geistacwm Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Gentleman. Just bought my 10th armalite and ran into what im told is a common issue. The bcg in question is early. Probably 2004 or older. It seems there is a ridge in the inner channel and if the bolt is pushed too deep into the carrier, the gas rings stick on that channel. The general consensus is brute force. A call to armalite confirmed this. Well, after numerous attempts with a padded dowel, vice and hammer, ive had no luck. Though it turns freely, it won't come out. Thinking the seller was aware of the issue. Any ideas? Put it to the press? Edited December 29, 2014 by geistacwm
FaRKle! Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 You could try heating up the carrier.
Microgunner Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 I'd say it's time for a new bcg.
geistacwm Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Ok. Torched it and sacrificed the firing pin, my knuckles, and the rings obviously.... Success!! Appears undamaged. A testament to american steel and stubbornness. Edited December 30, 2014 by geistacwm
survivalshop Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) I would replace the gas rings , but the real question is why it has a ridge for the Gas Rings hang up on, for this to happen in the first place . Edited December 30, 2014 by survivalshop
geistacwm Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Posted December 30, 2014 The rings are shredded, so of course they'll get swapped out. Probably the fp too.
Zebra644 Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 Sounds as though you may want too think about taking a small bore brush and spin it inside the area it may help remove / polish any burrs.
geistacwm Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Posted December 30, 2014 Of course. Though any damage to the channel would be at the ridge point. Going to take great care not to let it fall in again.
planeflyer21 Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 I would replace the gas rings , but the real question is why it has a ridge for the Gas Rings hang up on, for this to happen in the first place . Yeah, that's the real question. R2 to droid phone! <laughs>
Rsquared Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 Hmm. Odd. For a common issue........I've never heard of it. Granted, I don't pretend to know everything........or anything for that matter. Sounds like a hone job is in order. Otherwise.....it'll definitely happen again at some point. Why did the firing pin have to be sacrificed? It wouldn't drop out after removing the retaining pin? Just curious.
98Z5V Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 I can't believe Ron's Armalite had a failure...
blue109 Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 someone had this same issue in here a year or two ago. if I remember, they managed to hammer it out, but killed the rings in the process. uncommon, but not unheard of.
geistacwm Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Posted December 30, 2014 The cam and retaining pin must be removed for the bolt fall deeper into the carrier. The firing pin was used to take the force of the drift instead of the rear of the bolt and was beat up in the process.
98Z5V Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 Pics of what happened? Since it's apart now, and all. Was the bolt pushed too far into the carrier, and a gas ring caught some internal ridge in the carrier?
guruofhotrod Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 I've run across this situation, on some DPMS type carriers where there is a relief cut behind the bore that the gas rings ride in - if, when assembling the bolt into the carrier, you push the bolt in too far (past where the cam pin would allow) the gas rings will expand into the relieved area, retaining the bolt deeper than where it would normally reside. When that happens, you typically can't install the cam pin and the remedy is to physically drive the bolt free which normally destroys the gas rings
geistacwm Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Posted December 30, 2014 98z5v. Correct. Ill have a hell of a time getting a shot of the ridge, or relief in the bcg. Short of that, all pictured would be a beat up firing pin and rings. What was surprising was the force required to free it.
Zebra644 Posted December 31, 2014 Report Posted December 31, 2014 I can't believe Ron's Armalite had a failure... It wasn't a failure, it was an example of what not to do lol.
Rsquared Posted December 31, 2014 Report Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) I can't believe Ron's Armalite had a failure... I guess every week of manufacturing has a Friday. And even my beloved Armalite isn't immune to it. Even a machinist can have a fuked up day. Though.....it still surprises me that this would've made it outta QC. But, I guess anything can happen Edited December 31, 2014 by Rsquared
geistacwm Posted December 31, 2014 Author Report Posted December 31, 2014 I was told this issue exists with many early carriers by a tech dude at armalite. That said, my other non-fa carriers dont have the ridge. Ill see if i can drum up some pictures.
Sisco Posted December 31, 2014 Report Posted December 31, 2014 If compatible, I would replace the carrier with an updated one without the ridge, if it is compatible with the older rifles. Armalite Tech Dude should be able to answer that. Then you don't have to worry about a repeat.
geistacwm Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Posted January 1, 2015 Its virtually impossible to happen when firing or when the cam is installed, so i see no need to replace it.
guruofhotrod Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 I know it's been a couple of months and the OP found a remedy to the problem but I just ran across the precautionary notice I was looking for regarding the bolt stuck in the carrier condition: http://www.surplusammo.com/saa-complete-308-bolt-carrier-group-nickel-boron/ it's the only vendor that I've seen acknowledge the possibility of that happening but, I've seen it happen with other brands, you just have to be careful during assembly.
hogwylde Posted April 6, 2015 Report Posted April 6, 2015 How can this be a new or unknown issue?? There is a warning on page 47 of the Armalite AR-10 owners manual that specifically warns you not to do this..... "CAUTION: ONLY INSERT THE BOLT INTO THE CARRIER FAR ENOUGH TO INSERT THE CAM PIN. IF YOU INSERT THE BOLT TOO DEEPLY WITHOUT THE CAM PIN IN PLACE, THE BOLT RING MAY JAM IN THE BACK OF THE CARRIER. IF THIS HAPPENS, YOU MAY NEED TO WIGGLE THE BOLT TO REMOVE IT. IN SOME CASES, IT MIGHT REQUIRE DRIVING THE BOLT FORWARD WITH A BRASS ROD, DESTROYING THE BOLT RING. ONCE THE CAM PIN IS IN PLACE, THE BOLT CAN'T BE PUSHED FAR ENOUGH INTO THE CARRIER TO CAUSE A PROBLEM."
98Z5V Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 How can this be a new or unknown issue?? There is a warning on page 47 of the Armalite AR-10 owners manual that specifically warns you not to do this..... It's not a new or unknown issue - it's just the first time you've seen mention of it on this board. Welcome aboard, Newb. <thumbsup> The OP - who is not a "Big AR" new guy - even opened up his first post with this statement: Gentleman. Just bought my 10th armalite and ran into what im told is a common issue. Glad you're here. Carry on, now...
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