Trouble for guns no matter who wins election

[98Z5V]

Industry pro predicts trouble for guns no matter who wins election 

http://www.guns.com/2016/10/17/industry-pro-predicts-trouble-for-guns-no-matter-who-wins-election/

10/17/16 | Opinion by Eve Flanigan

On the opening night of recent gun writers’ conference in Orlando, Jason Wilson, founder and CEO of Wyoming-based Lucid Optics, made a statement that would be brought up in quiet, side discussions for the duration of the event.

“No matter who wins, it will cost the industry,” said Wilson, whose once-small business now has distributors in 14 countries.  He might be onto something.

Wilson isn’t shy about saying that some components of his products are made overseas. Processes like lens coating, he says, aren’t even available in the States.  And, according to Wilson, China is the only place in the world making batteries. Wilson is emphatic that many companies claim to sell US-made goods, but closer examination can prove that many aren’t being completely truthful.

Maybe it’s because 2016 was the year I became friends with a Chinese American family that has several successful gun-related ventures, or maybe it’s because I’ve started to look and think closely at some of my own favorite gear and realize quite a lot of it is foreign-made, in many cases because I choose not to spend more than necessary on a piece of kit.  Maybe it’s having looked at a clothing designers’ blog and discovered many complaints about how hard it is to begin a business relationship with a domestic manufacturer, while Vietnamese and Chinese vendors are offering concierge-like services to even small-volume startups.

Whatever the reason, I’ll admit that I’ve come to see the hypocrisy in my own and others’ recommendations to buy American. If we were really that interested in acting on our purchasing ideals, after all, a number of big-name tactical goods suppliers might not even exist. Instead, they’re our basket of adorables.

Wilson’s statement isn’t so much surprising as it is sobering, assuming he’s right.  Gun owners already expect a massive fight to prevent new forms of legislative control. Many are resigned to rebellion or lawlessness if restriction creep by legislation or abuse of executive orders continues.  In conversation, those conditions are usually followed by the phrase “if Clinton is elected.”

But is a Trump election really that much rosier?  Wilson has run some numbers based on Trump’s promised import tariffs.  As I understand it, he expects to lose nearly half a million per year under Trump.  Yes, it may bring some aspects of Lucid production to Wyoming from overseas, but at a cost. Trump has clearly promised import tariffs, but has been less vocal on other business-affecting issues like the minimum wage floor, and other regulations on labor and environment.

I used to enthusiastically carry my e-waste to the annual recycling event until seeing a video of Chinese children, many with scars from work-related burns, walking through an acid sea of discarded electronics to harvest nickel. While I still feel more responsible for my own corner of the world than theirs, the image is a reminder that there is no zero-sum equation.

Are gun owners ready to pay more, possibly a lot more, for the same products that don’t seem so cheap, even now? Will Second Amendment supporters be so enthusiastic about not allowing the takeover of a right by a government that can’t possibly guarantee personal safety, in a world where national security must be won, repeatedly, by battles large and small?  I sure hope so.

 

[jtallen83]

It is very sad that we have allowed basic vital industries like batteries and lead to leave the country, We can't expect to recreate these without a cost, am I ready to pay more for my childrens future? HELL YES! An unwillingness to pay a little more is what has left the next generations with this whole mess of an economy in the first place.

[survivalshop]

On 10/18/2016 at 8:24 PM, 98Z5V said:

used to enthusiastically carry my e-waste to the annual recycling event until seeing a video of Chinese children, many with scars from work-related burns, walking through an acid sea of discarded electronics to harvest nickel. While I still feel more responsible for my own corner of the world than theirs, the image is a reminder that there is no zero-sum equation.

 

 (Did these children have big sad eyes,) what does this statement have anything thing to do with anything . Am I missing something. Its happening now .

  I always try to buy made in USA .

Edited October 20, 2016 by survivalshop

[jtallen83]

8 hours ago, survivalshop said:

 

 (Did these children have big sad eyes,) what does this statement have anything thing to do with anything . Am I missing something. Its happening now .

The fact that the Chinese government is allowing the poisoning of its own people and environment to satisfy the worlds thirst for batteries could be a factor for our children. The Chinese people see this issue as America exploiting them even though the chinese elite are profiting from the business. If they should ever become an ultra nationalist, war like state it could have serious repercussions on us, i.e. we cant make our own batteries and we will be fighting the chinese, a lose lose for our children.

[survivalshop]

4 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

The fact that the Chinese government is allowing the poisoning of its own people and environment to satisfy the worlds thirst for batteries could be a factor for our children. The Chinese people see this issue as America exploiting them even though the chinese elite are profiting from the business. If they should ever become an ultra nationalist, war like state it could have serious repercussions on us, i.e. we cant make our own batteries and we will be fighting the chinese, a lose lose for our children.

