suzukiray Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Ok, for you that don't know me, a little background about me. I build & drag race Suzuki motorcycles & quads & build 1400+cc street bikes. I come from the school of too much is just right. I only own 2 completely stock vehicles & they are the mower & weed whacker. SERIOUSLY! I am now into the 223/308/338/458 sickness and it is going downhill FAST!! Now for my question: I keep looking at these "stock" triggers & feel there HAS to be ways to modify them to reduce the pull rate on them & make them smoother. I am thinking reshaping & polishing the areas that slide against each other and different spring rates. Anyone have experience with this? And DON'T tell me to just go buy a 200 dollar trigger & be done with it. Homie don't play that if he doesn't have to!! LOL! Thanks for sharing anything you've got! Ray. Edited January 12, 2015 by suzukiray
MikedaddyH Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Yes Ray ! The JP red and yellow spring replacement alongwith a little polishing on a few critical surfaces.
392heminut Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Ray, milspec triggers are surface hardened only and it doesn't take much to get through that hardening. Once that happens the triggers can develop wear to the point of being unsafe fairly quick. That's why you don't hear much about anything more than some light stoning on the stock triggers.
MikedaddyH Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 There is also a bent leg on the spring which may help.
98Z5V Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Yep, light stoning/polishing is about it. One thing you have to watch on polishing - you can smooth and polish a surface, but you have to make absolutely sure you don't change any of the engagement angles. Many of the aftermarket triggers don't even use the same geometry as mil-spec triggers.
DNP Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 And DON'T tell me to just go buy a 200 dollar trigger & be done with it. Homie don't play that if he doesn't have to!! Ray. bullpoopy. You have to buy a $230 trigger. Go shoot one and tell me you dont need it.
suzukiray Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) DON'T tell me a stock trigger can't be made a LOT better Dirk!!! LOL!! I need specifics & even pictures to describe the stuff you guys are talking about, especially the bent leg spring? Ray Edited January 12, 2015 by suzukiray
edgecrusher Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 You need to be careful, if you do go too much and the rifle goes full auto, it can be no bueno.
98Z5V Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Use with caution: https://www.google.com/#q=ar15+trigger+job
suzukiray Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Posted January 12, 2015 So Tom, I can't change the geometry like I do on ports in an engine? Welding is easy. I have access to mills & lathes. Like changing stroke, rod length, pin height on the piston & rod geometry? Has no one here ever tried? Ray.
StainTrain Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Many of the aftermarket triggers don't even use the same geometry as mil-spec triggers. ^^^^Ray, this is the crux of the matter. You can sand and polish until the cows come home, but you won't get a great trigger, well not one that you would want to compare to a real good trigger. You can make the mil-spec feel a little better, but how much is your time worth. You need to be careful, if you do go too much and the rifle goes full auto, it can be no bueno. This is very important. I am not going to take this opportunity to beat up on the ATF, but will say if they are getting calls that you are at the range (or with buddies) and your rifle continues to double and triple, then you could have a legal problem. I have felt a lot of triggers worked on by a lot of different dudes, and I have yet to feel an one that compares to Geissele, I run them in my duty weapons and personal weapons, well all but one... that has a KAC two-stage....which isn't as good as Geissele (IMO).
suzukiray Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Posted January 12, 2015 COOL link Tom!! I just learned something to try for about 3 bucks!! Thanks! Ray.
suzukiray Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) So, I will have to buy a Geissele & see how it's made!! I can do that! Phuck you guys, STILL making me buy a damn trigger!!! Ray. Edited January 12, 2015 by suzukiray
survivalshop Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 ALG Defense , about $ 65-70 & you have a great single stage trigger , after some shooting , both mine break at around 5 # & it just so happens to be the wife's company side of Geissele's triggers . I used to polish my std mil spec triggers , but the best it can do is take some of the grittiness out of them . Altering the sear surfaces , even if done correctly its unsafe , to say the least . Not to mention that these triggers don't break the same consistently , even after polishing .
planeflyer21 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 DON'T tell me a stock trigger can't be made a LOT better Dirk!!! LOL!! I need specifics & even pictures to describe the stuff you guys are talking about, especially the bent leg spring? Ray You CAN make a stock trigger a LOT better! Pretty easy actually. But man oh man is it nice to drop in a match trigger, hammer, and disconnector...take up the first stage, pressure slightly building <snap> just like a glass hematocrit, with 1/32" overtravel before stopping. Slowly relax pressure to reset point 3/32" forward <click>...time for round two!
