Canadian Marksmen Rifle Systems Project

[Cunuckgaucho]

The Armalite AR10(T) Semi-Automatic Sniper Weapon (SASW) in Canadian Service

The Marksman Rifle System Project (MRS) originated as an Immediate Operational Requirement (IOR) in 2003 to support Canadian Forces troops sent to Kabul as part of Operation Athena (Op ATHENA). The MRS began as Statement of Operational Requirements (SOR) meant to address the gap in CF bolt-action sniper rifle capabilities – all in-service 7.62mm Parker-Hale C3A1 rifles were wearing out and the larger 12.7mm (50 cal) McMillan C15 was intended as an anti-matériel weapon as opposed to anti-personnel. Plans were being formulated for a new CF Medium-Range Sniper Weapon System (MRSW) but it would be several years before the CF fielded a Canadian-made 8.6 mm (.338" Lapua Magnum) Prairie Gun Works Defence Technologies Inc (PGWDTI) C14 Timberwolf. Meanwhile, MRS was to fill a gap.
 

The MRS would consist of two different semi-automatic rifle designs – one 7.62mm and one 5.56mm (above) – to fill two separate roles while overlapping on a third. The larger calibre rifle was to act as a spotter's rifle backing up the sniper. The smaller-bore rifle would act as a Designated Marksman weapon (the CF having flirted with the DM concept for some time prior to MRS ). Being rapid-firing, both MRS rifles would provide 'security' for CF sniper teams in the field. Neither MRS type would be a primary sniper weapon (that job was left to specialized bolt-action rifles). Instead, the MRS armed other members of the sniper team as 'security' weapons (making best use of their faster rates of fire). Both rifles were also meant to be interim types and, as often happens with DND procurements, the orders for MRS were to prove to be too small to provide for both operational and training requirements of the CF.
 

A CF member mans an AR10(T) on pre-deployment training in Fort Bliss, Texas

Around 2004, the Canadian Department of National Defence (DND) trialled at least two 7.62mm semi-automatic candidates for the MRS Project. Both rifles were based on the original ArmaLite AR-10 design of 1955. One was the LR-308 from the Minnesota-based DPMS Panther Arms (which would lead to DPMS' later LRT-SASS and REPR or Rapid Engagement Precision Rifle). The second design was the AR-10(T) from a revived ArmaLite Inc. A half-dozen rifles participated in MRS trials. The winning MRS candidate was the ArmaLite AR-10(T), a 'target model' of their updated 1996 AR-10B rifle design. Known by the CF simply as the AR-10T (no DND 'C' designation was ever applied to the interim MRS types), the ArmaLite entered Canadian service as the Semi-Automatic Sniper Weapon (SASW). The SASW acronym caused some confusion as a more numerous AR-10 clone, the US military's Knight's Armament M110/SR-25 is called a Semi-Automatic Sniper System (SASS).

Although ArmaLite won the CF's MRS contest, the rewards were modest. Only 18 AR-10(T) SASW service rifles were bought by DND. All 18 of the AR-10(T)s were immediately deployed to Afghanistan to back up CF sniper teams. By all accounts, the AR-10(T)s performed well in-theatre but there was a "fly in the ointment". With such a minuscule order, there was not enough AR-10(T) SASWs to both fill both the operational requirements in Afghanistan and CF training needs back home.
 

AR10(T) in use in Afghanistan. A good view of the Badger Ordnance 'Tactical Stabilizer Handguard'




AR10(T) with Sniper (left)


PPCLI soldier holding an AR10(T) during operations in Afghanistan, summer 2006

Photos of the AR10T on Operation Reassurance (Op REASSURANCE) in Poland, 2015:
 

If the AR-10T in Canadian Forces service is a bit of a mystery, the 5.56mm component of the Marksman Rifle System is a near enigma. It is not clear whether DND held a competition for the smaller rifle. But the outcome was the CF's handful of Diemaco C7CT "Custom Tacticals" (C7CT is not a CF designation, it and 'Custom Tactical' are Diemaco/Colt Canada brands) The C7CT is a Designated Marksman (DM) weapon but not in the sense that other armies use that term. A Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR) is usually interpreted as a squad weapon. Yet only a dozen or so C7CT rifles are thought to have been possessed by the CF – perhaps even fewer. Regardless of what they are called, C7CTs seem to have mostly filled a 'security' role with sniper teams. Going by DND/CF photos, C7CT are generally used observers for snipers with 12.7mm C15A1 rifles. 'Security' is provided by C8 carbines. Obviously the C7CT is a useful weapon since it is still in CF service (and maintaining a tiny number of specialist weapons is never easy (even when there is great commonality with the standard service rifles). A simple explanation might be that the C15A1 is being used in its intended original role as an anti-matériel rifle and against other high-value targets while the C7CT, with its higher than a normal C7/C8 accuracy, has become a back-up sniper weapon.
 

