ATF Closes My FFL for the Day?

[jtallen83]

Just left BW Outfitters in Denison, a perennial top ten seller on Gunbroker, An atf agent met me at the door and told me they were closed for the day, parking lot was full of cars though. Very unusual as they have never been closed for them before. Owner is a very LIBERTY minded person, I hope they don't get all his money.

[jtallen83]

Went back to have a conversation, not what I expected at all in response, he did ask me if I was recording. A half hour rant about what party has screwed up the country, about Waco and Ruby ridge being the fbi's fault( he brought that up out of the blue not me) how the regulatory branch has pissed everyone off, how he and his buddies are never coming to take anyone's guns no matter what, they just want to chase gang bangers. We agreed on about everything till I got to the nfa, for some reason he thinks it's important, got to go back before they leave so I can introduce myself to the rest, I'm a guy who's fought his whole life to have your job abolished, and we're gaining steam. ..... dam it, he just lured me onto the domestic terrorist list with that discussion............

   They told me it looks like Brad tiptoed over the line a bit but he thought they would be able to open back up this afternoon. 14 agents, 12 cars and trucks, three cars from Arizona and one from Texas, didn't look like rentals either as there was tons of stuff in them. I'm also a little surprised they were not more concerned about someone inspecting their cars? 

Edited August 31, 2022 by jtallen83
I'm slow

[shooterrex]

Hope they get to stay open but with the stories I've read lately they seem to want to shut shops down for any reason they can come up with.

[DNP]

We had similar around our office before. It’s pretty easy to inadvertently “tip toe” over the line. It’s also pretty easy to get caught knowingly working the wrong side of the fence.  

[jtallen83]

Most of them moved to his house now, nobody wants to talk anymore......... looking for machineguns, he has a pile of them so I suppose it's gonna take some time to get to all of them and check them off, who knows how many responsible parties are on the paperwork. That many eyes on him they are gonna see something but this guy has been teflon in the past. He has been charged with so many crimes people just assume he is a criminal, he has never been convicted and received a great big check every time a PD fires him, he's just a big target that makes his own way, sells a crazy number of guns, @Robocop1051 knows of him I think, Brad Wendt.

[blue109]

11 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

How he and his buddies are never coming to take anyone's guns no matter what

And now you know for sure they are lying scum...and also they know exactly what to say to temporarily appease any possible troublemakers. He probably walked back inside and had a good laugh about the conversation with his "buddies" while they dug through your FFLs paperwork looking for your name. We just got a whole security brief on [dom-REDACTED-estic extr-REDACTED-emists] after the trump raid. They are searching for people talking online about FBI and other alphabet agencies. I just got this post tagged for review lol. 

 

Here is the notebook sitting on my desk during the briefing lol. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by blue109

[Cunuckgaucho]

7 hours ago, DNP said:

We had similar around our office before. It’s pretty easy to inadvertently “tip toe” over the line. It’s also pretty easy to get caught knowingly working the wrong side of the fence.  

A legal gun owner that tip toes over the line, usually a paperwork thing is looking at loss of licence, loss of firearms( usually upon being charged not convicted) and jail time.

A guy gets caught smugling handguns across the border in Quebec, 248 handguns and prohibited parts. That gets you 5 years but paroled after 1.  So much for tough on gun crime

[blue109]

Let's not forget the ATF ran guns to their preferred cartel for years and pretended it was some sort of "tracking" operation when they finally got caught. 

[MtnMike]

Saw where NY just past a state law requiring gun applicants provide a list of 3 years of "social media" accounts as part of application.  Made me wonder if forums are considered "social media" under the law.  And how much delay is added to an application if state bureaucrats are spending all day trolling through 3 years of each applicant's facebook, twitter and reddits.  Unreal.  Also, made me wonder if the pols in NY considered that their last batch of gun laws was recently ruled unconstitutional by the S. Ct. and that NY had the largest population decline of any state last year. We are watching the destruction and fall of the American dream before our eyes in real time.