StainTrain Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 You CAN make a stock trigger a LOT better! Pretty easy actually. But man oh man is it nice to drop in a match trigger, hammer, and disconnector...take up the first stage, pressure slightly building <snap> just like a glass hematocrit, with 1/32" overtravel before stopping. Slowly relax pressure to reset point 3/32" forward <click>...time for round two! I had to splash cold water on my face. Poetry!
392heminut Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Ray, if you do the '15 minute trigger job' you find in the online sites that involves cutting one leg of the hammer spring off don't be surprised if you start getting misfires! I know the articles usually say 'totally reliable' and 'no misfires at all' but that's bullschitt! I've got one of those modified springs lying around here somewhere and there's a reason it's not in a gun anymore, I like my guns to go bang EVERY time I pull the trigger! It made for a great trigger pull but the reliability wasn't there. Now I do like Mike suggested above and just use the JP red & yellow springs, the JP 'Enhanced Reliability Spring Kit'.
planeflyer21 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Ray, if you do the '15 minute trigger job' you find in the online sites that involves cutting one leg of the hammer spring off don't be surprised if you start getting misfires! I know the articles usually say 'totally reliable' and 'no misfires at all' but that's bullschitt! I've got one of those modified springs lying around here somewhere and there's a reason it's not in a gun anymore, I like my guns to go bang EVERY time I pull the trigger! It made for a great trigger pull but the reliability wasn't there. Now I do like Mike suggested above and just use the JP red & yellow springs, the JP 'Enhanced Reliability Spring Kit'. Sounds very similar to the Ruger Blackhawk "poor man's trigger job", lifting one leg of the trigger spring off the pin. While it "works" on Blackhawks, it doesn't translate to other firearms.
Robocop1051 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Ray, if you do the '15 minute trigger job' you find in the online sites that involves cutting one leg of the hammer spring off don't be surprised if you start getting misfires! I know the articles usually say 'totally reliable' and 'no misfires at all' but that's bullschitt! I've got one of those modified springs lying around here somewhere and there's a reason it's not in a gun anymore, I like my guns to go bang EVERY time I pull the trigger! It made for a great trigger pull but the reliability wasn't there. Now I do like Mike suggested above and just use the JP red & yellow springs, the JP 'Enhanced Reliability Spring Kit'. I did this once as well. It hits fine on high end ammo, but the surplus stuff (with heavier primers) will sometimes take multiple hits before a bang. The ALG ACT with the JP yellow springs won't cost more than $75 if you shop around.
StainTrain Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 I did this once as well. It hits fine on high end ammo, but the surplus stuff (with heavier primers) will sometimes take multiple hits before a bang. The ALG ACT with the JP yellow springs won't cost more than $75 if you shop around. This. But let's cut the bull. If you hang around here long enough, you are going to end up with a DMR, SSA, SSA-E, SD3..... So why delay the inevitable. LOL.
crimsonfalcon07 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Ray, milspec triggers are surface hardened only and it doesn't take much to get through that hardening. Once that happens the triggers can develop wear to the point of being unsafe fairly quick. That's why you don't hear much about anything more than some light stoning on the stock triggers. This makes me wonder about just annealing and heat treating the parts. Presumably it's steel, and likely a relatively simple carbon steel, like the steel used in other parts. The swordmaker in me thinks that it would likely be relatively simple to check the surface hardness and match that with a good proper heat treat.
suzukiray Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Posted January 12, 2015 Thanks for the input guys! The safety factor I do understand & am also glad to know about the problems with the "Bent spring mod" misfires. I guess I WILL just have to break down & buy triggers. The racer machinist in me just keeps saying NO!! THERE HAS TO BE A WAY!!! LOL! Phuck you Tom & Dirk BOTH!! I know you are laughing & pointing at me!!! :) You 2 BOTH bring your a$$es up here & I will put both of you on one of the drag bikes & then we will see WHO gets fucked up & wants to find a new hobby!!! Same goes for all you other phuckers laughing at me knowing this would happen!! Lol!! Ray.
MikedaddyH Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Thanks for the input guys! The safety factor I do understand & am also glad to know aboupt the problems with the "Bent spring mod" misfires. I guess I WILL just have to break down & buy triggers. The racer machinist in me just keeps saying NO!! THERE HAS TO BE A WAY!!! LOL! Phuck you Tom & Dirk BOTH!! I know you are laughing & pointing at me!!! :) You 2 BOTH bring your a$$es up here & I will put both of you on one of the drag bikes & then we will see WHO gets fucked up & wants to find a new hobby!!! Same goes for all you other phuckers laughing at me knowing this would happen!! Lol!! Ray.Ray ,I have a rider that could handle any bike you could make. But she's a girl !
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