Firearms Definitions, and stupid fukkers...

[98Z5V]

Okay, so when you're searching out stuff, looking for parts, etc., and you read reviews...  How often does it bother you that you're reading something from a complete idiot?...

It bugs me greatly.  I hate to read a seemingly well written review, only to find someone fuk it up at the last minute, and show that they have no idea what they're talking about. 

My big thing recently is "reticule" when talking about scopes.  Literally, a "reticule" is a woman's handbag.  Yes, a woman's handbag...  Check it, you'll see what I'm talking about...

If you're gonna talk about a product, and put so much time into your review, to make me think you really believe in, or hate, this product - then fucking get smart about the terminology involved here.  Don't start telling me about how clear the glass is, how it got fuzzy at max magnification, because you never use max magnification for what you do, and how the mil-dots don't help you because you always hunt with a laser range finder - you bought the wrong scope, asshead, and your review is worthless.

But, for fuk's sake, don't lecture others on the "reticule" not being what you expected when you received it - you fucking ordered it, knowing what it was. 

You didn't order a woman's handbag, you dumbass...

What bothers you guys?...  Terminology-wise, so we kinda stick to the subject here... 

Edited May 3, 2017 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

Oh, and "AR-10" is fair game here...  

[Matt.Cross]

6 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Oh, and "AR-10" is fair game here...  

I'm definitely the "nomenclature asshole" about calling everything an AR-10 on other websites. There's usually a lot of 'hey, everyone knows what I meant' thrown around, until I point out that a Mustang and a Corvette are both sports cars, but you don't use them interchangeably. It's hip to be stupid I guess.....

[Robocop1051]

I hate when striker fired pistols are referred to as DAO. Even the manufacturers do it. 

[DNP]

I hate that Tom knew what a reticule was...and now I hate that I know. 

[survivalshop]

  Sometimes " Spell Check " can get you if you don't proof read your posts like you work for the Washington Post . 

 

  On the subject of the AR 10 , I really don't care ( but agree with its designation only because some parts are proprietary , see where that got Armalite ) , the original company that made the AR 10 has been gone for a long time , same as the actual AR designation , I really don't care who owns the rights to it , I call a CAR, BR, MR or what ever, an AR & don't feel bad about it one bit , if you don't like it , I still don't care .

[Sisco]

9 hours ago, Matt.Cross said:

I'm definitely the "nomenclature center of uranus" about calling everything an AR-10 on other websites. There's usually a lot of 'hey, everyone knows what I meant' thrown around, until I point out that a Mustang and a Corvette are both sports cars, but you don't use them interchangeably. It's hip to be stupid I guess.....

 Except a Mustang isn't a "sports car" to us Vette owners. We call them a "crowd control tool" As they are always running out of control into a bunch of innocent bystanders.

[Matt.Cross]

1 hour ago, Sisco said:

 Except a Mustang isn't a "sports car" to us Vette owners. We call them a "crowd control tool" As they are always running out of control into a bunch of innocent bystanders.

Well, that's the equivalent of how most of us feel about those RRA guys...

[Sisco]

35 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

Well, that's the equivalent of how most of us feel about those RRA guys...

Always good for a lively discussion!

[DNP]

Hey, Vlad the Impaler's second cousin Tom the Derailer has asked that this thread stay on topic....lol. 

[shepp]

5 hours ago, Matt.Cross said:

Well, that's the equivalent of how most of us feel about those RRA guys...

I was gonna say armilite ????

[jtallen83]

53 minutes ago, shepp said:

I was gonna say armilite ????

Hey now! We were minding our own business even though the misuse of "AR-10" is probably the most prevalent violation discussed, but then we understand why everyone would want to call their rifle an AR-10, everyone want to associate themselves with perfection

or what used to be anyway.............

[shepp]

17 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

Hey now! We were minding our own business even though the misuse of "AR-10" is probably the most prevalent violation discussed, but then we understand why everyone would want to call their rifle an AR-10, everyone want to associate themselves with perfection

or what used to be anyway.............

Not the fish I thought I'd catch but I'll take it??

