Home defense shotgun

[Madhouse]

Ok, there are different schools of thought on keeping a shell in the tube or not.

Personally, I do not.  If, God forbid, someone else gets hold of it, they may be unfamiliar with the operation and not able to release the pump slide to get a round in.  Also, racking the pump takes almost no time, and the unmistakable sound may be a nice pants-filling deterrent to the bad guy to continue into the house.

I got beat up a bit on another board for this practice.  Thoughts?

<munch>

[J.Boyette]

I think you are spot on.

I do not leave any firearms with a round chambered unless its on my body "pistol in holster, rifle slung"

Now for a shotgun of any kind, manually operated or auto leaving it loaded is just a bad way to roll. to many people get hurt of all ages with loaded firearms.

If the time it takes me to rack a Moss 500 is going to get me killed, I was screwed before I got to the shotgun anyhow.

thats how I look at it.

now on the side story, the shells that are loaded.

In a typical 5rnd tube I teach to load 1 slug, 2 buck shot, 2 bird shot in that order because you will shoot the bird shot first.

If the bird shot does not work I hit them with buck, if that fails I hit them with a slug, if all that fails I need to reload and get moving ASAP!!!!! anyhow.

[Madhouse]

Excellent points on the shells.  I keep seven rounds of turkey load in mine.  I will re-evaluate this now.

[J.Boyette]

MH,

The idea is to use the least amount of force as possible. Also the other side of the idea is the BG will be in the open, more at the start of the fight, as I miss, he runs cover or concealment becomes real and the ammunition section ramps up also.

If the BG starts with  cover or concealment its an ambush. At that time speed and violence of action wins. So it does not matter what kind of ammo I got.

[SWshooter]

I keep a M-4 clone loaded in mag and chamber with the safety on. It has a laser and a tac light and is my house gun. I keep it in the safe that is in my bedroom, only I have the key. I wouldn't keep a loaded firearm anywhere unless it is in a locked container or on my person.

[Matt.Cross]

I suppose I don't think as much about whether or not rounds are chambered as I do about ACCESS. In other words, be able to control access to my loaded weapon. I don't want to have to both unlock my weapon and load it before I can bring it to bear, one of the reasons my carry is a 1911, using it is a matter of holding it and thumb sweeping a lever. Keeping the number of actions required to prepare the arm for use to a minimum is really my goal when it comes a defense-use weapon. I think this way because I don't give myself the benefit of the doubt that I'm faster than a bad guy when he interrupts my sleep @ 2am, and I'd hate for my last words to be "Oh crap!". Just my 2 cents worth fellas... :)

[J.Boyette]

Matt,

Great points, and if it works for you then go with it.

I think that everyone has ways to skin a cat, good and sometimes bad ways. Take from all, learn it and then decide if that idea works for you, or just parts of it. Then your personal tool box is better because you have found a way to operate, or a way not too.

[SWshooter]

I am a definite believer in the KISS principle for 2am home defense. I like the point and click method, that is your basic Glock or DA revolver. I keep a rifle handy because I live in a bad part of town, and am often woken by either screams or loud noises in the wee hours of the night, for interior use I keep a Glock 19 with a Lasermax and a tactical light on the shelf above the rifle. I also have an HK-91 and a half dozen loaded mags available, just in case someone in a vehicle becomes critically annoying and requires ballistic persuasion to move along. If you think I'm a little paranoid, there have been 5 persons murdered within 6 blocks of my house in the last 10 years, one by drive by.

[98Z5V]

I also have an HK-91 and a half dozen loaded mags available, just in case someone in a vehicle becomes critically annoying and requires ballistic persuasion to move along.

That rationale just made me laugh my arse off.  Excellent use of words.  <thumbsup>

I personally load a 75gr Hornady TAP round into the chamber of a 14.5" (pinned and welded, i.e. "legal") AR every night, and load a 230gr Speer Gold Dot into the chamber of the Kimber Desert Warrior.  I sleep peacefully, and they're nearby.  The middle of the night, awakened from your favorite dream and half stupid, is not a good time to be doing anything except basic reactions.  Target ID, safety lever, and whatever has to come after that.  Verbal commands from you will happen, whether you know it or not - it's almost like a self-protection version of Tourette's.  Keep It Simple, but you must Keep It Safe - your house might be different than mine, so "safe" depends on your surroundings, and not mine.

FWIW, I used to load a Moss 930 SPX every night, bird-bird-buck-buck.  Nothing in the chamber.  Rack the charging handle, and it was ready to go.  From what I've seen about buck penetration (wallboard) vice 5.56 penetration, the 5.56 gun is now the primary.

[survivalshop]

I have a different out look . I keep any fire arm loaded if its in a position to be used for self defence . Cambering a round in a defensive encounter is ,IMO, flirting with disaster.

All this racking of slides only gives your adversary knowledge you don't need to give them . Not to mention if there is a FF ( jam ) or the round was not chambered & you think it was.

I can see if you have small children at home , the situation changes . I no longer have a small child at home ,so my preparedness is different than ones who do .

The 1100 I keep with "00" is cocked & locked. It may be needed by my wife & she is not familiar with its loading (yet ) so all she has to do is push the safety off & pull the trigger .

Just fumbling around with a slide release on a pump gun is bad enough in the middle of the night.

Every one has there way of preparedness & what ever you are comfortable with is a good way .

[imschur]

Im in an active part of the city myself. Loaded 870 ready to go at all times, S&W 642 on my alarm clock at bed time. Cold Steel Recon Tanto 180 degrees behind my computer chair. Katana behind the seat of my truck. Hickory axe handle hidden on my deck. Axe under the tarp with my lawn mower and snow blower.....and many more :)

I like being prepared

[imschur]

you know it's funny but there's hardly a week where I don't have some sort of incident within the area of the two buildings that share my parking lot.