[jtallen83]

7 hours ago, blue109 said:

and also they know exactly what to say to temporarily appease any possible troublemakers.

He was walking me right down the domestic terrorist warning sign list, the list in the videos below talking about Waco and Ruby Ridge, His Waco question was "Who burned the babies?" Sure seemed to be walking me down a line of questioning that meshed perfectly with what the document in these videos describes. Classic good cop interrogation schit, I'm just like you approach. Can't blame them, they are inundated with warnings of white supremacists, it's bound to work its way into the thought process. If he's gonna go and try to put me on a list for brownie points he will be disappointed, those brownies went stale a long time ago.

 

Fired this off to everyone from Sheriff to Senator, included the links for context in case they are not aware;

"I had an interesting conversation with an ATF agent at BW Outfitters in Denison this morning. I have to say I feel like I have been questioned by the Gestapo or KGB, very polite but the nature and direction of the conversation he guided struck a chord with a recently released DOJ memo about how to recognize domestic terrorists, I do have a Molon Labe sticker on my car, have for years and years, it was the motto of the special operations command when I was a Ranger in the early 80’s, I have my old battalion flash on there as well.
     I went to the gun store only to be met at the door by an ATF agent and told they are closed for the day. I left but thought who the hell are they to say that, put crime tape up or let the owner close the place, so I went back around to watch. A dozen cars and at least as many agents, as they ended an outsider meeting and headed in I told them they better work fast as America is tired of the crap and likely to throw them all out of a job, this drew an agent to my car. He asked if I was ok, I told him fine but a guy doesn’t get a chance to tell an actual ATF agent what he thinks of the ATF very often so I grabbed it, I told him I had rehearsed all sorts of profanity but since he was a man and treated me as such he didn’t deserve it, he chuckled and asked if I was recording. I said no and he started explaining how it was the regulatory side of the agency causing all the problems with braces and triggers, the public has the wrong impression, he just wants to chase down gang bangers. I expressed that chasing gang bangers is not in the constitution as a federal responsibility. He then asked who runs Chicago. I said I didn’t know what gang ran it now, he said no I mean what party? What party runs Des Moines?  Next he wants to know who burned the children at Waco, who was responsible, FBI,  ATF? Then he asked who did Ruby Ridge, I reminded him Randy was from around here, I had met Randy as a kid but I only know what people say, an FBI sniper shot his wife. There was one more question that led to an immediate answer of the FBI but I don’t recall what it was because my mind was going to the Project VERITAS leaked DOJ document that laid out to agents how to recognize a domestic terrorist……….. Have I just made a list? He guided me right down the qualifications. I’m curious how you would answer those questions and if you think an agent should be asking me those questions in light of the document he undoubtedly received from his bosses?  Time to get a handle on the goon squads before they think they own us all."

I just have to poke, can't help myself, I think I will send it to his agency today.
 

[jtallen83]

55 minutes ago, MtnMike said:

We are watching the destruction and fall of the American dream before our eyes in real time.

Makes you wonder when Kristallnacht is planned for, or was that the Trump raid? Either way a corner has been turned.

[jtallen83]

To this point they haven't told him he did anything wrong if he did, he knows what I know. They gave press releases to all the local media, no info just yes we went to these locations, can't comment on an ongoing investigation. The Ruby Ridge comment was not exclusively for me, it came up between agents and employees during the fishing expedition. For now you can still click buy it now on his Gunbroker listings so they maybe aren't so sure about the line they think he crossed. 

https://www.1380kcim.com/2022/09/01/details-still-scarce-on-atf-fbi-raids-at-five-west-central-iowa-locations-wednesday/

[jtallen83]

Support the man if you can, pass this around;

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?IncludeSellers=6379045

[98Z5V]

This is getting interesting. 

