact: The AG's "official opinion" was that officers should not be allowed to keep their AW's after retirement. That is not a judgement. That was an opinion Jerry Brown made in an open conference just before he became Governor. While the Lib's are hanging everything they have on that comment, it is not a final judgement. There has not been a case* brought to the courts yet to demand a decision.

*I mean a case that deals specifically in a retired LEO's ownership of an AW. Not some jackass selling department property from the trunk of his car or on eb@y

Commiefonia ,just doesn't get it....

When we start making exceptions for any one because of there job title , its starting to sound like a privilege, that us peasants are not permitted to have, if you get my meaning.

Isn't the basic concept of Communism, allowing everyone to equal privilege? I agree that Joe Citizen should have the right to own whatever he wants. My opinion is biased though. Remember that I deal with a LOT of shitheads on a daily (sometimes hourly) basis. These people need to NOT own any weapons. While I think it should be made easier for some to own, I still believe there is a need for checks and balances for those who shouldn't own.

I do have a problem with this though:

I'm all for LE ,but I /you have every right to own ,purchase any thing that any individual LE can, because when they buy it for home or personal use , its the same as you or me .

Joe Citizen is not going to instinctively put himself in harms way just because he owns an AW. I understand wanting to own it for personal/home use, but a LEO's personal/home use is not the same as Joe Citizen's personal/home use. We react 100% of the time, to all threats. Joe Citizen isn't required to, nor expected to, react to anything. Sure there are "good Samaritans" out there, but the good:bad ratio is a bit off balance.

A prime example happened just a few years ago. A friend of mine, off duty LEO, was driving on the freeway when he saw a deputy in a shootout with a suspect in the center divide. Without hesitation he stopped his car on the freeway, removed his AW from the trunk of his car, identified himself (they already knew each other, same dept), and engaged the suspect with the deputy. Hundreds of cars passed during that time... no one else stopped.

There is currently work being done to write a bill that would amend the current law and establish a secondary exemption for those who leave LE on positive terms (ie. retirement). This would not include those bad eggs who are dismissed from duty for whatever reasons. I think they may also have to establish that they were in LE for a period long enough to justify the need. Very similar to how our CCW's work for retired officers. You can't just come in, work a year, then quit and have the eternal LEO CCW.

Those LEO's that registered AW's, purchased under the color of authority, may have to re-register those AW's as "Ret. LEO". Currently the California Department of Justice has the authority to grant all California residents the exemption to own any Assault Weapon, SBR, SBS, or .50 BMG. All they have to do is justify the need in the eyes of the DOJ. $35 and an online application [and a good reason] is all that's required.

[planeflyer21]

All good points, Robo!

It sounds like it is an arbitrary process to get the approval for the AW (Cali's definition...much of that is OTC here in AZ), meaning it isn't a "shall issue".

I know that four years in AZ Corrections was plenty long enough to be seen as an enemy forever by those who were incarcerated.  It has to be the same way on the street too.

While cops get called when these whack jobs go overboard, their responsible neighbors (who deal with the whacks daily) should have the same resources.  We have no constitutional right to police protection...that is all on us.  By definition, police are first responders...first to respond after an incident.  A whole lot of time and money could be saved if citizens were free to neutralize gumptardidity.

Jon

[Robocop1051]

Agreed <thumbsup>

[unforgiven]

Brother Robo I'm far from Cali. but my understanding is while the D.O.J. of Cali. has the ability to grant permission to the people they rarely do unless your a money guy with a business,for the most part they make it EXTREAMLY difficult if not impossible for the LAWFUL person to have a CCW permit.Here in Indiana as long as you are not a felon,the local P.D. approves then you are fingerprinted,then the State Police does a background check.If there are no issues after that you are good to go.I see your side as L.E. but as stated you are first responder [ater the fact in most cases]and can not be everywhere all the time.The people need to defend themselves in light of as I see it the next twist is going to be a home grown terrorist.Respectfully

[98Z5V]

I agree with Robo 110%.  My previous opinion was based on alot of things, most of which were unstated - I just stated my opinion, without any qualifying reasons why I feel that way.

1st.  One of my very best friends is a retired ICE agent.  We hung around all the time before I retired from the Army, and when I moved back to AZ last year, we're right back at it.  He's finally retired now.  Well, when he's just out and about, he still has to do his duty - duty that he made a career of.  We're 12 miles north of Mexico.  Illegals are everywhere, here.  poop, we might be out in the desert, shooting, and if we run up on something, he still has to respond - that's what he's dedicated to.  The illegals don't know he's retired, but that doesn't matter.  They see someone armed, with a Border Patrol hat on, and they ALTO.  Right now.  Then, he's stuck with detaining them until the phone calls are made, and active agents show up to take custody of the fuc  "Undocumented Immigrants" - UDIs.

