Barrel break in

[85 Jimmy]

When I finally get everything together and get the MA-TEN together is there a particular barrel break in procedure anyone recommends? I've asked others what their opinion was and most say to just shoot it. Others I talk to have given specific instructions on their barrel break in procedures...

What are yalls onpinions on this?

[Jgun]

I don't know what barrel you're using, if chrome lined I don't think I'd worry about breaking it in. If it's a match barrel you might want to take a look at Krieger barrels website. They have a barrel break in procedure listed, which also gives some explanation for what they say you are trying to accomplish by the procedure.

                      http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

[85 Jimmy]

I'm using a rainier arms 18" ultra match.

[edgecrusher]

I've heard everything, but I broke mine in, in all new guns, 1 shot clean bore, repeat five times, three shots clean bore, repeat twice, five shots, clean bore, repeat twice, and then good to go. Is it right? Who knows! Where did even hear it? Couldn't tell you? It hasn't hurt, and it does't bother me to do it that way.

[IM_JOHNNYV]

Worked for a gun shop in Cleveland back in the 70's and we never did "Barrel break-in". If machined and assembled properly, I would say shoot it. Never had a problem with any of mine and I've been doing this for near 50 years, but I'm not critiquing new ideas or proven methods, but I know what has worked for me...........

Just my 2¢

[Jgun]

I  "think" the gist of the instructions from krieger are that you are trying to remove (by shooting) the surface roughness left from rifling the barrel. Their barrels are lapped, but that only takes cae of the lands, the grooves will smooth out from the friction of the bullets going down the barrel, but you want to remove the copper that is deposited or else each subsequent bullet will add another layer. If, on the other hand, you clean between shots for the first several, the barrel gets burnished and is not so prone to picking up copper.

Sounds good on paper. I've done this method on expensive barrels, just because it's recommended, but have no idea what would have happened if I hadn't.

I recall reading the opinion of a respected barrel manufacturer, he said, that barrel break in is BS. His opinion was that every barrel will never shoot better than it does new, and that every rd through the barrel creates wear, and it's just a matter of what rd, what barrel material, what powder/bullet, how hot it's loaded, that will determine the life of the barrel. If you really want to explore this, go on one of the bench rest forums and do a search on barrel break in/ barrel life. Those guys really push their rds fast and with the MV and the calibers that they shoot, they are really the cutting edge when it comes to accurate barrel life.

[unforgiven]

Regarding RRA and PSA was told about there barrels just go out and shoot.My .02

[survivalshop]

Saw a thing on the Army shooting team Armorer & he said if they take all the copper fouling from a barrel it will take between 40-60 shots to get them back to shooting good groups .

I missed the part ( or wasn't paying attention ) that said what rd. count that they did a deep cleaning , but it was a normal maintenance & they had to shoot that many rd.'s to get them back to shooting 1/2" MOA

I just shoot them , Three mags as fast as I can load a mag & pull the trigger & if it goes with out a hitch, then I know the rifle will not fail.

Then I clean & inspect it & she is ready for sighting in .

But that's just my way .

[IM_JOHNNYV]

I think it's pretty amazing how many different opinions there are on this subject.

My .300 Winchester Mag has had over 3000 rounds through it and from day one shot under an inch at 100yds, after I cleaned the copper fouling from the barrel, I was lucky to get a 2" group from it. After about 150 rounds she started coming back to where she used to be, 1" or better.

[jeffreyC]

Many shooters obsess about removing all the copper, the real problem is the carbon.

Look at it this way, carbon under heat and pressure becomes diamond.

Diamond is most commonly used as an extreme industrial abrasive.

[survivalshop]

Many shooters obsess about removing all the copper, the real problem is the carbon.

Look at it this way, carbon under heat and pressure becomes diamond.

Diamond is most commonly used as an extreme industrial abrasive.

Damn , we sure don't want the $hit in there !

[DrDover]

Many shooters obsess about removing all the copper, the real problem is the carbon.

Look at it this way, carbon under heat and pressure becomes diamond.

Diamond is most commonly used as an extreme industrial abrasive.

Are you honestly telling us that the temps and pressures in the barrel are in excess of 2,000 and are seeing pressures in excess of 45 kilobars for long periods of time ???? I want to know what the rifle is your are shooting at that level and what sort of custom loads and how you are maintaining that for extended periods of time. Come on buddy lets be real here carbon deposits and copper fouling are not good things at a certian point but none of us will EVER see diamonds or anything close to that.