[Lane]

15 hours ago, MtnMike said:

Made me wonder if forums are considered "social media" under the law.  And how much delay is added to an application if state bureaucrats are spending all day trolling through 3 years of each applicant's facebook, twitter and reddits.  Unreal.  Also, made me wonder if the pols in NY considered that their last batch of gun laws was recently ruled unconstitutional by the S. Ct. and that NY had the largest population decline of any state last year.

Makes me wonder as well. They don't define a list of what they consider social media to be. From a highly technical standpoint; can't email and telephone conversations fall under the umbrella (the definition is very loose). 

And yes; the NY politicians are fully aware that they passed new unconstitutional laws. They were apparently snickering about it behind closed doors; trying to be as absurd as possible in regards to "trying to comply" with the supreme court ruling on NYSRPA v. Bruen. They even met in an extraordinary session for no other purpose but pass more gun laws as an absurd response to Bruen.

Today was supposed to be the beginning of ammo background checks; but I didn't get any kind of anal probe. Also today; all the sudden, you can't buy a semi-auto rifle without a license. A license you can't actually get... It's wild. And all we can do is wait for another court to take up another case, to whittle away at the absurdity. Gun stores have been very busy as people were stocking up on things in the past few months.

I want to laugh; it must look like a comedy show from an outside perspective. 

[98Z5V]

3 minutes ago, Lane said:

I want to laugh; it must look like a comedy show from an outside perspective. 

Horror Show.  Because of this dictator:

Hochul signs new gun control laws after Buffalo, Texas mass shootings

https://nypost.com/2022/06/06/gov-hochul-signing-new-gun-control-laws-after-recent-massacres/

[jtallen83]

13 minutes ago, Lane said:

it must look like a comedy show from an outside perspective. 

Busy gun stores is a big positive, politicians follow the money, looks like NY is waking up as a whole and I don't mean the woke waking 

[Lane]

12 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

politicians follow the money

That's the thing that's most concerning. Our AG has already demanding sales records from many online retailers in regards to NY state sales (Brownells, polymer80, etc.). Now this? What good could possibly come of giving them more sales information?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/nyc-california-pension-leaders-seek-payment-codes-gun-sellers-2022-08-30/

[98Z5V]

7 minutes ago, Lane said:

What good could possibly come of giving them more sales information?

They'll have a list...   That's their plan.  Their ONLY plan. 

[jtallen83]

Just now, Lane said:

What good could possibly come of giving them more sales information?

A check in the mail was the only way to buy from Brownells for decades, they still have people that remember how to do it I bet, if I lived in one of those restrictive states I would be using a check for sure. I really need to try and get to their store, can't even call it new anymore as they have added on already.

[98Z5V]

[98Z5V]

Written bank checks clear digitally now, and have for a long time, now...  Your bank Routing Number, and your Account Number - transmitted digitally.  THAT is how a "check" clears instantly.  That's why there are bar codes on your paper checks, that you write. 

They already have the information - it's already a done deal - digitally.  Write that check...   Think you're "getting around the system" - you're not. 

Welcome to the real world.  The digital world.  Paper checks, written - same as swiping your card. 

[Lane]

Can obviously pay cash locally; and I often do with my LGS because it saves them money on credit card fees.

But it's terribly difficult NOT to shop online for parts. Can't buy decent quality roll pins at any hardware store around here. And the list goes on. I've never even seen a lower parts kit in a local gun store. They seem to have adapted to the availability of parts online; though they all sell stripped lowers. Don't even think I've seen barrels for sale very often.

It's what this "list" is used for that ultimately makes me wonder... Who has access to this information? What happens in response to having a list? .... If they do get retailer codes, and flag someone. What does a home visit look like? It's already happening from what I understand.

[98Z5V]

5 minutes ago, Lane said:

Can obviously pay cash locally; and I often do with my LGS because it saves them money on credit card fees.

Cash is King.

[Lane]

3 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Cash is King.

I disagree. You can't eat it. It's not really good for making much of anything. Even burning it doesn't help much unless you have wheelbarrow loads.

Cash in the mattress is kind of worthless. I'd rather have a lot of other things than cash.

I spent mine.