   There has been & always will be people in the lowest income , poorest people , scraping for anything they can get for $ . This isn't something new & we have been in wars for my entire life , why would this election or the fact that the article mentioned Trump along with this statement , make this statement relevant ?

 We all here , I'm sure ,  want to make our country self sufficient & not allow another country to have the sole market on any product that can effect us , but this is what the Gov. & our big Manufacturers have done . All because of Greed !  Greed has put this country in a bad spot & their is plenty of blame to go around , including the uninformed people (voters ) of this Country .

 My point was about that statement , was that it put an assumption that if Trump was elected we would have our children going through Dumps looking for anything to make a dime ! ( like Hitlery will make it all better for those Children  )

[planeflyer21]

1 hour ago, jtallen83 said:

The fact that the Chinese government is allowing the poisoning of its own people and environment to satisfy the worlds thirst for batteries could be a factor for our children. The Chinese people see this issue as America exploiting them even though the chinese elite are profiting from the business. If they should ever become an ultra nationalist, war like state it could have serious repercussions on us, i.e. we cant make our own batteries and we will be fighting the chinese, a lose lose for our children.

While we can now see kids in India and China tearing apart electronics for scrap of metals, we still have yet to get to the HUGE battery replacement for vehicles and houses that is yet to happen.  My understanding is that the lithium ion (and other whizbang new batteries) are 100 times more toxic and 1000 times more dangerous when breaking them apart for components.

Another thing left to future generations.

[Sisco]

I think this is exactly right. Trump's tariff policies are going to bite us in the butt almost as bad as Hilary's would have, just on the other cheek. We are hosed either way.

[EngrBob]

Damn, I looked all over my AR 308 and couldn't find where the battery went?  Couldn't find a place on my 870, or the Springfield 1911, or either of the Glocks, the three Rugers, either AR-15, the Creedmore or the Grendel!

[mrmackc]

Bob,

I don't have any batteries on any of my stuff ether and I also couldn't find any on my fishing rods or hooks,  nor my 1980 15 HP Seahorse  outboard motor,

Am I overlooking something ?

[Sisco]

If you have a car newer than 2005, try getting replacements for the electronics or keyless ignitions without using Chinese parts.

[shepp]

15 minutes ago, Sisco said:

If you have a car newer than 2005, try getting replacements for the electronics or keyless ignitions without using Chinese parts.

Looks like I'm keeping my rusty ol 2004 lol

[planeflyer21]

15 minutes ago, Sisco said:

If you have a car newer than 2005, try getting replacements for the electronics or keyless ignitions without using Chinese parts.

Shoot, my '76 Chevy was ripe with parts from China on the interior.  Blew my mind.

[Magwa]

I hate this type of talk it is why we are the problem not the Chinese if we need batteries we need to develop the tech to make them ourselves like anything else in the 60,s and 50,s we made everything period people get off your ass and lets take back our country. quit buying foreign cars, I hate hunting clothes that are made over seas they are junk and you pay a ton... will be interesting to see how Trump does I know his son is a gun nut and wants to see the paperwork gone for suppressors so it all might not be bad..

[98Z5V]

Speaking of Trump:

Trump's pro-Second Amendment platform could end gun sales boom

Published November 22, 2016

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/22/trumps-pro-second-amendment-platform-could-end-gun-sales-boom.html

President-elect Donald Trump is expected to push to relax gun laws when he takes office, but significant changes in the firearms industry began as soon as he was elected – and some put the law of unintended consequences squarely in the cross hairs.

For instance, while Trump’s unapologetic pro-Second Amendment stance may be good for gun owners, it has already dealt a blow to manufacturers, who enjoyed record sales throughout President Obama’s eight years in office. Stocks in companies like Smith & Wesson and Sturm, Ruger & Co. plunged on Nov. 9, and experts say it is because Trump’s election erased fears that guns would become harder to get.

“A lot of people were buying guns simply because they were worried Hillary Clinton’s regulations would make it more costly and more difficult to buy guns, and people are not going to feel quite the need to go out and buy guns now,” Crime Prevention Research Center President John Lott told FoxNews.com. “I think the stock market is a pretty good predictor of what’s going to happen, and the fact that you see drops in stock prices by almost 20 percentage points –I think that’s pretty significant.”

While the government does not publish an official number of gun sales, background checks, a gauge of how many people try to buy guns, skyrocketed under President Obama. In 2008, 12.71 million background checks were conducted, a number on pace to double this year, to set an all-time record.

The prospect of a pro-gun control administration of Hillary Clinton following Obama, together with a campaign that put gun rights in the spotlight, was the likely driver of the firearms boom, acknowledged Joshua Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. But he was skeptical that a rise in 2016 gun sales or an anticipated dip in the coming year will have a major effect on crime.

“Gun violence is obviously a complicated issue and doesn’t just turn around because of a month or two of different sales,” Horwitz said. “There are so many guns in America that a blip in the sales rate is not going to change the death and injury rate in any meaningful fashion, and it’s just too early to tell.”