[bubbas4570]

98Z5V WINS BEST THREAD TITLE OF THE YEAR!!!

 

.....or so I heard.....

 

 

[survivalshop]

  When you compare two almost exactly looking objects to one another & say this is this & this is that , no wonder there is confusion .

 The comparison between a ford or chevy is not a good comparison here , when you look at it , you basically have two of the same things , when you look at a ford Mustang & a Chevy Corvette , there are major differences in looks , they look nothing alike . Now compare aDPMS LR 308 to a Armalite rifles with the same furniture , whats the difference , a line at the back of the Receivers , thats it . That would be like comparing two exactly the same cars , be it a Corvette or Mustang & both made by different companies , be it Ford or Chevy , the only differences being one has a Spoiler & the other doesn't . They both look exactly alike , use the same Gas , Same Engine ( One might have solid lifters & the other Hydraulic , something you can not even see )  same Tires ( Armalite uses SR25/DPMS Mags ) the only difference in looks , performance , & that one has a spoiler & the other doesn't , but they are made by different Manufacturers . 

 Yes you will need different parts for the two , but both look exactly alike , we will use Corvette for an example of what they look like , now how are you going to tell me they are different , look at the designation badges of who made them , thats it , so it is easy for a person to describe one as the other , till you get to the Spoiler & Solid lifters , & thats what you have to ask , who made what & its easy to say this one needs this & this one needs that , they are both the Fuking same ! With minor & I mean Minor differences .

 I think there is a cult for the Armalite AR 10 & they keep this up almost like shaming you because you dare to call your 308AR an AR 10 !  I don't have a fish to fry in this , I like them all ( well some Manufacturers are not all that good ) I work on them all & enjoy them all , if they use a large frame , they can be called a AR 10 , if you ask me the Original AR 10 owners should be thrilled that others use this designation .

Edited May 4, 2017 by survivalshop

[Matt.Cross]

2 hours ago, survivalshop said:

  When you compare two almost exactly looking objects to one another & say this is this & this is that , no wonder there is confusion .

 The comparison between a ford or chevy is not a good comparison here , when you look at it , you basically have two of the same things , when you look at a ford Mustang & a Chevy Corvette , there are major differences in looks , they look nothing alike . Now compare aDPMS LR 308 to a Armalite rifles with the same furniture , whats the difference , a line at the back of the Receivers , thats it . That would be like comparing two exactly the same cars , be it a Corvette or Mustang & both made by different companies , be it Ford or Chevy , the only differences being one has a Spoiler & the other doesn't . They both look exactly alike , use the same Gas , Same Engine ( One might have solid lifters & the other Hydraulic , something you can not even see )  same Tires ( Armalite uses SR25/DPMS Mags ) the only difference in looks , performance , & that one has a spoiler & the other doesn't , but they are made by different Manufacturers . 

 Yes you will need different parts for the two , but both look exactly alike , we will use Corvette for an example of what they look like , now how are you going to tell me they are different , look at the designation badges of who made them , thats it , so it is easy for a person to describe one as the other , till you get to the Spoiler & Solid lifters , & thats what you have to ask , who made what & its easy to say this one needs this & this one needs that , they are both the Fuking same ! With minor & I mean Minor differences .

 I think there is a cult for the Armalite AR 10 & they keep this up almost like shaming you because you dare to call your 308AR an AR 10 !  I don't have a fish to fry in this , I like them all ( well some Manufacturers are not all that good ) I work on them all & enjoy them all , if they use a large frame , they can be called a AR 10 , if you ask me the Original AR 10 owners should be thrilled that others use this designation .

You managed to completely miss the point of the comparison, which should be very easy to catch. It's designation vs. brand, and in the gun world the difference matters, especially when you're purchasing from companies who know the difference. 

Name two cars of different brands that are so similar in appearance that they're used synonymously with each other.

We've already witnessed the problems that can arise from using the terms interchangeably, why would you want more of the same?

[DNP]

So let's really get deep. If every vehicle out there was called a Ford Ranger...no matter what sort of minivan or clown car it was....how would you ever get the right part?

