Building a 308 from an idea I had...

[RedRiverII]

Let's have some fun.  I'm asking for your help.  Let's build this one together,  I'll consider all suggestions and select what seems to be the best way to go.  My condition is this, this will be my first complete build.  I am handy with tools and able to read well.  I will expect to build this rifle with single parts and expect it to take longer than usual due to ordering and hiding stuff from the Mrs.  Cash only,  she's a bookkeeper and numbers never lie.  I did say I was on a moratorium until July 4th and have mostly stuck to the program.  Well there was 80 to someone on here for some stuff,  150 to another fellow and hopefully that's the end.  Enough BS.  Shooting 100-600 yds at my club,  with an intense desire to do 1000 yds once.  Where do I start?  What else do you need to know?  Not looking for the least expensive.  I will buy some terrific glass with your suggestions.  I'm not afraid of spending money,  I just don't want to throw it away.  What do you consider the heart and soul of the rifle?  Receiver,  bolt,  barrel?Here's what I'm starting with.   As always here,  Thank you in advance for your consideration.

Edited June 9, 2019 by RedRiverII

[jtallen83]

Aero will have some good sales come the 4th, they make a great receiver set for a fair price. I consider the barrel, BCG, and trigger the heart, also strongly suggest using upper and lower from the same maker.

A little more info on your budget would help. Heavy or light on the weight? Throw out some more crumbs on your vision of this build.

[Belt Fed]

100 bucks..hmmmm lets see. Ok MBUS sights.

[shooterrex]

LaRue MBT-2. On sale for $80.00 right now. Great trigger.

[jtallen83]

Just now, shooterrex said:

LaRue MBT-2. On sale for $80.00 right now. Great trigger.

👍Hands down the best bang for the buck on AR triggers. 

[sketch]

mbt 2 trigger is worth it! 1k yds is bigger glass and $ . I work alot of weekends to pay for my habbit! start there. ot is key!

[RedRiverII]

Thank you.  Heavy build,  2k for rifle,  glass 2k.  LaRue ordered for 80.  July 4th celebration BBQ,  then sales at Aero will be viewed.

1.  LaRue MBT-2S.

It just so happens 7/4 ends my one month budget probation period.

Thank you Shooter,  JT,  BF,  and sketch.

[RedRiverII]

I want 20+ inch barrel, I'd like to get 195's +  moving properly for distance.

[edgecrusher]

Can I suggest 6.5 Creedmore or .260 Rem? I think for a serious 1k yds you need more than a .308 can give. Many parts will be the same.

[RedRiverII]

Hi,  edge,  not going to be a serious 1000 yd'er,  way too much walking involved.  At 66 and living in sunny Florida the heat will kill me.  I do like the 6.5,  terrific round but I'll stick with the 308.  Thank you very much for your suggestion.

[edgecrusher]

Ok, you stated in the op you were thinking of it. Barrel, bcg and trigger then for your big expenditures 

[jtallen83]

2 hours ago, RedRiverII said:

I want 20+ inch barrel

I have gotten some good results with a Ballistic Advantage 20 inch match barrel , .936 at the gas block. I doubt I can shoot well enough to utilize all the accuracy it has. The target shown below was zeroing the scope, she puts them in tight if I do my part.

Not sure about 195's in a 308AR platform the heaviest I am aware of are the Berger 185's but I learn something new all the time.

 

[Belt Fed]

39 minutes ago, RedRiverII said:

Hi,  edge,  not going to be a serious 1000 yd'er,  way too much walking involved.  At 66 and living in sunny Florida the heat will kill me.  I do like the 6.5,  terrific round but I'll stick with the 308.  Thank you very much for your suggestion.

Are you going to hunt with this rifle?  If you already have a 308 I would look close at the creedmore. It's a nice round for longer kills. only drawback is ammo price. I haven't seen any in bulk form other than 200 rounds. But it's not much higher than 308. It don't have to be a long range gun but if you needed it, you would have it.

 

I'm 65 and I never thought of hunting long ranges until they clearcut my woods three years ago. I was happy to have the 6.5. But you are right you have more humidity than us here in Arkansas.

