Vegas Shooting

[DNP]

I have a family member that was a facial reconstructive surgeon. He put a lot of failed attempts back together...or as much together as he could. Long shotguns were usually to blame. Put it under the chin and have to reach down to pull the trigger which would cause them to tilt their head back a little. Messy deal. 

[Para308]

Belt-fed weapons! 

[Dane Armory]

AZ Congressman was talking about the House Bill which will ban the Bumpstocks production and sells but not banning any that are already in circulation .

[shepp]

2 hours ago, DNP said:

I have a family member that was a facial reconstructive surgeon. He put a lot of failed attempts back together...or as much together as he could. Long shotguns were usually to blame. Put it under the chin and have to reach down to pull the trigger which would cause them to tilt their head back a little. Messy deal. 

 

[Alamo]

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/10/11/forensic-acoustic-proof-of-second-shooter-in-the-las-vegas-massacre/

[survivalshop]

 The Security guard has gone underground .

https://www.infowars.com/mystery-injured-mandalay-bay-security-guard-jesus-campos-vanishes/

[survivalshop]

5 hours ago, Alamo said:

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/10/11/forensic-acoustic-proof-of-second-shooter-in-the-las-vegas-massacre/

 Thats an interesting video , I learned something .

[DNP]

I learned that dude is pretty full of himself. 

Not saying I don't trust his method, but I think he's got a handful of factors he's convieniently not considering. what are the report times for .308?  Do we know all of the calibers used yet?i see he lined up the end shots, however the peaks of each frequency will create a signature that should be able to be verified between each other. What is the margin of error in these calculations and how much does the range of the shooter fluctuate when accounting for the error?  

[jtallen83]

He picks one spot in the middle of the concert and draws his 250 yard circle around it, why not use the spot the recording was made? I think he talks a good show but is lacking the evidence to make such a concrete statement. Now good investigators should be able to pin down the recording locations from enough people to either confirm or rule out the two shooter theory, wonder why they haven't yet?

[Alamo]

7 minutes ago, DNP said:

I learned that dude is pretty full of himself. 

Not saying I don't trust his method, but I think he's got a handful of factors he's convieniently not considering. what are the report times for .308?  Do we know all of the calibers used yet?i see he lined up the end shots, however the peaks of each frequency will create a signature that should be able to be verified between each other. What is the margin of error in these calculations and how much does the range of the shooter fluctuate when accounting for the error?  

I thought the same thing... but a .308 certainly wouldn’t have a shorter lag time than the .223 so wouldn’t explain those reports with a shorter lag time.

Check out this video. At around 2.08 you can clearly hear a 2nd weapon opening up from a different location somewhere closer to the person recording... doesn’t sound at all like some kind of echo of the first series of shots. Also right at the end, there seems like another burst of shots separate from the other fire, but it’s hard to tell. What do you guys think?

BTW, props to whoever that lady is, people should have listened to her to stay hunkered down.

[DNP]

That's a pretty convincing video, though I'm still not convinced. And I completely agree - she seemed to know what was up. 

[Alamo]

This guy is much less tiresome... he goes over the raw data from a video made by a cab driver at the Mandalay Bay, it’s particularly useful because it’s one continuous recording.

He’s able to find the driver’s exact location using Google Maps and manages to pinpoint a group of shots originating at a distance from the hotel.

[sketch]

sound might change due to shooter position ( distance) from the face of the window.  I havent seen much video of muzzel flash and some vid said there was dope on the note on the cofee table? 

[DNP]

I was wondering if the direction of the muzzle could cause the difference in sound. Like as he's sweeping. The shots fired directly towards the person with the camera being louder than shots at the other end. What I haven't heard is two distinct strings of fire occurring at exactly the same time. Either they were extremely well coordinated, or there was only one shooter and the audio evidence is explainable another way. 

[shepp]

36 minutes ago, DNP said:

I was wondering if the direction of the muzzle could cause the difference in sound. Like as he's sweeping. The shots fired directly towards the person with the camera being louder than shots at the other end. What I haven't heard is two distinct strings of fire occurring at exactly the same time. Either they were extremely well coordinated, or there was only one shooter and the audio evidence is explainable another way. 

That's what I took from it too, muzzle direction, echos and sounds bounceing off buildings. Most people hear gun fire in a non urban environment. I think the whole thing is fishy but I'm not thinking grass nole shit here. 

[survivalshop]

  Well , I'm not too sure about the Huddle in place , unless you are behind cover that can withstand rifle fire . A moving target is harder to hit & staying in a concentrated field of fire , is IMO , kinda a death wish . I did just notice with that Video is , the flood lights lighting the field of fire for the shooter , who ever turned those lights on or how ever they came on , actually helped the shooters target acquisition .

   There is much we don't know yet about this , not enough info for a good analyst of sound signatures , these people studying these sound recordings , have their hands tied , because of lacking proper info. The FBI certainly has all this capability & resources , be it we trust them or not is the question . 

  Sound for what I know about it , really doesn't care what direction it comes from , it travels at the same speed & can be measured & since all videos with sound were pretty much in the same area , it should not be hard to triangulate where the shots came from . Echo's can & should be easily distinguished from the report & impact of the Bullet .

 I said I learned something from that first video & I did , not about a second shooter , but about sound & impact of a shot , very interesting .

