.308 AR-based battle rifle?

[98Z5V]

 

Yeah, but I'd hate to spend double the money for a KAC when other companies have great customer service as well. :P

 

You can use the little tongue-wagging smilie all you want.  Just ask yourself one question...

 

"What companies have provided US Special Operations Command a 7.62 Battle Rifle?"

 

One company has.  And, outside of a trigger change, it's exactly as the manufacturer provided it.  Come up with that answer, if you really want a modern 7.62 Battle Rifle...

[98Z5V]

 

***EDITED TO ADD***

After a little thought, my main criteria is reliability through adverse conditions with crap ammo (i.e. Wolf/Brown Bear/other steel case). Again, I would like to avoid piston if possible. Shame on me for wanting a unicorn rifle, right? :P

 

Then, you don't want a Battle Rifle.  You want a SHTF Gun.  You can build a SHTF Gun.  You need to buy a Battle Rifle.

[98Z5V]

That explains a lot ;)

 

 

 

^^^  He nailed it.  NAILED it. 

[Sisco]

Here's the correct thought process.

1. Realize you need a gun. Try to rationalize it (defense, hobby, skill, etc)

2. Look in wallet... check online statements etc. Realize that I have wife and kids to feed. Wife also needs to cut spending on crap - yes crap like getting her hair done (What's wrong with Great Clips/Supercuts? Why don't you go there instead of that $150 place? No? I go there all the time for my haircuts and my hair looks fine.)

3. Decide to ignore wife.

4. Go ogle at guns instead. That Larue/LMT/KAC/blah blah looks hot.... analyze options with engineering knowledge - decide you can make one better for less.

5. End up buying cheapie and spend more money on optics, ammo, and accessories. Engineering common sense says they're all the same and you can make them better when you glean more knowledge from first hand experience. Besides, it's not like throwing money away since you can always resell it (unlike expensive haircuts)

6. Go shoot, and discover you can't get enough destruction.

7. Do the math - it's cheaper to reload. Yes, all that engineering school math comes in handy.

8. Buy reloading gear, start reloading. The engineer in you enjoys having more gadgets around the house.

9. Shoot some more. Tons more... and keep reloading your own ammo. As an engineer, there's nothing like experimenting with loads etc. Besides, the wife isn't there at the range so you get some peace and quiet.

10. Wife says "why are you spending so much money on gun stuff?" Grunt and tell her that you're reverse engineering gun stuff so you can start making guns and that she should STFU and go make money for a change. Ask her to make a sandwich right after that.

11. Goto #1.

P.S. I stopped drinking after the military (20+ years ago). I have bad allergies with alcohol....but that's a completely different story...

Man find a nice untended mountain top in Arizona, and go carve these rules in stone. And then get a make over to look like Charlton Heston as Moses. I guarantee you would make millions on the tourist draw, more if you also build a gun range next to it. Got a kick out of reading these. Edited April 8, 2014 by Sisco

[ardrummer292]

Standard engineering process is generally subdivided into a few phases. [...]

That said, I'd look into materials and workmanship if I were buying a pre-made rifle. Material requirements might be 7075 receiver extension, AR-10 pattern receiver extension, 16" barrel length, ect., and workmanship requirements might be something like track record of properly torquing and staking various pieces, verifying headspace, known for keeping tight tolerances ect.

 

I know the engineering process, I was just being ornery. :D

 

What's the deal with the receiver extension specs you mentioned? I hadn't thought about that stuff before.

 

 

 

Here's the correct thought process.

[...]

 

If I had enough experience under my belt, I would probably try and build one myself. One would think that I have enough experience as-is, since I was an assistant armorer as well as a shooter for my unit, but I'm really not confident enough in my abilities to trust my life on a rifle I built. Not yet, anyway.

 

 

 

Or just buy a gun and go to the range. Perhaps read up on marksmanship and ballistics... :auto:

 

Thankfully, I have some friends who are Marines who will get me back up to speed. I can go fast, clear malfunctions, transition, and move in a team environment just fine. My fundamentals are where I really need work. Only hits count, right?