[Robocop1051]

:laughing4: <lmao>

[tolbndfishin]

As far as this whole discussion is concerned, i dont pick sides, because i honestly think it depends on expectations, various factors (pressure, barrel material, etc), and each rifle.  What i will say is this: i have rifles, have shot rifles, all broken in or not in carious ways.  If i buy a krieger, ill do what they say.  Theres a reason they suggest it, i trust their experience enough to buy it, why wouldnt i break it in how they tell me?  And their reasoning is all about the throat, not the lands and grooves.  Makes sense to me, so why not.  I only know teo benchrest shooters, and the barrels they use dont get the break in procedure of any kind associated with shooting/cleaning it, buy they put so much work when it's being chambered, that i imagine they've accomplished nearly the same thing.  I feel like if a bullet needs to hop as small a distance as possible (yes, there are exceptions i know, so dont beat me up lol) to get into the barrel as smoothly as possible, if the throat has small irregularities from chamber reaming, shooting it an cleaning might help take care of that.  If u shoot half inch groups without a "proper" (notice the quotes please) break in, could it possibly have shot .4" or even .3" groups with that break-in?  Yes? Prove it.  No? Prove that.  Does it really matter to most shooters?  If it works for YOU, continue your method.  As for me, my krieger barrel gets whatever treatment krieger suggests.  And so on with any other brand.  But that all depends on what i expect.  I bought a chrome lined for my father's ar15, and i imagine itll get shot with a cleaning when he cleans the rifle, and i expect an inch or better, which is all he wants anyway.  If it shoots better, was that due to no break in?  Would it have shot better with it?  See my point?  Manage your expectations and develop your method with your experience and the words of those you trust. 

If i ever have the time and money, i would love to take a sampling of barrels (maybe 5 each brand of a few brands with diferent qualities) and test the theories on as equal footing as i could manage (then repeat in different calibers), but even after that, it wouldnt end the argument, nor should it lol.  Its part of why i like shooting.

Russ

[98Z5V]

I'm using a rainier arms 18" ultra match.

Contact Rainier - seriously.  If their barrel has been final finish lapped, before shipping, then there's nothing really to "break in."  It's already "perfect" from the barrel maker. 

If it hasn't been final finish lapped, then the Tubb Final Finish Ammo will speed that process up - that's what it's designed for, primarily.  <thumbsup>

[tolbndfishin]

98Z5V,

      I neither agree nor disagree with your statement on fact because i have no experience concerning rainier barrels.  I do ask this:  when they lap their barrels, are they paying close attention to the throat area, or are they lapping only to take care of the bullet path through the "meat" of the barrel, AFTER its made its transition past the reamed throat area?  I wasnt aware they took care of lapping the throat (but only probably because i havent asked them).  If its something that would legitimately (i know im only theorizing based on some unfounded ideas) increase accuracy, why dont more companies do it?  Is it because the break in procedure some suggest does a better job than lapping, or because it's not necessary at all and is only some dumb idea thought up by a redneck on an AR forum?  Lol I dunno, just tossing out what i hope to be some discussion worthy ideas.  The initial question was to find out, and learn more about rainier barrels.  The rest is for the purpose of discussion and learning

Russ

[98Z5V]

Wow - multi-part question(s) here...  Let's see if I can get this edit right, without fucking it up.  <laughs>  Cold-bore shot here on the answer, and if it comes out right...  <lmao>

98Z5V,

      I neither agree nor disagree with your statement on fact because i have no experience concerning rainier barrels.  I do ask this:  when they lap their barrels, are they paying close attention to the throat area, or are they lapping only to take care of the bullet path through the "meat" of the barrel, AFTER its made its transition past the reamed throat area?  I wasnt aware they took care of lapping the throat (but only probably because i havent asked them).

That is the exact reason why I stated "contact Rainier Arms, and find out if it's final finish lapped."  Custom barrel makers do that service for you, and you can mount their barrel right out of the box, and expect "match accuracy."  I'm a BIG fan of Rainier Arms, and I'm not doubting them in the least with their match barrels - I just haven't bought one, and have never asked them these questions, myself.  I've bought other match barrels, asked those questions, and decided my own course of action with them, though. 

If its something that would legitimately (i know im only theorizing based on some unfounded ideas) increase accuracy, why dont more companies do it? 