 

oh no, you see where you went wrong was you bought the ford ranger exhaust manifold made by Pontiac....you need a Fiat Ford Ranger manifold or your not even going to be able to bolt it up. 

 

Serves you you right for buying from Fiat though. 

[ChaoticReason]

@survivalshop- You make some good points. To most people, one thing is as much the other as they want it to be. I mean I couldn't tell the difference between a '63 Pontiac Tempest and the '64 Buick Skylark if my life depended on it. But to people who KNOW, it's sometimes like a slap in the face if I call one the other, whether I intend to or not. I'm sure you've been around here long enough to know what I mean. ?

But to you gentlemen who do KNOW the difference, I want to thank you all for taking the time to explain to us who don't. I know that I, and others who don't know the differences, must really get on your nerves sometimes. It's must be like trying to explain to a liberal what an assult rifle really is! It must seem like you're a broken record sometimes, "No, AR does not mean that." "No, there is no gunshow loophole." All the stuff that if you spent anytime in this world, you would know, but they don't. 

Thank you for starting this thread 98Z5V! Thanks for helping us to get on the same page. Thank you. 

[COBrien]

Really surprised no one has mentioned "clips vs. magazines" or "bullets vs. cartridges vs. shells."

[98Z5V]

5 minutes ago, COBrien said:

Really surprised no one has mentioned "clips vs. magazines" or "bullets vs. cartridges vs. shells."

The (Not)Honorable Kevin DeLeon ruined us on all that... 

[survivalshop]

11 hours ago, survivalshop said:

look at the designation badges of who made them , thats it

    I see some didn't read so well , so I will spell it out , the differences or what part you need for what model or brand would be on its identification , just like a Registration number on a car . 

   When you go to order or buy a part for you car , don't you say what Make & Model & in most cases , year of manufacturer ( you will need that in the Armalite "A" & "B " Models ) So why do people on Forums & much worse on others , give the info on what is what , with a demeaning put down . 

     Why would someone get butt hurt because I called one of my 308ARs an AR 10 , why ? Its like they think they have something special , because the original Manufacturer made it first , WTF  that manufacturer is long gone , there is no difference between the Rifles or very very little  , except manufacturers & thats where the Parts designation is important , just like a ford or Chevy , sure you have hard core believers that one is better then the other , when in reality , they aren't . Thats the facts . 

    I think that those who think they have a better rifle are in a way pissed because there are so many manufacturers that make the AR in the 308 version & when they bought theirs , it was the only one on the block & now theirs is just another model out there . Its just a rifle , like many many others .

   What Manufacturer makes or has made the most AR rifles in 308 ?  

  If I made 10 million AR rifles in 308 & had 2 % returns for repair & someone else made 10 thousand & had 1 % returns for repair , which is the better Rifle ?   Your first thought is probably not correct .

 Just my opinion , if you get butt hurt , its your fault .

8 hours ago, Matt.Cross said:

Name two cars of different brands that are so similar in appearance that they're used synonymously with each other.

 

The comparison was hypothetical  , as far as cars .

You tell me you can't see the two Rifle brands are not nearly identical ? If so What is the difference , a cosmetic line in  the rear of the receiver ? You cant really see that till you get real close , not so with cars & trucks .

[Matt.Cross]

9 minutes ago, survivalshop said:

 If so What is the difference , a cosmetic line in  the rear of the receiver ? You cant really see that till you get real close , not so with cars & trucks .

"Cosmetic" is a cute term for it. Try putting a DPMS upper on an Armalite lower and you'll find that line is "functionally" different as well. Same goes for incompatible internals.

I'm not arguing that the two brands don't look similar, I'm arguing that similar appearances aren't a fantastic excuse for using misleading terminology.

There isn't any ambiguity or risk of misunderstanding if you simply use the manufacturer's designation.

[survivalshop]

25 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

"Cosmetic" is a cute term for it. Try putting a DPMS upper on an Armalite lower and you'll find that line is "functionally" different as well. Same goes for incompatible internals.

I'm not arguing that the two brands don't look similar, I'm arguing that similar appearances aren't a fantastic excuse for using misleading terminology.