A soldier from B Company, Royal 22e Régiment, stands sentry with a 5.56mm C7CT following an engagement with Taliban fighters November 17th 2007, during OP TASHWISH MEKAWA in Afghanistan.

With so few rifles to go around, it is hardly surprising that, less than a decade on, the CF's AR-10(T) SASWs are wearing out. In Jan 2013, a Notice of Proposed Procurement for a new 'Precision 7.62mm Weapon' was published on MERX. Although specifically listed as an AR-10(T) replacement, the call for new suppressed-firing semi-automatic rifles is obvious enough. So too is the demand that the new PW is to be based on an "AR platform" or lower receiver. What is apparent about the MRS weapon components is that, while there is a Notice of Proposed Procurement issued for a replacement for the 7.62mm AR-10T, there is no such indicator that there is a hunt on for a 'next-generation' 5.56mm rifle to replace the C7CTs. Nor is the C7CT mentioned in the list of CF specialist weapons with which the new Observation Target Acquisition System project must be compatible. That alone would seem to suggest that the Canadian Forces sniper teams have put great value on the 7.62mm rifles.

In 2019, the CF purchased 300 7.62mm C20 Semi-Automatic Precision Rifles (SAPR) from Colt Canada. The C20 rifle is destined to replace the 5.56mm C8A3s currently in used sniper teams for "personal security".
 

[98Z5V]

You gotta build one, brother. 

[unforgiven]

Build 2 you know you want to.🍻🍻🇨🇦

[Cunuckgaucho]

Here's hoping for a fall election and the lieberal government gets booted out. New government can rescind the Order in Council( similar to executive order) that currently has ARs under house arrest along with prohibiting the selling/buying AR recievers.

 One idea it to create something based on the influence of the two rifes. I have a spare Colt LE-901 https://modernfirearms.net/en/civilian-rifles/u-s-a-civilian-rifles/colt-le-901-eng/ lower that would form the base. The beauty of this rifle is it's a 308AR and with a conversion block also accepts an AR-15 upper. Think one pelican case, one lower and two different uppers

Until then I'm keeing my eye out for parts that come up for sale so when things change 

Other option is to use Maple Ridge Armory upper/lower https://mapleridgearmoury.com/maverick/mra-maverick-receiver-kit-308-win-6-5-cm/( they make a small and large reciever set) This would allow me to assemble and shoot the parts and when ARs are legal again transfer the parts to AR recievers. Till then I'd basically have a bolt action rifle.

 

[Sisco]

I have the AR10T carbine. Love that rifle. Will be bringing it this fall.

[98Z5V]

On 7/8/2023 at 6:42 PM, Cunuckgaucho said:

Other option is to use Maple Ridge Armory upper/lower https://mapleridgearmoury.com/maverick/mra-maverick-receiver-kit-308-win-6-5-cm/( they make a small and large reciever set)

Damn!   Those are NICE LOOKIN'!!!  

[Cunuckgaucho]

18 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Damn!   Those are NICE LOOKIN'!!!  

They are, the main reason for the product was to allow Canadians to strip the parts off our ARs and still use them. One irony is as an AR it was a resticted firearm,registered and had restrictions( only range use, can't use as truck gun). Now it's considered a bolt action rifle so as long as it has an overall length of 26", so 11" barrel SBR I can carry it around in my truck 24/7 and shoot it anywhere it's lawful to discharge a fire arm( ie backcountry).

Looking at the AR10 handguard

It makes me think of the Bushmaster M17S and K&M M17s

I have a MRA Renegade in 224 Valkyrie which is coming down in Nov.

[sketch]

Nice!! 

[Magwa]

very sexy that side charge is can these be purchased here in the states?