[Sisco]

1 hour ago, edgecrusher said:

Can I suggest 6.5 Creedmore or .260 Rem? I think for a serious 1k yds you need more than a .308 can give. Many parts will be the same.

If you really want to reach out to 1000 yards eventually, Edge’s recommendation makes sense. But for Port Malabar’s 600 yard range, my friend who belongs uses a 308. In his case it’s a Sako sniper rifle.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Sisco

[RedRiverII]

46 minutes ago, edgecrusher said:

Ok, you stated in the op you were thinking of it. Barrel, bcg and trigger then for your big expenditures 

Yes I did Sir,  then got thinking about the walking,  plus my club only goes to 600.  Just have an urge to qualify at a thousand,  my own qualifications, i.e.  I can do it.  I'm not an expert or even a seriously knowledgeable person on gunmanship.  When I had my full capabilities I could shoot really well with irons but... anyway edge, I look forward to more suggestions from you.  I hold most folks here in high regard.  Just consider this thread to be an evolving type thread on a build.  Perhaps 195's are too long for a magazine feed,  but good for single hand fed rounds for effect.  I'm counting on the knowledge of 308AR.com.

I won't be hunting,  just paper.  Let me say this I have beaucoup brass for 6.8 spc and some other components,  I was going to build one for hog hunting and removal.  I understand Tubbs et. al.  and their dominance using a better round.  I'm familiar with Glen Zediker and his monumental mass of info.  I'm going with the 308 merely as fulfillment of a compulsion. An as an aside you guys are sorely tempting me toward changing my mind. LOL  I hold the 30 06 in high regard because of WWII,  The 308 is as modern as I care to go.  Thank you all.

[Belt Fed]

7 minutes ago, RedRiverII said:

  The 308 is as modern as I care to go.  Thank you all.

The 308 is an awesome round, you can't go wrong with it.👍

[RedRiverII]

Screwed up the grain #'s.  Got a little carried away with myself.  I did order some 190's recently but they were subsonic for a different application. So far I bought a Laue MBT-2S on sale for 80.  Looking at and for barrels.

[RedRiverII]

I have been looking more and more toward the 6.5 CM.  Edgecrusher,  you got me thinking and reading.  It really starts to distance itself from the 308 at 4-5 hundred yds in terms of performance.   I already own 1 308 and perhaps the 6.5 CM is the way to go.  Thanks.

[98Z5V]

On 6/8/2019 at 6:14 PM, jtallen83 said:

I consider the barrel, BCG, and trigger the heart,

This, but I also consider the recoil system just as important as the gas system.  They both control each other.  As we well know, from a three-letter gun company, you can serious screw a gun up by getting both those out of whack.  Add "recoil system" to your list of performance parts, with the barrel, trigger, and BCG.  No matter what you do, for the BCG, just get a ToolCraft BCG.  Search online for the best price, because there are some serious deals out there on them, specifically.

On 6/9/2019 at 4:54 AM, edgecrusher said:

Can I suggest 6.5 Creedmore or .260 Rem? I think for a serious 1k yds you need more than a .308 can give. Many parts will be the same.

I'm with him, and it goes one of two ways, but comes down to one question...   Do you reload?  If the answer is no, then Creedmoor.  If the answer is yes, then .260 Rem. 

Tons of different, great loads available off-the-shelf for Creedmoor.  Not alot available off-the-shelf for .260 Rem, as far as accuracy loads go. 

I reload, and went .260 Rem over 6.5C.  The .260 Rem parent case is .308 Winchester, and I've got alot of .308 match brass that is easily converted to .260 Rem.  The .260 has a slight edge in case capacity, and velocity, over the 6.5C.  My typical go-to shooting distances include 850 yards.  The .308 bolt gun has 9.0 mils of drop at 850 on my 178gr accuracy loads.  The .260 Rem has 6.5 mils of drop at the 850 with my 147gr accuracy loads (my only load for that gun).  These 6.5mm projectiles far outpace the .308" projectiles, and my .260 load is supersonic to 1500 yards.  My .308 Win 195gr load might change that rifle some, but it's not gonna beat that .260 load, man. 

My $0.02...  

 

 

 

[Casper]

6.5 Creedmoor can be formed from .308 brass too and the shorter case + longer neck fit better in magazines.

I have had very good results with 140 grain Hornady Amax at 1,000 yards but the newer ELD stuff is probably better.