The weekend following Trump’s election, arms vendors from all over the country set up their exhibits in Oklahoma for the semi-annual Wanenmacher’s Tulsa Arms Show, the largest gun and knife show in the world. Show founder Joe Wanenmacher told FoxNews.com sales were steady, but would’ve been through the roof if Clinton had won.

“Had Secretary Clinton been elected, it would have been panic sales, because gun shows were in her sights to either be eliminated, or make it so difficult to sell that they wouldn’t be effective,” Wanenmacher said. “When there is complacency, there isn’t the motive to buy guns in anticipation of something bad happening.”

One attendee agreed.

“I think if Trump hadn’t won, it would have been chaos,” she said. “It was a relaxed atmosphere and everyone was upbeat.”

Fear of new gun control laws was not the only sales driver in recent years, said National Shooting Sports Foundation spokesman Mike Bazinet. He said local crime also spurred people to buy guns, and does not expect that factor to diminish in the near future.

“There is no question that the concern over political situations over the past several years, where people may have feared additional restrictions of access to firearms was a motivator, but it wasn’t the only one,” Bazinet said. “Our retailers tell us that a more important factor is local crime.”

Trump has said he intends to work with state and local governments to repeal gun-free zones, do away with the special tax on silencers, encourage expansion of conceal carry laws and carry out a host of other pro-gun industry initiatives. Advocates of gun control say such measures will put more people at risk of becoming victims of gun violence, but Trump and other Second Amendment stalwarts disagree.

“If you get rid of gun-free zones and make it easier for people to carry, you will deter criminals,” Lott told Fox News. “You will be able to reduce crime.”

The irony is that an administration more sympathetic to the gun industry could hurt its bottom line.

“There is no doubt that the firearms industry will not be treated as a social disease by the Trump Administration,” Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, told Fox News. “The president-elect will make the Second Amendment great again.”

[Sisco]

Yeah I agree, we need to develop the tech to manufacture batteries if only for an essential defense industry standpoint.

4 hours ago, Magwa said:

I hate this type of talk it is why we are the problem not the Chinese if we need batteries we need to develop the tech to make them ourselves like anything else in the 60,s and 50,s we made everything period people get off your ass and lets take back our country. quit buying foreign cars, I hate hunting clothes that are made over seas they are junk and you pay a ton... will be interesting to see how Trump does I know his son is a gun nut and wants to see the paperwork gone for suppressors so it all might not be bad..

Some things are more important than a profit and this is one of them.

[Magwa]

indeed I agree and I do not care if their bottom line which was panic driven returns to normal everyday profits and ye to no tax stamp on  supressors.

[planeflyer21]

42 minutes ago, Magwa said:

indeed I agree and I do not care if their bottom line which was panic driven returns to normal everyday profits and ye to no tax stamp on  supressors.

Was looking at ammo online yesterday.  Apparently $80/500 .22LR is a good deal now.  Screw that.

We need one of or both of two things:  lower prices and/or better wages.

[Magwa]

we can get bricks here for in the 30 buck range and it is not to hard to find......

 

[blue109]

I just got my P22 put back together too! 

[shepp]

Just saw federal semi auto 375 rounds for >30$ a box may have been closer to 20$

[beachmaster]

I honestly don't care if products come up in price due to import tariffs and bringing jobs back to America. Those jobs coming back to America will help the economy, fight inflation, and then the prices wont seem so high, while giving us a superior product.

I am worried about gun control with Trump despite his seemingly on point nominations across the board, but not because of tariffs.

[planeflyer21]

21 minutes ago, beachmaster said:

I am worried about gun control with Trump despite his seemingly on point nominations across the board, but not because of tariffs.

Lots of people right now are pushing for "universal CCW permit" recognition in all 50 states, or the 50 state reciprocity.

Bad idea IMO.  It will be dumbed down to the loudest states' levels, i.e., New York and California.

[shepp]

1 minute ago, planeflyer21 said:

Lots of people right now are pushing for "universal CCW permit" recognition in all 50 states, or the 50 state reciprocity.

Bad idea IMO.  It will be dumbed down to the loudest states' levels, i.e., New York and California.

Agreed 

[jtallen83]

19 minutes ago, planeflyer21 said:

Lots of people right now are pushing for "universal CCW permit" recognition in all 50 states, or the 50 state reciprocity.

Bad idea IMO.  It will be dumbed down to the loudest states' levels, i.e., New York and California.

Back to the origins is where we need to go. The federal government's job under the second amendment is to insure our right to bear arms is not infringed, and that means infringed on by the state, any state, any county, any city. No permits needed, no NFA, no interference from any government. This may seem radical by today's standards but just 100 years ago it was a fact of life. True Liberty is dangerous, just not as dangerous as a tyrannical government.

[beachmaster]

I fully support 50 state reciprocity with NO ccw permit.

 

;-)