[Cunuckgaucho]

15 hours ago, Magwa said:

very sexy that side charge is can these be purchased here in the states?

Are you talking about the Mapleridge Armoury side charger? Just to be clear it's not a semi but a straight pull back bolt action rifle that allows us in Canada to strip the parts off our ARs and continue to shoot. Once we get the OIC(order in council) reversed,parts can then go back to their origional AR recivers. 

To the best of my knowlage they are not currently being sold in the US, as it is now they are having trouble keeping up with demand in Canada

 

[Magwa]

very cool way of making a bolt gun with AR parts you Canucks are very twicksy

[Cunuckgaucho]

We try... would be better if we didn't have to but it's importantto give the government a 

[DNP]

Anyone make that a pump action yet?  A sliding handguard with a bar connected to the BCG could work just like a side charger. 

[DNP]

Or a lever action, but not like you’re thinking. Put the lever up front with a short throw linkage setup. Let the lever double as a forward grip. 

[DNP]

On the pump, you could run the linkage through the same spot the gas tube runs…to keep it concealed. 
 

ok. I’m obviously delirious. Going to bed now. 

[98Z5V]

Eric, you really building one of these beasties?  When you hit the Fall Shoot, stick around until the 3rd Saturday of the month, and hit a match here with that thing!

That would be the weekend after the shoot, 18 November for the match. 

[Cunuckgaucho]

On 7/12/2023 at 10:16 PM, DNP said:

Anyone make that a pump action yet?  A sliding handguard with a bar connected to the BCG could work just like a side charger. 

11 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Eric, you really building one of these beasties?  When you hit the Fall Shoot, stick around until the 3rd Saturday of the month, and hit a match here with that thing!

That would be the weekend after the shoot, 18 November for the match. 

The 224 Valkyrie is done and now have to work up loads, as to the others still scourcing parts but have listed them on my ATF form

[unforgiven]

Great job on the build brother 🍻🍻🇨🇦

[98Z5V]

I'm not gonna lie - I'm quite excited about this.  It's as close to a Mk12 as the Canadian Army went, and they did it well.  I can't wait to see this thing.  Then, I'm gonna lick it, then shoot it!~ 

[Cunuckgaucho]

On 7/15/2023 at 5:55 PM, 98Z5V said:

I'm not gonna lie - I'm quite excited about this.  It's as close to a Mk12 as the Canadian Army went, and they did it well.  I can't wait to see this thing.  Then, I'm gonna lick it, then shoot it!~ 

Some info 

Many accurized versions of the AR-15/M16 weapon system are available at this time. The most notable being the Mk12 MOD 0/1 rifle in use by the United States Special Operations Command. Due to the inherent accuracy of this weapon system, it is possible with little effort to get a match grade barrel and have it shooting sub-moa at 100 meters. This degree of accuracy has both military and law enforcement applications. Diemaco produces two basic versions of accurized rifles/carbines.

The C7CT (Custom Tactical) is a highly modified C7A1. This rifle has a 20-inch heavy non-chrome lined, hammer forged barrel with an aluminum free floated barrel handguard. The barrel is designed to take a removable noise/flash suppressor very similar to that of the Mk12 MOD 0/1. To enhance accuracy, the rifle has a two stage trigger and titanium firing pin. The upper receiver has a flat top upper receiver with either a mil-std-1913 rail or the Canadian Weaver rail. Often the scope is attached to a Triad scope base to allow other devices to be attached. The buttstock is fitted with a removable weight to counter balance the additional weight of the heavy barrel. A bipod and sling swivels are also standard equipment. Additionally, a modified pistol grip is used to enhance performance. The maximum effective range with Canadian C77 ball ammunition is approximately 600 meters.

 

 The big plus even though I don't have a finished rifle to list I have a reciver serial number and a barrel length so can submit the info onto my form 6

The stock,pistl grip,tubular handguard and bipod should be relitively easy to scource. Still need to figure out the scope used or at least the power range.

The nice thing is I can still use an AR barrel( get one from IBI) and once ARs are free to roam transfer all the parts onto a Colt reciever.

 What do you think Tom, any chance it's worthy of a custom paint job?

[98Z5V]

On 7/16/2023 at 7:06 PM, Cunuckgaucho said:

What do you think Tom, any chance it's worthy of a custom paint job?