I almost forgot my backup

[SWshooter]

I see your training him properly. One of my favorite quotes from good old Elmer," I believe in letting every man scratch his own fleas his own way."

[308reloaded]

I never leave any thing with one in chamber, I do have loaded weapon somewhere close at all times.  moss 500 12 ga. 2rnds, 5-shot, 2 rnds 000 buckshot, rest in slugs.

i even load 22LR weapons with first 2 rounds birdshot.  mostly not fatel but will stop attacker if sight is gone, and threat of shot in groin area stops just about everyone.  .  tell them you will shot them dead they dont care , tell them they will no longer have love life. they will stop.

[Matt.Cross]

I never leave any thing with one in chamber, I do have loaded weapon somewhere close at all times.  moss 500 12 ga. 2rnds, 5-shot, 2 rnds 000 buckshot, rest in slugs.

i even load 22LR weapons with first 2 rounds birdshot.  mostly not fatel but will stop attacker if sight is gone, and threat of shot in groin area stops just about everyone.  .  tell them you will shot them dead they dont care , tell them they will no longer have love life. they will stop.

A reasonable and logical person would stop, but in the event the intruder is hyped up on one or more drugs and doesn't know he's not invincible, you would have to be able to put more than two rounds in him/her before they can get to you. It's a chance I personally wouldn't take. On top of that, inevitably you could end up in court having to try to explain to a jury exactly why you not only shot the 'victim' three times or more, but with two different types of rounds as well. Trust me, a prosecutor would have a field day with that, and "excessive force" would be the phrase for the day. It's kinda funny how my perception of break-in scenarios changed once I learned NC's laws concerning them. Kinda disappointing on the whole, but nice to know how to defend yourself without winding up in prison.

[308reloaded]

you know it's funny but there's hardly a week where I don't have some sort of incident within the area of the two buildings that share my parking lot.

I almost forgot my backup

beautiful animal.    fantasic color

[308reloaded]

A reasonable and logical person would stop, but in the event the intruder is hyped up on one or more drugs and doesn't know he's not invincible, you would have to be able to put more than two rounds in him/her before they can get to you. It's a chance I personally wouldn't take. On top of that, inevitably you could end up in court having to try to explain to a jury exactly why you not only shot the 'victim' three times or more, but with two different types of rounds as well. Trust me, a prosecutor would have a field day with that, and "excessive force" would be the phrase for the day. It's kinda funny how my perception of break-in scenarios changed once I learned NC's laws concerning them. Kinda disappointing on the whole, but nice to know how to defend yourself without winding up in prison.

if you have a way out you have to take.  you need to be in fear for your life, so scared I dont know how many shots I fired,  I was so scared I thought I thought I was going to die.

[Madhouse]

Obviously there is differing methods, and I think as with almost everything, it comes down to familiarity and training.  I keep the 1300 in a spot where I know it is and keep it positioned in a way that enables me to quickly handle it, I've drilled on bringing it to bear and getting it to condition one.

Train, people.  That's your best bet.

[KellyTTE]

I was going to reply, but seeing as this is mostly moderators and admins..

Yah..

<munch>

[Matt.Cross]

LOL

Jump right in, so far as I know, noone here is overbearing. ;)

[KellyTTE]

LOL

Jump right in, so far as I know, noone here is overbearing. ;)

Yeah but I can be.  <lmao>

[Dusty44]

Texas is one of the states with "Castle Doctrine."  That usually covers the homeowner or resident  for criminal charges.  There seems to always be a survivor of the perp/intruder who files civil charges?

[Madhouse]

I was going to reply, but seeing as this is mostly moderators and admins..

Yah..

<munch>

I would love to hear your input.

[imschur]

I would love to hear your input.

Me too  <thumbsup>

[KellyTTE]

Well ok then...

First, I think that shotguns are silly for home defense weapons. There's a reason that LE is moving away from shotguns to patrol rifles, but that's an entirely different thread.

Your question is whether or not a shotgun should be kept with a shell chambered or not. You didn't specify whether or not there were children or other mitigating factors so I'm going to proceed as if there are not. If I'm wrong, adjust accordingly.

We as a gun owning society are quick to tell the anti-gun folks that: "its the person, not the weapon, the weapon is simply an inanimate object" and that's a true statement. I personally have loaded guns all over my house, generally a couple of rifles, several pistols, etc. Between a LE wife and my work, its sort of how things are around here. In all the years my house has been like this, none of those weapons have magically gone off. If the wife and I consistently obey the first of the universal rules of gun handling: "Treat all weapons as if they are loaded", I don't expect this safety record will change any time soon.

Anyhow, in my mind, if a weapons stated purpose is to be used in a self-defense role, then it needs to be instantly ready to perform in that function, with the fewest number of steps possible. You cannot predict the amount of time that you will have to respond, the way that you will physiologically react or the state of your assailant. Reducing the number of steps that you have to perform to use the weapon is simply smart business. Larry Vickers says that you'll perform at about 60% of your BEST when under stress. So reducing the actions that you have to take while under life or death stress strikes me as a wise move. But that's just me.

As for relying on the mythical 'shotgun racking sound' to deconflict the situation is foolhardy at best. An opponent may be suffering from adrenaline induced auditory exclusion (deafness) and might not even hear your actions. My take has always been that if its time to deploy that weapon, then the time for negotiations and intimidation is past. Don't rely on that aspect, even in passing.

Kelly