 

 

 

Then, you don't want a Battle Rifle.  You want a SHTF Gun.  You can build a SHTF Gun.  You need to buy a Battle Rifle.

 

I was not aware that SHTF gun was a category. Well, knowing that, do you have any recommendations?

 

 

 

^^^  He nailed it.  NAILED it. 

 

Man, I hope I'm not wearing out my welcome here already. If so, thanks for the help anyway. :D

[Sisco]

The nuts and bolts of it is any reputable manufacturer makes a good weapon to meet your needs. Just get one flexible enough to adapt as your needs change. You have heard our opinions, take what you need of them but follow your gut instinct in making your final selection, and you will do fine.

[Magwa]

whenever you get this mythical weapon let me know we will get together and shoot the $hit out of them drag em thru the mud slide em down rock slides and lean them up against trees at night still wet and you know what my DPMS will still go bang every time cause i already been there and done that! you seem to have a thing against a rifle you do not even have... go buy a 3500 rifle and then scratch the crap out of it doing what i do bet ya don't lo,l :)

 

PS. crap ammo shoots like crap dirty not accurate etc etc  so why buy or build a 4,000 gun to shoot crap ammo in that is like buying a Ferrari and running regular gas in it....no matter what gun you get it is only as good as the ammo you feed it .you want accuracy long range? you got alot of work to do ...

Edited April 8, 2014 by Magwa

[planeflyer21]

whenever you get this mythical weapon let me know we will get together and shoot the $hit out of them drag em thru the mud slide em down rock slides and lean them up against trees at night still wet

 

That's actually what sold me on XD-series pistols.  Dude tumbled his loaded .45 a couple of hundred yards down a 65°-70° incline. Didn't go off, was scratched to hell, picked it up…bang-bang-bang.  Reholster, reclimb.

[Boerboel guy]

Piston is the devil??? Lol. Not all piston systems are created equally.

I wouldn't trade my pws piston systems for anything. Very clean, lightweight, run when filthy, eats steel cased all day long. The mk216 is every last thing you are asking for except it doesn't poop where it eats.

When I was in your position I tried almost every 308 based ar on the market. I always came back to the pws.

[Matt.Cross]

The do-it-all rifle has been conceptualized time and again here. You need to know that you aren't wearing out your welcome as much as you're trying to reinvent the wheel. The answer that most of your predecessors arrived at, is to build two uppers for the same lower. One that meets their precision requirements, and one that meets their CQB/SHTF/EOTWAWKI/Zombie Invasion requirements. The problems that will continue to remain a problem, is exactly what wise Mr. Magwa pointed out. Crap ammo is crap, you can't expect anything except the perpetual degradation of performance once you start using it. If price point is your mitigating factor, reloading is still the best choice. There is all kinds of cheap crap to buy for reloading that still won't be as detrimental as Mil-Surp.

[unforgiven]

You want to shoot steel here's some info: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#reliable

[FaRKle!]

P.S. I stopped drinking after the military (20+ years ago). I have bad allergies with alcohol....but that's a completely different story...

You sound like my buddy. Every time he has alcohol he breaks out in handcuffs.

You want to shoot steel here's some info: http://www.luckygunn...-ammo/#reliable

That was an entertaining read, but doesn't really mean anything about steel cased ammo, but rather bi-metal bullets. It also only applies to rapid fire use cases. All that heat in the barrel exacerbates the detrimental effect of the cheap bi-metal bullets over normal copper jacketed rounds.

Edited April 8, 2014 by FaRKle!