Hell Fuckin' YEAH, it's worthy! 

[Cunuckgaucho]

So no luck on figuring out the optics yet.

So where things are barrel wise, so trying to find a 20" heavy barrel in Canada is not easy since the ban on sale of ARs here. What are people's experience/opinion with Ballistic Advantage Premium Series 20" .223 Wylde DMR Contour?

Other option is to order a barrel from the same guys that cut the barrel for my 6.5PRC.( about 2 month out)

All the other bits aren't so bad and just a matter of finding the best deal.

 

 

[98Z5V]

2 hours ago, Cunuckgaucho said:

What are people's experience/opinion with Ballistic Advantage Premium Series 20" .223 Wylde DMR Contour?

I think it's badass, but I'd do the 18" SPR Profile .223 Wylde Chamber, 1:8" rifle gas barrel - before I'd do that 20" barrel.  All day, hands down.  The Premium Series.  Do it stainless, or nitrided - same barrel, different treatments.  One is dull silver, the other is black.

These two:

https://www.ballisticadvantage.com/18-223-wylde-spr-stainless-steel-rifle-length-ar-15-barrel-w-ops-12-premium-series.html

https://www.ballisticadvantage.com/18-223-wylde-spr-stainless-steel-rifle-length-ar-15-barrel-w-ops-12-premium-black-series.html

I have the SPR Profile Premium Series barrels in:

18" .223 Wylde (two)

16" .223 Wylde (two or three, hard to count right now...)

16" 6.5 Grendel

18" 6.5 Grendel

18" 6 ARC

18" .224 Valkyrie

^^^  Those are the stainless ones, Premium Series. I might be forgetting one, not sure.  I'm pretty sure that's the count on those, though.

They make them in CrMo, 5.56 NATO Chamber, 1:7" twist, too, the Modern Series.  I have two of the 18" 5.56 barrels in those. Bought one for @JBMatt for his birfday a few years ago, as well, outside of my two.  Got it on sale, and he was worth it, so Let's Do This!... 

They don't suck.  They have a 1 MOA guarantee on those, all those listed above, if you're using match ammo.   I can definitely confirm that 1 MOA Guarantee, too.  They get it done.

You won't make a bad decision with the purchase of a BA barrel.  For what this gun should be, I'd very highly suggest the SPR Profile barrels, and nothing else.  For all around, I'd suggest the .223 Wylde chambers, 1:8" twist, and those are only in the Premium Series. 

 

[Rsquared]

I went with the BA 18" in 6.5 Grendel for mine. That seems to be almost the perfect length.

Courtesy of the Silverback suggestion.

[Cunuckgaucho]

21 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

I think it's badass, but I'd do the 18" SPR Profile .223 Wylde Chamber, 1:8" rifle gas barrel - before I'd do that 20" barrel.  All day, hands down.  The Premium Series.  Do it stainless, or nitrided - same barrel, different treatments.  One is dull silver, the other is black.

so Let's Do This!... 

They don't suck.  They have a 1 MOA guarantee on those, all those listed above, if you're using match ammo.   I can definitely confirm that 1 MOA Guarantee, too.  They get it done.

You won't make a bad decision with the purchase of a BA barrel.  For what this gun should be, I'd very highly suggest the SPR Profile barrels, and nothing else.  For all around, I'd suggest the .223 Wylde chambers, 1:8" twist, and those are only in the Premium Series. 

 

Big issue up here is getting AR barrels.

 So on the shelf currently are( .223 Wylde, 1-8)

- Ballistic Advantage, 18" Stainless Stel SPR flutted or 20" Stainless Steel DMR

-Criterion 18" Chrome Moly Hybrid or 18"&20" Stainless Steel Hybrid.

I agree that there is no real advantage to the 20" over the 18" so now starting to consider this a C7CT inpired rifle.

Comparing the C7CT to C8CT(16" barrel) I'm still liking the C7CT over the C8CT, I'd rather cone a MK12 mod H for a 16" AR

 As far as doing it, once we decide on the barrel(gas block) I'll have that ordered( either tomorrow evening or Friday afternoon) also the pistol grip,trigger,handguard.

Haven't nailed down the stock, love the A2 style stock but two concerns are cheek weld and LOP adjustability ( tee shirt to winter jacket)

Also still no joy on the scope but that's the least of my worries.