There isn't any ambiguity or risk of misunderstanding if you simply use the manufacturer's designation.

  Hay , just about  every on line firearms manufacturer or store , is using the Term AR 10. We had a thread about that here somewhere & I think they use it to designate its difference in Calibers & Frame or Receiver size .Wrong , maybe , maybe not  , misleading ,yes .

 Its really not misleading terminology , people use AR 10 parts on DPMS ( among others ) & DPMS Parts on Armalite AR 10's with no issues , I certainly don't recommend it , as we have recorded dimensional differences with the two Branded BCG's on a Thread on this Forum  .

 Why would you put a DPMS Upper Receiver on a Armalite AR 10 Lower ? Some here have purchased the mismatched set ups & found out real quick ,they don't look right  they should have researched or asked about the Cosmetic differences , I have read where they will work , just don't look right .

  Don't get me wrong , I agree that the proper manufacturer should be used for parts identification  , just can't understand why some get so worked up about it . To me its Childish to say my car, gun , bike or what ever is better then yours .

  Before someone thinks , maybe I should buy a An Armalite AR 10 & I would feel the same way , al I got to say is bull$hit ! I would like to have one just because its another 308 , but I have enough ( yes I said I have enough rifles  ) & my POS DPMS rifles work just fine . 

Edited May 4, 2017 by survivalshop

[Matt.Cross]

I don't own either, Armalite or DPMS, I don't have a dog in the brand superiority fight. 

With regards to the online vendors who mislabel their wares, they have to deal with the dissatisfied customers, returns, and liabilities of misinforming folks.

Just because enough idiots are doing it doesn't mean it should be mainstream, or that it's not insensible. If anything is childish, it's an "everyone else does it so it must be OK" mindset.

People that get screwed over by online vendors don't generally go back to them for help, they come here to get information. If they get here and run into the same ambiguity and confusion, we've done them a disservice.

That's where I'm coming from, and to quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

[98Z5V]

5 hours ago, survivalshop said:

  Hay , just about  every on line firearms manufacturer or store , is using the Term AR 10. We had a thread about that here somewhere & I think they use it to designate its difference in Calibers & Frame or Receiver size .Wrong , maybe , maybe not  , misleading ,yes .

 Its really not misleading terminology , people use AR 10 parts on DPMS ( among others ) & DPMS Parts on Armalite AR 10's with no issues , I certainly don't recommend it , as we have recorded dimensional differences with the two Branded BCG's on a Thread on this Forum  .

 Why would you put a DPMS Upper Receiver on a Armalite AR 10 Lower ? Some here have purchased the mismatched set ups & found out real quick ,they don't look right  they should have researched or asked about the Cosmetic differences , I have read where they will work , just don't look right .

  Don't get me wrong , I agree that the proper manufacturer should be used for parts identification  , just can't understand why some get so worked up about it . To me its Childish to say my car, gun , bike or what ever is better then yours .

  Before someone thinks , maybe I should buy a An Armalite AR 10 & I would feel the same way , al I got to say is bull$hit ! I would like to have one just because its another 308 , but I have enough ( yes I said I have enough rifles  ) & my POS DPMS rifles work just fine . 

They are not educated, and I bet they get parts returns, or complaints.  You know, when parts don't fit.  Or work right.

You're whole argument SS, well, it IS the argument.  Look again at what you've typed above...

Just very recently, we had the whole diagnosis process of a guy with a rifle that's not performing.  It's pretty obvious to us that the wrong gas tube had been used.  We directly tell him - I directly told him - that he needs the real, genuine Armalite AR-10 gas tube.  THE Armalite AR-10 gas tube.  Guy goes to his "gunsmith" and says he needs an Armalite AR-10 gas tube.  Comes back, and tells us it's the exact same length as his other one.  NOT.  Wrong one.  WE give dimensions for said gastube.  He looks it up, orders it, and it fixes the issue.  He returns to his "gunsmith" and informs him of the differences, and the "gunsmith" says, "I had no idea they were different..."

Bingo.  Sold.  That's the difference. 

Throw that Ford 5.0 waterpump on your SBC.  It should fit, with sealant. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by 98Z5V