Nyx Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 Colion Noir has a Youtube video titled "ATF Director David Chipman Ripped Apart by Pro Second Amendment Senators". Does anybody know if the ATF issues AR-15s or do they issue M-16s or M-4s or some other fully automatic guns? At time stamp14:26 did David Chipman commit perjury? He says he was issued an AR-15 but was he really issued an M-16 or an M-4 or some other type of fully automatic rifle? Because if, after being an ATF agent and the head of multiple gun banning organizations and now applying as head of the ATF that he could make such a mistake is A) a bald-faced LIE or B) such a level of incompetence as to disqualify him from 'any' law enforcement position involving guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belt Fed Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 A liberal telling a lie. Imagine that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianK Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 Maybe trying to somehow equate that it was too LE for the commoners (that would be us serfs) to own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 The last time I did OPS with the ATF was in the late 1980's. We were in Texas down on the Coast by Corpus Cristi or Port Aransas, can't remember exactly which at the moment. I remember the agents opening up the trunk of their Caprice and it was full of weapons, body armor, etc. I saw MP5's and a couple of black rifles in there. I didn't ask any stupid questions about them being full-auto or not but would have been very surprised if everything they had in there was not select fire. Keep in mind that the shooting with Platt and Matix in 1986 was a game-changer for Federal LE Officers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout They very quickly decided that ONE very well trained individual with a Ruger Mini-14 and a couple of taped together 30 round magazines is more than nearly a dozen agents could handle armed with small caliber handguns and a shotgun. So moral of the story is NEVER take a pistol to a rifle fight!......FWIW...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sheep Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 It would be a reasonable assumption that the ATF would have select fire long guns. The potential of facing criminal elements with full auto weaponry is probably pretty high. In that context I will say yes, he committed perjury. Personally, I believe that he is a devious man that’s intentionally trying to blur the distinction between semi-auto and full auto firearms without being blatantly obvious. Like every lifelong bureaucrat he tap danced around some very direct questions and his reluctance to define what constitutes an assault rifle was very telling. He was trying to downplay his extreme political bias and failed miserably. I would have liked to hear questions about his role while employed by various gun control organizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 55 minutes ago, Black_Sheep said: I would have liked to hear questions about his role while employed by various gun control organizations. You would think that would be important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirstydg323 Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Cliff R said: They very quickly decided that ONE very well trained individual with a Ruger Mini-14 and a couple of taped together 30 round magazines is more than nearly a dozen agents could handle armed with small caliber handguns and a shotgun. So moral of the story is NEVER take a pistol to a rifle fight!......FWIW...... The individual with the Mini-14 wasn't well trained, he was lucky. As for the federal agents, they were highly trained as well as LAZY, undisciplined and very unlucky. They would have won that fight easily if it wasn't for their false sense of security. Bullet proof vest on, ✔ Gun in hand/holster ✔ Eyes on the fight instead of the floor looking for your guns ✔ Dick(s) in your pants instead of gang banging a waitress ✔ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) Incorrect about Platt. Going from memory Platt was Military trained and may have spent time in Vietnam. In recent weeks prior to the shooting he had purchased several thousand rounds of ammunition and was doing a LOT of practice in the Everglades. He was highly motivated, disciplined and accurate. He hit almost every FBI agent that showed up, even hitting several of their weapons and disabling at least one of them as they hid behind their cars and were trying to return fire. While most of them were either wounded, reloading, taking cover, or out of ammo or combinations of all four Platt systematically walked around executing them. He was successful twice and missed a third agent at point blank range. That agent was able to engage him with a shotgun and his revolver even though severely wounded and having to work the shotgun's action with one hand. His efforts ended the encounter. The names of those agents escape me but I'm sure someone can Google up the details. Platt was stuck early in the encounter with what the ME described as a "non survivable wound". He did most of if not all of the carnage AFTER being shot by the agents. Specific details of the event are well logged in my memory banks and some of it may not be public knowledge. I spent some time on staff at one of the Federal LE Training Centers and that shooting was actually part of our curriculum which included a tape made by the FBI (8 track) which I still have a copy of around here someplace. Sorry to drift off topic, hope some of this helps someone along the way......Cliff Edited June 6, 2021 by Cliff R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirstydg323 Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 Pratt was spending time out in the glades with his buddy, plinking, getting high