Comparing box to box, you can't find any ammo in .308 that will hang with 6.5 Creedmoor and the prices are pretty comparable.

If you reload, the price is pretty much the same unless you like to shoot cheap FMJs or pulls.

I don't think it makes sense to build a large frame AR for anything except accuracy and if you want to shoot cheap surplus 7.62x51, you won't be terribly accurate as you eat up the accuracy life of your barrel.  It doesn't make sense.

In my opinion, stick with standard pressure bolts unless you want to hand load with small rifle primer brass exclusively.  A high pressure bolt might pierce primers on LRP box ammo.  You don't need to hot rod 6.5 Creedmoor to get to 1,000 so don't complicate your life.

The standard AR15 accuracy trick works, free float handguards are key.  I like the Aero M5E1 enhanced upper/handguard combo, usually in Quantum M-lok because it's cheap.  Then get an Aero M5E1 lower and partial LPK to match.

I have a recipe I like to build a ~budget M5E1 with all the little upgrades I want.  With some smart shopping and waiting for sales, you can get a whole lot of rifle for under $1,500.

[98Z5V]

38 minutes ago, Casper said:

6.5 Creedmoor can be formed from .308 brass too and the shorter case + longer neck fit better in magazines.

 

I'm not sure if you're trying to say that 6.5C brass fits better in magazines than .260 Rem brass, but that's definitely not the case.  There are zero issues fitting .260 Rem ammo into .308 Win mags, to full mag capacity, at all - it's the same round that the mag was designed for, just necked down to 6.5mm. 

[RedRiverII]

More schooling is exactly what I need,  thanks.  I'm am going to reload,  more fun,  more stretching of the brain grooves,  more time invested,  deeper understanding,  all up my alley.  I'll be looking for 4th of July sales.  Where can I learn to reform brass?  Are the barrels all different?  Are the receivers all different.  I noted "  6.5,  and 260 fit in 308 magazines???  I'm moving toward the books and internet shortly.  I'm not being lazy,  I just received great info and it lit a fire in my brain,  thank you both.  All started with edgecrusher's statement Thank you Sir.

[RedRiverII]

   I see the magazine answer was given.

 

"The parent .308 brass is suitable for necking down to .260 however the extra thickness of the .308 case neck needs to be removed to avoid potentially dangerous pressure conditions."    "... terminal ballistics.com article."
 
Below from " terminal ballistics.com."

"In 1996, Arthur B Alphin, director of A-Square Cartridges (USA) applied to have the 6.5-08 wildcat standardized by SAAMI as the 6.5-08 A-Square. A-Square was a member of SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) but for unknown reasons, the processing of Alphin’s application was very slow. In 1997, Remington (also a SAAMI member) made a similar application to standardize the 6.5-08 as the .260 Remington. Shortly thereafter, the Remington design was accepted and the cartridge dimensions standardized. Although A-Square lost naming rights to the wildcat, the odd situation was not turned into a major drama. Like other SAAMI members, A-Square continued to focus on the primary goal of safe design of firearms and cartridges.?  

Pretty cool dude to let it go and settle for shooter's safety.

 

 

 

 

 

[98Z5V]

6 hours ago, RedRiverII said:

   I see the magazine answer was given.

 

"The parent .308 brass is suitable for necking down to .260 however the extra thickness of the .308 case neck needs to be removed to avoid potentially dangerous pressure conditions."    "... terminal ballistics.com article."

 

All you do is turn the case necks down. I have a tool from KM Precision Shooting Products that handles that easily.  I searched out a couple videos on converting .308 brass to 6.5 Creedmoor, and it looks like a pain in the ass.  Making .260 Rem from .308 is easy.

[RedRiverII]

Cool,  thanks.  I see using a full length sizing die ought to do it.  It's been suggested to use a 7mm-08,  then the 260 to make it easier.  I viewed a vid where the fellow jumps straight to a 260 and resizes.  That 260 is a terrific round.  Going too KM.  Also noted the annealing process,  handy little process as far as I'm concerned.  I see you noted to merely case neck the shell,  I've seen those dies as well.  Thanks as always.