[ardrummer292]

whenever you get this mythical weapon let me know we will get together and shoot the $hit out of them drag em thru the mud slide em down rock slides and lean them up against trees at night still wet and you know what my DPMS will still go bang every time cause i already been there and done that! you seem to have a thing against a rifle you do not even have... go buy a 3500 rifle and then scratch the crap out of it doing what i do bet ya don't lo,l :)

 

No offense intended on my part, Magwa. I'm sure your DPMS runs like a champ. :)

 

 

 

It looks like the Armalite offering is top contender currently. Does anyone know where I could find a medium profile 16'' chrome lined barrel? A mid-length gas system would be a plus, as would a .750 diameter at the gas block. Basically, just like the Mega Arms 16'' barrel, but chrome lined and able to fit an AR-10. :)

Edited April 8, 2014 by ardrummer292

[shibiwan]

This is possible with a cheapie and good ammo (hand reloads) at 200 yards:

 

[washguy]

ARD Forget these problematic,heavy azzed,expensive ar 308's.......what you need is an AK....lightweight,runs forever,shoots any ammo you can put in it.....:) Wash

[ardrummer292]

Already got one, custom built by a local AK guru. It came with a lifetime warranty. Can't wait to try and break it. ;)

[washguy]

Already got one, custom built by a local AK guru. It came with a lifetime warranty. Can't wait to try and break it. ;)

Well,there ya go.....problem solved....spend your money on ballistic armour.....don't forget the helmet

:) Wash

[survivalshop]

Life time warranty on an AK , they don't need one unless some one has altered the basic design. <dontknow>

 

You really can't go wrong with any 308AR , they all work just fine. The only thing that I would stay away from is something with a new design. 

I think your problem is like a kid in a candy store , too many choices . You & only you can choose a rifle for your needs , because you know what you want more then we do .

 

Brand really means nothing except a name , they pretty much all stand behind there products . Sure mass produced firearms do & will have a problem here or there ,but if you look at the problems that are solved on this forum , there not such a big deal , mostly minor things & if a manufacturer makes more firearms than another , it just ups a chance of having an issue to be resolved .

 

If your not building a rifle , your choices are what ever the manufacturer has in there line up . If you want a custom build , prepare to wait for it .

 

If I was to buy a factory AR rifle ( I never have ) it would be an Armilite AR 10, great all around rifle & has good resale value if it doesn't cover your needs . ( an unlikely event ) Not that I have anything against any other manufacturer , except $$ .

 I have two DPMS 308 AR builds , being, both have DPMS lower receivers as a base . They work just fine . 

Edited April 8, 2014 by survivalshop

[ardrummer292]

Well,there ya go.....problem solved....spend your money on ballistic armour.....don't forget the helmet

:) Wash

 

Done, and done. I don't plan on attending a class without having a little insurance against poor weapons handling. :)

 

 

 

Now, does anyone have an answer for this little gem?

Does anyone know where I could find a medium profile 16'' chrome lined barrel? A mid-length gas system would be a plus, as would a .750 diameter at the gas block. Basically, just like the Mega Arms 16'' barrel, but chrome lined and able to fit an AR-10. :)

[Matt.Cross]

Now, does anyone have an answer for this little gem?

 

Yep. Armalite themselves offers chrome-lined 1:10 twist barrels for their AR-10 platform.

[washguy]

Yep. Armalite themselves offers chrome-lined 1:10 twist barrels for their AR-10 platform.

I think its aluminium foil lined though :) Wash

[Magwa]

No offense intended on my part, Magwa. I'm sure your DPMS runs like a champ. :)

 

 

 

none taken just don't judge a book by the cover this rifle cost me 900.00 bucks 200 for the hand gaurd 200 for the glass and 110 for the trigger a RRA nat.match I broke it in like all my new guns 1 shot and clean to 100 and it shoots like this at 100 yards with good ammo and it has never had a FTF or FTE or any other issue and it has over 700 rounds thru it  and probably as many miles...

 

[ardrummer292]

Yep. Armalite themselves offers chrome-lined 1:10 twist barrels for their AR-10 platform.

 

Yeah, but it's a light profile. I'm looking for a medium profile. :P

 

 

 

I think its aluminium foil lined though :) Wash

 

Oh, now you're just messing with me. :D

[Rsquared]

Nah. He ain't messing with you. He's just trying to get my dander up.

 

Not gonna happen.

[ardrummer292]

Rsquared, do you know of any medium contour 16in chrome lined barrels that'll fit an AR-10? All I've been able to find are a few places that *might* do a custom job (Lothar Walther, Miller Precision, SAOD).