LEOs definitely DO deserve more leniency.  I'm retired Army - I don't deserve it, but my job was protecting outside the US borders. Not inside the US borders.  Those that are here inside these borders, protecting all of us - they deserve it. 

Kalifornia's stupid laws are another story.  Their restrictions on their citizens are ridiculous.  Don't hold that against their LEOs.

[Robocop1051]

I can't wait to move in <laughs>

[98Z5V]

We'll be forced to call it a "compound."  I'm positive of that.  <dontknow> <thumbsup>

[planeflyer21]

I know it may sound that way but I'm all for LE having tools to do their job.  It is the muckity-mucks that push to get dumb laws passed that I take issue with.

I like how when Cali banned the .50BMGs for civilians, the main excuse was "We're protecting our citizens.  These bullets (sic) can shoot through an armor plated limosuine."

I feel safer already.

Most folks can't afford the fun stuff and/or the ammo to feed it.  We have a guy at our club that has a .50BMG but just the one.  It is mighty and cool and mighty cool!

Jon

[MaDuce]

I stand with this nation's founders on this matter. That ALL citizens have a right to own any and ALL small-arms. If you can't be trusted with a gun, you can't be trusted in society.

Due to where I live, it seams as though 2-3x per month someone tries to sell me or get me to deal in hot firearms (and no, I don't do any of that, especially having had a very expensive handgun stolen from me). That goes to show how well controlled they really are. I; the law abiding citizen have a much harder time getting my hands on guns then any of the local criminals do. Blowing the whistle is going to have a very minimal impact on criminal firearm ownership.

Probably half my friends came here from Communist countries and they have had plenty to tell me about communist gun laws in addition to all other aspects of communist life and political structure.

Communism is basically an entire country that works like the military. Everything is rationed to you with very limited say in what goes on in your life.

In a communist system firearm possession works very strictly on an "as needed" basis. They are literally government property and never used as anything but that within the bounds of the law.

So, in a nutshell, this idea of issuing AWs only to people who "NEED" them is where our current AW laws mimic communism. My guess is that very few of us "NEED" a .308 AR rifle, but we have them.

I think Thomas Jefferson once said something along the line of tyranny being defined by legal for the government but not for the citizen. That about sums it up.

I'm very talented in pretty much everything needed to be a LEO (particularly detective. There's a reason why I have not taken up that job.

BTW. California state law makers already admitted openly that the tightening of gun laws is intended to make the lives of law abiding citizens harder without even mentioning criminals. The real agenda of the California government is no longer a secret.

[planeflyer21]

Yup, Ma Deuce, Cali definately has been flexing their authoritarian muscles lately, and feds in that state too.

SWAT raids on natural food stores for selling unhomogonized, unpastuerized milk?  They should be hanging public officials.

Jon

[unforgiven]

Milk??????? Cali...more loco everyday brother Robo Swat milk ....raids.. :o

[Timing]

If a non le can't own it neither can a le in my views. That includes the actual agency as well. If a state wants to limit it's residents from possesing a particular weapon, then no person or agency in that state should be allowed to posses it on or off duty.

Anything different is tyranny.

There's no some are more equal logic in my mind.

[MaDuce]

Milk??????? Cali...more loco everyday brother Robo Swat milk ....raids.. :o

I've run across my fair share of bad cops here in California and believe you me, the bad ones are often MAJOR CREEPS. But I have come across an equal amount of good cops who actually care about the welfare of citizens and have many times gotten in to conversations with them in which the expressed equal or even greater disgust in some of the local laws then guys like you and me.

I get the impression that Robobot belongs to the later crowd. He will get in trouble for NOT enforcing the local laws whether he agrees with them or not but has made it pretty clear that he shares our sentiments about them. TBH, I don't envy the man one bit. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[392heminut]

Being a 22 year veteran of law enforcement, I have always said 'I will support the U.S. Constitution in lieu of enforcing ANY law that is in conflict with said Constitution!' Here in New Mexico any law abiding U.S. citizen can own any firearm that any LEO can own and it should be that way in every state. Kalifornia has being violating Constitutional rights for a long time (along with Chicago and Washington D.C.). I have friends who are cops out there that can't wait to retire and get the heck out of that state!

[unforgiven]

Right on brother Hemi <thumbsup>,don't mean to derail but the first time I saw a Hemi was in a 64 Coronet called the "Hemi wrench" bad ass the guy's in the garage let me in to check it out will never forget.Shoot on bro.