 The shooter was supposedly shooting from two different positions , so the actual sound that would be heard will sound different , but its measurable signature will be aboutt the same in relation to the sound of the impacts .

  I wonder if some of the pauses of fire were because of Jams of changing mags or weapons .

  The second audio video , the fist echoes were probably the shooter shooting inside the building at the security Guard .

Edited October 14, 2017 by survivalshop

[DNP]

Sound travels at the same speed true, but the direction greatly changes what you hear.  I'll do a test video when we meet up in a couple weeks and see what we get. I'll place my phone out at 450 yards and shoot a few angles around it.  Hopefully...my phone will survive the experiment...we will not be using Vera. 

[mrmackc]

Cell phones and most video recording devices filter sounds to prevent extra loud sounds from damaging the device. You could use a decibel measuring device.

[DNP]

32 minutes ago, mrmackc said:

Cell phones and most video recording devices filter sounds to prevent extra loud sounds from damaging the device. You could use a decibel measuring device.

Cell phone cameras are the origin of the videos being analyzed by the experts. We start there. 

[survivalshop]

 And heres some news .

https://www.infowars.com/las-vegas-survivor-abruptly-dies-days-after-posting-eyewitness-account-of-second-shooter/

[98Z5V]

Sound travels at 330 meters/sec, 1kilometer every 3 seconds.  That's close enough to estimate range, decently accurate.

 

Second video above - not 2 weapons firing simultaneously.  Dude started shooting, JUST as a helicopter above was pulling pitch.  He stopped shooting and moved to a different weapon system, but the continuation of the sound was from the helicopter rotor blades, beating the air into submission.  Listen again, guys, you'll hear it now...

[shepp]

52 minutes ago, survivalshop said:

 And heres some news .

https://www.infowars.com/las-vegas-survivor-abruptly-dies-days-after-posting-eyewitness-account-of-second-shooter/

Read else where she had seziers which coulda came with the stress. But there are lots of healthy Russians dying like that too so who knows

[98Z5V]

23 hours ago, Alamo said:

This guy is much less tiresome... he goes over the raw data from a video made by a cab driver at the Mandalay Bay, it’s particularly useful because it’s one continuous recording.

He’s able to find the driver’s exact location using Google Maps and manages to pinpoint a group of shots originating at a distance from the hotel.

This guy, in his own admission in this video, even states that his data is only accurate for 5.56/ .223 Rem.  He stated it.  Then, he goes on to give his forensic acoustic evidence that proves there's a second shooter, based on 0.18 seconds of acoustic difference. 

He's basing everything off .223 SOUND velocities.  Nothing in his "proof" is based off bullet flight time over distance...  Nothing.  We already know this specific dead guy was up in the Mandalay Bay with multiple calibers, which have different bullet flight times over distance.

Myth debunked.  Not enough data on bullet flight times from different calibers, over distance.  I ain't buyin' it, at all.

Edited October 15, 2017 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

Slidefire on the rifle on the right, NO Slidefire on the rifle on the left (that's a Daniel Defense collapsible buttstock), and the rifle on the left has a MagPul LR20 loaded mag sitting beside it.

Forensic Acoustic Analysis Ninja - give me the info on .308 Winchester in your next video, and give me the same "proof" that you've displayed for .223 Rem SOUND analysis.  Oh, and since you're a self-proclaimed long range shooter, throw in some bullet flight time analysis while you're at it.

Fuk that guy, and his analysis.

Edited October 15, 2017 by 98Z5V

[survivalshop]

9 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Slidefire on the rifle on the right, NO Slidefire on the rifle on the left (that's a Daniel Defense collapsible buttstock), and the rifle on the left has a MagPul LR20 loaded mag sitting beside it.

Forensic Acoustic Analysis Ninja - give me the info on .308 Winchester in your next video, and give me the same "proof" that you've displayed for .223 Rem SOUND analysis.  Oh, and since you're a self-proclaimed long range shooter, throw in some bullet flight time analysis while you're at it.

Fuk that guy, and his analysis.

  

  I agree with some of what you describe , but I think he may have been showing the FBI & LE that this data can be collected & how ,maybe it was part of his purpose & if not had some valid points for discovery . 

  No Bump stock on that one & the 308AR by the entrance of the Room , can show they were not fired in the same way as the ones with the Bump fire stock , probably the bursts of semi auto fire in-between the rapid fire from the Bump stocks . I know I & others who have been on the wrong end of certain weapons , can tell the difference of calibers when fired in your direction , .30 cal sounds different then a .22 when its shot . I wish I had the time like those in the Videos to do research like that , but we have to rely on outside sources to give this info & no doubt , they are frustrated also .

 He may have noticed from practice with them ( & he had to Practice somewhere ) that the 308's were ( to him & many others ) hardly controllable in that configuration ( its why the M14 had such a short service life as a select fire Battle Rifle ). I know all this , including the Videos are all Theory , because we really have no facts & since they keep changing the time lines , it hard to believe that LE has no idea whats going on .

 Thing is, this POS had to practice this whole thing somewhere & with out proper training , supposedly , he knew some things that could only come with practice .

  As said , its all theory at this point , but a good discussion all the same .

Edited October 15, 2017 by survivalshop