Magpul's, The art of the precision rifle

[BLKSHEEP]

The instructor's name is Todd Hodnett and he's impressing the hell out of me!  :hail: but there's a section called "cold bore vs clean bore" where he says he doesn't remove copper from his bore, only carbon. He says he has 8000+ rounds through one of his rifles without removing the copper. What's y'alls opinion on this?

[edgecrusher]

Got my copy recently,have not had time to open it yet

[skeeter]

That does go against what I have always been told, but when you consider he shoots thousands of rounds a year, you kinda have to listen to what he says.

I must admit I have noticed my 300rum does shoot much tighter groups after a few rounds, following a good cleaning with CR-10.

[unforgiven]

Only carbon not copper? the barrel is either clean or it isn't if your gonna go to trouble of cleaning why not clean it compleatly? Kinda like taking a bath and not cleaning your ass. <dontknow>

[edgecrusher]

Only carbon not copper? the barrel is either clean or it isn't if your gonna go to trouble of cleaning why not clean it compleatly? Kinda like taking a bath and not cleaning your ass. <dontknow>

<lmao> <laughs>  :o

[Matt.Cross]

Actually there's pretty good reason in it. Here's the short version (and I do mean short, the technical description would take days):

Barrels are made of hard stuff (like steel), and bullets are made of not so hard stuff (like copper). Barrel steel is porous, and copper usually fills the pores and gives the surface of the bore more uniformity across it's contact surface. When you remove the copper from those pores, you lose that uniformity until you have fired enough shots to refill the pores. The essence is that copper is minutely doing you a favor, the carbon is not.

[Livnoutdoors6.8]

So whats the best way to get the carbon out while keeping the copper in?

[Robocop1051]

Synthetic brushes, for tough jobs, or just wet/dry patches.

No need to scrub, just get the debris out.

[392heminut]

Will Schuemann, who makes some of the most accurate 1911 barrels on the market, recommends not cleaning the bores in his barrels, only the chambers. Most of his barrels are used by USPSA shooters, who shoot thousands of rounds a year! (I used to shoot 8 to 10 thousand rounds every year when I was at the top of my game.)

[edgecrusher]

so bore snakes are out? damn, love those things

[Livnoutdoors6.8]

so bore snakes are out? damn, love those things

Not completely, I was able to work the brush out of one of my bore snakes. Given, it was a .22 cal, but you might be able to get a .30 out

[unforgiven]

Maybe I'm just dense but I was under the impression that the rifleing that spins the bullet works best when the lands and grooves are clean.Why do cleaning products have cooper and carbon removers in them? Isn't hodkins powders new formula designed to minimize if not eliminate cooper fouling? Interesting about 1911's brother Hemi,never would have thought. <dontknow>

[washguy]

Hi Guys  Lately ive been using those foaming copper removing bore cleaners.The foam reduces to liquid and turns blue as it comes out the muzzle.Seems the more copper the more the color blue.The two poly gonal 308 barrels from Rainier hardly have copper fouling ....interesting I think  <munch>  Wash

[blue109]

seems my lazyness has put me ahead of the game in this respect :)

[Magwa]

Having been a elk sniper for 30 years I agree with leaving the copper in BUT there is a method to the madness, when you break a barrel in the copper will fill the pits and grooves and that is why it is important to fire 1 round and clean up to 50 rnds, then 3 and clean to 100 after that your barrels pits and grooves are filled and your barrel will clean very easy.

 

  Now Once you have a barrel that will clean easy it will also be very consistent and very accurate if it was a good barrel to begin with .. BUT you must foul the barrel to get it to shoot consistent so when i clean any of my rifles I then take em outside and fire two rounds then put them in the case... that way they are ready to go .... I load for 7mm STW and shoot these rounds in a ruger #1 with a 24 inch barrel I have hit 2 out of 3 shots on pepsi cans with a 1/2 stick of dynamite in them at 650 yards and this is my elk sniper have hit farther but i feel this is my limit for a 9 lb gun.... so remember to clean and then foul the barrel before hunting or whatever shooting you will do...

[survivalshop]

Use barrel cleaners that are not copper removers. Most will say if they are for copper removal . Standard cleaning with a non-copper removal cleaner will just clean the barrel of contaminants .

 

You should use a copper fouling removal cleaner if the barrel needs it . If you are a match shooter , you will want to remove copper fouling & re-season the barrel on a set schedule.

 

I had a Browning BAR in 30'06 last year , that took a month to get the copper fouling out , it came out in slivers ( some lead ) on the patch's & stayed green for so long , I thought it would never clear up .

 

Rifle prints nice groups now , they thought it was the scope , ammo & or scope mount . As said, a good cleaning straightened it out . Of course this is the extreme case , but you should deep clean with a high round  count or having problems with a good barrel, known to shoot well.

 

 

[BLKSHEEP]

Actually there's pretty good reason in it. Here's the short version (and I do mean short, the technical description would take days):

Barrels are made of hard stuff (like steel), and bullets are made of not so hard stuff (like copper). Barrel steel is porous, and copper usually fills the pores and gives the surface of the bore more uniformity across it's contact surface. When you remove the copper from those pores, you lose that uniformity until you have fired enough shots to refill the pores. The essence is that copper is minutely doing you a favor, the carbon is not.

 

 

Having been a elk sniper for 30 years I agree with leaving the copper in BUT there is a method to the madness, when you break a barrel in the copper will fill the pits and grooves and that is why it is important to fire 1 round and clean up to 50 rnds, then 3 and clean to 100 after that your barrels pits and grooves are filled and your barrel will clean very easy.

 

  Now Once you have a barrel that will clean easy it will also be very consistent and very accurate if it was a good barrel to begin with .. BUT you must foul the barrel to get it to shoot consistent so when i clean any of my rifles I then take em outside and fire two rounds then put them in the case... that way they are ready to go .... I load for 7mm STW and shoot these rounds in a ruger #1 with a 24 inch barrel I have hit 2 out of 3 shots on pepsi cans with a 1/2 stick of dynamite in them at 650 yards and this is my elk sniper have hit farther but i feel this is my limit for a 9 lb gun.... so remember to clean and then foul the barrel before hunting or whatever shooting you will do...

What you guys are saying/doing is what I took away from the video. As long as your groups are good there's no need to remove the copper, only the carbon.  If you do remove all the copper you'll need to fire a few fouling shots to get it back right . I'm due to watch that video again, it's freaking awesome <thumbsup>