Money.  It's that simple.  Producing a real match barrel involves alot of steps (including final finish lapping, so the barrel is truly "ready to go" as soon as you mount it, and more importantly,...  it takes time.  That's why custom barrels are almost never a "add to cart" item.  There's real work involved, from people that are proficient in making "accurate" barrels, and that takes time.  Time equals money, and badass barrels that shoot right out of the box are never "cheap."  It takes alot of machining, working, finishing, to make a barrel that repeatably "dead nuts accurate" out of the box, from a manufacturer.  That is the exact reason as to the "Why is this so expensive?..." when you're buying a barrel.

Is it because the break in procedure some suggest does a better job than lapping, or because it's not necessary at all and is only some dumb idea thought up by a redneck on an AR forum? 

There are alot of barrels out there that claim certain accuracies, but are mass-produced.  You can't mass-produce a true "match barrel."  A true match barrel is almost exclusively hand-produced.  There are alot of barrel manufacturers that can produce a quality barrel, that's almost "match" in quality, but with it being mass-produced, some corners must be cut. 

Hence, the whole reason for my suggestion of calling them, and finding out what they do.  You will NEVER find a true match barrel that is cheap.

Lol I dunno, just tossing out what i hope to be some discussion worthy ideas.  The initial question was to find out, and learn more about rainier barrels.  The rest is for the purpose of discussion and learning

Russ

[98Z5V]

I nailed the multi-part...  :o <laughs>

EDIT - had to make a typo correction - didn't "nail it..."  :'(

[tolbndfishin]

For those of you coming to this forum recently, and not understanding this site for what it is, ill educate you.  That set of questions i asked, i have asked in some form or another in other forums around the great blue internet.  This is the first time i have received an answer with ANY civility.  He prompted more room for discussion, imho, which is what i wanted, but he also answered my questions as asked, and did it with knowledge and understanding of what i was asking.  I have never experienced attacks on this site for my opinions or questions, and its why i will stay as long as they let me.  Thanks 98Z.  My comfort here grows, and respect for you guys continues.  I have more discussion points on this topic ill post when i have a real keyboard, some more time, and am not so tired.  LSU took a lot out of my sanity tonite trying to lose that game against South Carolina.

Russ

[98Z5V]

Hey, brother, don't thank me - the info should be out there, somewhere.  If you've been attacked or berated for your questions before...  then the people suck.  <laughs>

There are a few people here that have had custom barrels ordered, bought, waited, etc - and those barrels are nice.  I'm not saying you can "replace" a custom barrel from a reputable barrel maker with somthing of lesser quality, and "fix" it yourself - by NO means am I saying that...  :o

Bottom line is this - if you can live with a non-custom barrel, but one from somebody that's "doing most of it" in their manufacture, then you can turn that barrel into one damn great shooter. 

I have three barrels from Wilson Arms (not "Wilson Combat," by the way - two completely different companies).  Now, Wilson Arms makes a damn fine barrel.  The three that I have are:  16" .223 Wylde chambered 1:8 twist barrel from Nordic Components - great.  18" .223 Wylde chambered 1:8 twist barrel from Nordic Components - great.  (Seeing a trend here...  ;D).  20" .223 Wylde chambered 1:8 twist barrel from Rock River Arms - great.  All those barrels are stainless barrels, too. 

Now, all of them were treated to some Tubb Final Finish Ammo (kits, packages, whatever - great stuff).  I didn't contact the manufacturers about whether they final finished the barrels for match accuracy - based on their price points.  I had the Tubb FF ammo on hand already, and suspected the barrels weren't done in that manner, and just shot the Tubb FF Ammo. 

Definitely didn't hurt them, in ANY manner.  <thumbsup>

If you buy a true match barrel, pay the money for it, wait the time for it, etc.,  then you will have a badass barrel right out of the blocks.  You can still get some damn fine barrels, do a little work with them, and wind up with some phenomenal shooters. 

[unforgiven]

<thumbsup> +1

[Jgun]

    Someone gave me an armorer's kit from Sentry solutions. before trying it I thought I'd take a look at their site to see what they claim it does. I found a link to this article that I found interesting. I was wondering if anyone here has tried it or knows someone that has?

    /www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn_II.asp

[Jgun]

Looks like I made an error in the link in my previous post.

            www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn_II.asp

            www.sentrysolutions.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=SENTRY

[Dusty44]

I bought a Rainier barrel a couple of months ago;  an 18 inch White Oak match SS barrel in .223 Wylde.  All I can say is that when I looked down the tube from each end the surface of the lands and the surface of the chamber and all that I could see looked mirror shiny.  The outside surface is sand-blast matte except the gas block seating band which was so smooth and shiny it was difficult to look at.