and stealing cars and robbing people. The whole situation was a mess before it even happened. The difference, Pratt was cool/high and the Fed's were on overdrive. Be honest, if you were getting shot at, lost your gun where would your mind be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 11 hours ago, Thirstydg323 said: Pratt was spending time out in the glades with his buddy, plinking, getting high and stealing cars and robbing people. The whole situation was a mess before it even happened. The difference, Pratt was cool/high and the Fed's were on overdrive. Be honest, if you were getting shot at, lost your gun where would your mind be? In accordance with forum rules, you'll need to justify this with factual statements, links to information that state this. That's the way it is. Your opinion doesn't make it fact. Please post your links, and don't dally around in getting it done. Thanks, in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirstydg323 Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 (edited) Does that mean your tree climbing stories factual,such a fat little man with a big ego Edited June 5, 2021 by Thirstydg323 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 49 minutes ago, Thirstydg323 said: Does that mean your tree climbing stories factual,such a fat little man with a big ego Get to your facts already, instead of trying to deflect with personal insults. If the route of personal insults is where you wanna go, then I'll play with you. Post your facts. Or shut your mouth about it. It's pretty fucking simple. Let's get this on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 48 minutes ago, Thirstydg323 said: Does that mean your tree climbing stories factual,such a fat little man with a big ego This is General Discussion, not the Politics section. Don't go making personal attacks, and don't go confusing a difference of opinion with an attack on your character. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 (edited) Turns out that I was correct about the Military training. Both were discharged but had been on active duty, Marine Corps (Matix) and Army (Platt). They both went to jump school. Looks like they met serving as Military Police at some point. Not much of a "google" type (I much prefer direct experiences I've had vs copy/paste those of others) but I did find this interesting read on Platt and Matix: https://vault.fbi.gov/FBI Miami Shooting 4-11-86 /Miami Shooting 4-11-86 Part 8 of 11 Sorry to drift this off topic, but there are good lessons to learn from this sort of thing. The FBI sure stepped up their game after getting their arses handed to them in the Miami shootout. They were really only up against one man, Matix never fired a single round that I know of. From memory once again one of the agents killed was a "rookie" (Dove). I believe it was his weapon that was stuck with a 223 round from Platt's Mini-14 that rendered it inoperable. The other deceased agent was a small arms instructor and excellent marksman. Sadly during the crash he lost his glasses and was basically blind without them. To sort of drag this story back on topic it was about a year after that shooting that I worked with the agents down in Texas and they were armed to the teeth!........ Edited June 5, 2021 by Cliff R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 Sad situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyx Posted June 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 Thanks for the numerous replies. As a follow-up question would there still be records as the what weapons agent David Chipman used while employed at the ATF? I do doubt he was issued an AR-15 after the FBI at Miami. Please feel free to kick this question around to people who could shed light on his claim to which service rifle he used and if there could be records of it. Thanks, NYX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 Unlikely they would keep any records like that. About as close as you'll get is finding out what weapon or weapons were issued to field agents at that time....IMHO. Most departments/agencies, at least the ones I've worked for don't pay a lot of attention to what you carry off duty or as a secondary weapon. Some even allow you to replace the issue weapon with something of your own choosing. Even with that said the days of going on the cheap are pretty much over and most agencies are going to the top of the pile for side-arms and long guns that will be issued to their officers. So aside from buying yourself a nice high capacity secondary or off-duty weapon, like a Hellcat with a couple of 15 round mags there is seldom a need to "upgrade" from your issued weapons........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 On 6/4/2021 at 9:52 AM, Thirstydg323 said: Pratt was spending time out in the glades with his buddy, plinking, getting high and stealing cars and robbing people. The whole situation was a mess before it even happened. The difference, Pratt was cool/high and the Fed's were on overdrive. Be honest, if you were getting shot at, lost your gun where would your mind be? You really don't know much about this, you don't even have the name right, it's PLATT, not Pratt! Cliff seems to be pretty well versed on the incident and IMO knows what he's talking about. @Cliff R the agents killed were Ben Grogan and Jerry Dove. My Captain was very good friends with Ben Grogan, he was stationed in Albuquerque at one point in his career and my Captain worked some stuff with him. I've studied the shootout quite a bit and have been to the site. It was a game changer for all of law enforcement in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 Thanks. For sure a game changer and very costly way to learn lessons with that sort of thing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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